Doggo

Bartram BOG for mine. 100% effort and endeavour, as always, and disposal still poor at times, but overall a lot more comfortable backing his skills in at this level.

Impressed with Watts before he went off injured. Fluffed a couple of kicks early, but overall a classy performance on the wing.

Hughes was good again, looks a lot more versatile and well-rounded as a footballer these days. Gathered touches around the ground, good defensive pressure, and took some nice marks. Hurt his shoulder at one stage but came back on fine. Debut soon i think.

Whelan was just great, especially in the 2nd half. Way too good for this level.

PJ absolutely dominated the ruck duels; must have had at least 50+ hitouts (and i'm not exaggerating, he had around 20 at 1/4 time), but didn't get a whole lot of footy around the ground and had no influence when up forward. To be fair, very tough conditions for big guys.

McKenzie has great hands in close. A bit one-paced though, but shows promise. Had over 20 disposals today.

Bad luck for Valenti, hope he pulls up ok.

Thought Miller and Newton were just average against far inferior opposition, until their last quarter junk time goals, although conditions didnt suit them. Newton still makes some shocking brain-farts at times, and despite his 4 goals, doesn't look like an AFL player at this level.

Disappointed with Rohan Bail. Although he found more footy than usual today, was more often than not sub-par by both hand and foot. Misses lots of targets and doesn't stand out at this level at all. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if he was moved on at seasons end to be honest. Another honest battler at best.

They both are young and have shown enough in the early stages of development to be secure on the list. By playing Dunn & Bell (list managing), club can determine their future having played 45 & 63 games respectively.

Exactly.

As an aside, Valenti, Hughes (both rookies), and Bail (underwhelming mature-aged recruit), you'd think, will all get one final chance at some stage to consolidate their spot on the list before the year is out. Even if it's just for one or two games, the pressure will be huge for those 3.

That is huuuge!!!!!

Awesome news!

Get well Jim, we're all behind ya!

Just one change for me:

OUT: Sylvia (susp)

IN: Dunn

I'd really like for Watts to come straight back in, but i honestly can't see it happening. Had Hughes not missed last week, i'd have thrown his name in the mix too, but again very doubtful. Like titan_uranus, i'd also rather see a youngster than a 'has-been' get a gig, but i think now's the time for the FD to start weeding out those guys and giving final opportunities, so i can definitely see a Dunn, Bell or even Newton playing.

Bell would be unlucky to miss after his BOG performances recently, but Dunn for Sylvia is more of a like-for-like selection as mid/forwards, and Dunn has been consistently as good as Bell in the VFL. Not sure what role we'd have for Belly if he were selected. Not that i rate Dunn, but i think he's more likely to stay on next year than Bell.

Agree with those who think Morton looks like he could use a rest, but also can't see that happening.

I know i'll be alone on this one, but i wouldn't mind seeing PJ come back in for the 2nd ruck spot, so we can settle Martin in the forward line for 4 quarters. Doubt it will happen, PJ would probably need to string a few great games together before coming back.

Rhino, I take issue with that description of Robertson, particularly from someone who has followed the MFC as long as your username suggests you have. You're not a 14 year old kid. No matter what you or anyone else thinks of Robertson, his form or his future, his contribution to the MFC entitles him to more respect than you show him with that description.

Just a couple of things you might have missed. Over 200 games. Over 400 goals. A B&F.

I hope you ignored the request to wear your Melbourne jumper last Saturday because you would [censored] disgrace it.

Good call GTB.

Option 3 for me.

I doubt that. And since when did Cats fans have a say in that.

The Cats rated Moloney so highly that they got rid of him to get a part of premiership ruckman. The Cats won hands down with this. We are still waiting on the payback for pick 12 understanding Beamers crud run of OP.

Just saw this now. So let me get this straight Rhino, you doubt that the Cat's fans I know rate him as "one that got away"? Aren't you clever, knowing what my Cat supporter mates think? You really do "know it all".

Right...

You doubt that? So you're calling Doggo a liar basically. And where did Doggo say Cats fans make the decisions?

What a stupid thing to say mate.

Firstly, what did we give away for Beamer? Pick 12. Guess who went at pick 12. Danny Meyer who was delisted by the Tigers and is now a fringe player at Port (We took the Master at 13 FWIW).

We gave up a pick that would not have benefited us in the long run for a guy who bleeds for the club and is a potential captain. Geelong on-traded the pick to Richmond for Geelong, it isn't like we were the ones who gave up Ottens.

Everytime someone intimates that Geelong were loathed to get rid of Moloney you play the role Lord Killjoy III.

Have a few Geelong friends, they love the way Moloney goes about his footy. Wish they could have figured out another way but understand it helped them win a flag.

What they said ^

Kyle Matthews for mine. He has an intesity level that AFL recruiters dream of. Like the Energizer bunny on Speed! Just a tad too short and light for AFL, but all guts.

And l don't mind the look of Stockdale. A little nugget of a bloke, he looks like he would've got the nickname "Stocky" even if his surname wasn't Stockdale. Goes hard and uses the ball well. Not AFL material IMO, but great value in the VFL.

Doggo, I think it's 6 weeks on crutches then 6-8 in the moon boot (or other way around), so I assume it's due off soon

Thanks for that Roger.

Danny Hughes was a massive melbourne supportet, i remember talking to him about it a few weeks ago. He also mentioned he still has a photo with him and jim stynes from when he was just a kid up around the house!

I've been a big advocate of Danny getting a game soon. Knowing that he was a MFC supporter prior to being drafted, now i really really hope, more than ever, that he gets his chance to don the red and blue before the season is out. He's been on the rookie list for 3 of the last 4 years, c'mon Bail's... give him his debut!

Even if he doesn't make it, at least he'll be able to say he played a game for the club he's always loved! A story for the grandkids...

So Danny Hughes should be set for a return from an adductor strain for Casey this week then? Time is running out fast for young Dan, hope he gets his chance soon.

201cm.

He's grown

Will be the best follow up ruckman in the game because of his agility. Not sure how much further he'll go.

Could probably add another 4 or 5 cm with that hair!

I really enjoyed our long goals on the weekend - it's been a while.

Bate's 2 from outside 50 as well as Green's, Jones' and Sylvia's running goals, made us look far more dangerous.

Same. It's been such a long time since we had that many great long goals in a game, was really fantastic. We kicked incredibly straight too, only 2 or 3 behinds to 3/4 time i think.

How good was Green's first goal??? I went bezerk after that, 4 (or was it 5?) bounces, with a man hot on his tail, and the classy finish. And an awesome fist-pumping celbration... shivers down the spine!

After watching the team enjoy singing the team song. l started to wonder which players grew up supporting Melbourne ?

their are three that l no of

1 Simon Buckley

2 Brent Moloney

3 Jack Grimes

I don't know of any others, but it's likely there might be one or two more on the list.

It's a romantic notion, but i love the idea of kids who grew up barracking for the team they're eventually drafted to. I suppose, it's very much a way of living vicariously through them. The three guys you listed above are literally living my dream!

Call me sentimental, but that in itself is enough for me to support them just that little bit harder, and feel for them that much more when things aren't going their way. For this reason, i hope Buck's can get his body right and have a good year next year, or at least a red-hot crack, and not die wondering. How shattered would u be, getting drafted to the club that you've supported your whole life, only to not make it because of a horror run with injury?

That's almost as bad as when the Hawks traded Trent Croad, who grew up a passionate Hawks supporter, to Freo. Actually, that's like my ultimate dream (playing for the club u grew up supporting) mixed with my worst nightmare (playing for Freo). Luckily for him, they got him back and he won a flag with them... Some stories are just meant to be i guess

Well that the thing isnt it.. Newton has all the atributes, just not the history.

Sorry BB59 to hijack this thread into another Newton discussion, but, I've been doing a lot of thinking about Newton recently, and had a great discussion with a mate the other day about him, and what it takes to make it as a key forward in modern footy. I don't think Newton does have all the attributes. He has some 'nice' parts to his game, but is lacking the major fundamentals to being a good AFL key forward. He's the icing and the cherry on top, minus the cake.

He's tall, he can jump (boy, can he), and can take a big pack mark as long as he gets a clear run at the footy. He's got good hands. He's shown his goal sense is generally good. He's at his best when he's 10-15m behind a pack, running at full pace toward it, with some space on his man, i.e. no-one blocking his run. But what else has he got?

Well, he's improved his defensive side, which he copped a lot of criticism for in the past. And his attitude and team-play has also improved out of sight this year. So why isn't he cracking a game, considering all the improvements he's made, plus the fact that he consistently kicks goals for Casey, and that we're crying out for another key position forward to take the reigns from Robbo? Brad Miller has gone backwards in that regard, so why no love from the FD for Juice?

IMO, the areas most lacking in his overall package, and basically that which is stopping him from having the same impact at AFL level that he has at VFL level, are: lack of speed and endurance (or perhaps work-ethic?) on the lead, and a lack of upper body strength in one-on-one contested situations.

Now i'm no expert, but if i know one thing about modern AFL footy, it's this: as a forward, you need to be able to do more than just take a pack mark with an unimpeded run and jump, and get the occassional ground level goal. At VFL level, where the game is slower and the bodies not as strong, it might work a treat. But at AFL level that style of play is largely hit-and-miss.

Good forwards in the AFL need to be able to get on their bikes and make several, hard and intelligent repeat leads. Think Riewoldt, Richo, Franklin. I've never seen Newton, in my time watching for Melbourne, Casey and Sandy, display any sort of real speed on the lead, or the work-ethic and endurance to make several, hard, repeat leads. Often these leads aren't just about getting the ball, but about moving defenders and opening space for your fellow forwards. More often than not, Newton prefers to be the old-style 'stay-at-home' forward, calling for the ball to be kicked long, high and on his head, despite being outnumbered by zoning defenders. Might have worked in the 80's and 90's, but that style of play isn't going to cut it these days.

The most effective way to beat numbers and find space inside the crowded forward 50's of the modern game is to be constantly on the move. Robbo, despite all his defensive flaws (and like Newton, his love for the ball to be kicked on his head), is actually a great exponent of this part of forward line movement. He's constantly moving in and out of dangerous spaces, presenting up and doubling back, creating doubt in his defenders mind, and space for others, drawing defenders to and from the footy. Newton hasn't shown any great ability or forward smarts to do that yet.

But hard, repeat leading is just one (important) aspect of modern forwardline play.

To be fair, not every KPF needs to have the speed and endurance of a Nick Riewoldt, Richo or Buddy on the lead to be effective. There are other ways to succeed as a key forward at the highest level. If, like Newton, you aren't the greatest 'lead-up' forward, then you need to excel in another important area; one-on-one/body-on-body, contested marking. In other words, you need to be strong! Guys like Daniel Bradshaw, J Roughead or Kurt Tippett, not the quickest or best lead-up forwards, but exceptionally strong in the upper body, are perfect examples of this. They thrive on the physical side of marking contests and the "tests of strength". Newton struggles with this side of AFL footy more than any other area IMO. After 4 seasons on an AFL list, his body still looks immature and he's nowhere near strong enough to play as the body-on-body type. Yet he calls for the ball in contested situations more than he leads out to present. I know we'd all hope that Jack Watts' body is more developed by that stage of his career (age 21-22).

The real 'elite' forwards have the ability to do both; lead hard and repeatedly, AND use their body strength in one-on-one situations: Riewoldt, Richo, Fev, Lloyd, J Brown, Buddy, Roughead etc. The 'good' forwards generally can do one of the two really well, and the other at least adequately.

Newton is barely adequate in both areas. Add to that his erratic kicking, and the lack of opportunity he's been given at the top level suddenly looks a lot more justified.

Unfortunately for Juice, unless he can put some serious muscle on in the next pre-season, or can gain an extra yard in pace and a bigger engine, he's always going to be too limited a player to succeed at AFL level, IMO. Everyone wants a 194cm key forward who jumps on the head of packs and takes huge screamers. But what good is that if he can't lead well, isn't strong or fast, and is about as reliable a shot for goal as Richo on a bad day? Not much if you ask me.

Newton--> a classic case of 'good @VFL, wanting @AFL'.

Loved his game on the weekend, and have really appreciated his efforts so far this year. I honestly hope he pushes Daniel Rich right to the finish for it.

Does anybody know how garlands rehab is going? will he be ready for pre-season or do we have a luke egan on our hands?

Walked past Garlo at the U18 Championships last week. Didn't get a chance to speak to him, so i can't really comment on how his rehab is going, but i did notice that he's still wearing a moon-boot on his injured foot.

I'm not really in the know regarding rehabilitation for stress fractures, would anyone who might be better informed have any idea when that moon-boot would be/is due to come off? Considering he had surgery on it after round 1, some 13 or so weeks ago, am i right in assuming it would be soon?

To me there seems to be three distinct camps - there's the "we're doomed if we win more than 4" group; the "one top draft pick won't win us a flag" exponents; or the “I don’t care about draft picks as they are not the be all and end all and I want my team to win every week they play”.

....

Having said all that, I can’t possibly criticize those supporters that crave a win every week despite the draft consequences. I just don’t agree. This is it though. I can’t go through one more year wanting anything other than a victory.

Great post H, spot on.

Casey must be very popular with the VFL ATM. They feature in the next three Saturday telecasts on ABC1.

Great news for Dee's supporters who can't/don't/won't make the trip down to Cranbourne to watch them play.

Bulldogs might bite, maybe. Their lack of a true power KPF has held them back from really threatening in finals for a few years now. I wouldn't be surprised if they showed interest. Although i wouldn't be surprised if they (or anyone else) didn't.

He's a nut. Great footballer, but absolute lunatic, and on the wrong side of 30. I'm not sure how clubs will react.

I guess i'm just glad he won't be considered by us, Bail's has done a great job getting the culture at our club back on track.

I'm not a fan of Dunn at all, but i think it would be fair to give him a go in the role Sylvia's been playing for the next 3 weeks.

His form at VFL level has been consistently good, but he's never even shown a shadow of that form in the AFL; he's the classic VFL-AFL in-betweener.

Give him 3 weeks and let him know, it's a "now-or-never" scenario for him. If he's good enough, he'll step up during that time and bridge the gap between his VFL and AFL form. Statistically speaking, an average of around 20 disposals, 6 marks and a goal a game (numbers we've rarely seen from him at AFL level) during those 3 weeks would probably be enough for him to get a final chance next year as a 22(?) year old. Anything less, and it's time to start planning for life after footy for Lynden.

My point is that we can lose some of the senior players from our midfield and defence, because there are young guys who have either stepped up already (Grimes, Frawley) or will step up at some time over the next 12 months (Morton, Cheney). And enough experienced players will remain in midfield & defence so they don't have to take the major responsibilities until they're ready for it.

But KPF is not the same. I'd love it if Jack & Stef, for example, started ripping it up as KPFs before the end of this season (though not ripping it up enough for us to win more than 2, obviously) - nice fantasy, but not going to happen. OK, maybe preseason comp 2010 - highly unlikely. Or 2010 season - possible, but probably still too early.

I want Robbo to help keep the pressure off these young guns until we know they're ready to take it. I'm happy to concede that Robbo staying on may not contribute much to team performance, but it's making a substantial contribution to team building. Not the ideal situation, but I'd hate for Jack's career to be seriously damaged by having his body & confidence smashed because we let Robbo go before Jack was ready to take on the No.1 defender each week.

Just don't see why we should risk unnecessarily sacrificing a great young player just because some have major grudges against Robbo, even if they have good reasons for those grudges.

I think you make some great points. I'm still very much sitting on the fence regarding whether Robbo should play on next year or not. Part of me is in agreeance with the keeping Robbo as "protection" for JW, LJ and Stef stance. If he's taking the best defender every week, then that's a huge plus to having him around, and i think it will definitely aid in the development of those young fellas. As long as he can continue playing decent footy this year and finish with around 35+ goals, then you'd think he'd get an extra year. Obviously, how well he plays will dictate the quality of his opponent.

I love Robbo and have followed his career for 10 years. I think he has been (and still is) a wonderful part of our club and a joy to watch.

For this reason, I want him to retire at year's end, on his terms and while he is still performing well.

I would hate for him to spend his last year in and out of the team. He is so much better than being labelled a 'list clogger'.

Let him play out the year, give him the farewell match he deserves, and he can retire on a high. He deserves nothing less!

The other part of me is in the "retiring gracefully" camp, as outlined by Jaded (quoted above).

As it stands, i'm 50/50 on the whole situation. Whether or not Robbo gets a gig next year, to me, is totally dependant on him being able to play regular decent footy for the remainder of this season. More games like Saturdays will sway me towards keeping him on. More games like his performances against Collingwood and Essendon, and i'm all for farewelling old Russ.

Funnily enough, i think Brad Miller (and to a lesser extent, Newton) plays a big part in Robbo's future too. If he can step up and hold down the FF position deep in the attacking 50, then the need for Robbo in 2010/11 is greatly lessened. Unfortunately, Millsy hasn't been in the best of form and is currently out of favour, and playing him deep is something we've tried in the past with mixed results. After 100+ games, he's at the stage of his career where he'll take over from Robbo, if he's good enough. That seems doubtful at this stage though. If he only he were a natural goalkicker...

Demon Brownlow table

Certainties

Colin Sylvia

Aaron Davey

Brad Green

Brent Moloney

5th spot up for grabs in the last 8 weeks.

Like me, I know you're not his biggest fan, but you'd think Bruce would get an invite, wouldn't he?

Martin really is a remarkable player and his ability to learn and adapt so quickly is amazing. Hopefully that ability will transfer to his kicking.

(I was very pleased to see him convert his second attempt at goal!)

Agree. At his rate of improvement, by his mid-late 20's we could have a real superstar on our hands! Very smart and adaptable, i've said it many times before, but he could be anything! Even his ruckwork has improved over the last 2 weeks, and he's spent very little time on that.

Like the look of him up forward, but his kicking is really a concern. He has no particular set routine for his set shots; sometimes he stutters in, other times he pokes, sometimes his run-up is long, other times he only takes about 5 steps, etc etc. It's definitely something i'd like to see the coaching staff spending a lot of time with him on.

You can generally tell when a player is being coached in goal kicking as they'll be consistent with their routine. Stef's routine suggests to me that they haven't spent a long time working on it with him. Watch all the good forwards in the league and you'll see they all have a solid routine. Josh Mahoney & co, spend some time teaching the man how to kick for goal!!!!!

Once he gets that down pat, he'll be a very dangerous target.