Vipercrunch

I've decided to live in my own little world of make believe where all our football related decisions in the last few years would have been made exactly the same if there was no such thing as Priority Picks and the draft order was unrelated to ladder psition. Therefore, I will be able celebrate any future sucess with a clear mind.

One thing that does concern me with all the tanking talk and the events of yesterday is how the playing group feel. If they are getting told internally that we are playing to win, but because of the public attention and the "player management" going on begin to question things, can there be a respect issue with the coach. The players were either great actors, or were totally devastated by the loss yesterday. Could they now feel that Bailey isn't on their side and that he deliberately manufactured the loss? Can this cause long term trust issues?

Some will say the players aren't paid to think etc etc, but I think that is a little bit simplistic.

Freak stays clueless.

The only way you can get away with calling someone else clueless is if you publically state you were joking with you hissy fit about Sylvia playing for Casey. I *think* you were joking, but if you are going to have a crack at Freak, then perhaps you better come clean.

My one word answer to the title question is "passion".

The difficulty with the lead poll question is the word "sole". If you had said "major reason" then I would have voted for it.

I want MFC to win a flag, and soon. In the meantime, I'm enjoying the passion when it comes. Winning for Jimmy earlier this year was a passionate experience. Coming back to beat Freo last year was great passion! Beating the Bulldogs with a monster goal by Jeff White from a boundary ruck free kick, and putting them out of the finals was a very passsionate win. Coming from behind to beat Carlton in a final (when was it?) was an incredibly passionate game. There are lots of passionate memories. Not all associated with winning. Being at Waverley in 1987 was my most passionate experience following Melb. Bitter passion.

I'm guessing the one greater passionate experience, that will relegate that 1987 finals experience off top spot will be winning our next flag. I want to be at least 5 goals up half way through the last quarter, so that we can absolutely savor those last 15 minutes. The siren going and our song playing and the MCG erupting in blue and red will be brilliant, on that sunny last Saturday in September. Will there be a bit of a let-down feeling afterwards? Like, we've got to the top. Goal achieved. Dunno. That's new territory for me. But in case there is, I intend milking the passion of our grand final game for all it's worth.

OK I voted c. Mainly to do with the wording. My absolute hope is to win not one but a whole string of flags. But if MFC never win another flag in my lifetime, I will still be pleased that I have followed the Demons. And invested so much passion in them. It has been worth every magic moment.

That will do me heartbeatstrue. I wish I could have expressed it like that.

The golfing analogy was directly followed by the paragraph containing "If you enter the 'Premiership Season' your sole ambition should be to win it", which is why I queried it. The analogy that I would prefer is the one you used about a young golfer entering tournanments to gain experience with the hope/dream/ambition to win one in the future. The golfer takes up professional golf with the ambition to win tournaments, but there would be stages in every career where a tournament is more about gaining experience, points, ranking etc etc than winning them.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't gel with the "sole ambition" part of the question. I follow football for several reasons, one of which is to see the MFC win a premiership.

If it became 100% clear the MFC was so disadvantaged behind other clubs that we would never win a Premiership, I would still follow them. If I found out I had 12 months to live, I would still follow them.

Ironically, one of the only reasons that would stop me from following them would be if they blatantly cheated (and I don't mean tanking). If they were so single-minded in their pursuit of a Premiership that they put players on drugs/steroids/blood doping or they willfuly and repeatedly breached the salary cap, then I would stop following them.

So you disagree with H's golf analogy then rpfc?

Time will tell Jack, time will tell...

Hopefully we get a decent run with injuries - we're due for it!

Damn straight we are.

It's a given that on-going participation is non-negotiable. The word existence is in the poll for a reason. The sole purpose for competing in a competition that rewards the victor with an award is the award itself. Otherwise why enter the competition ? Why keep on fronting up ?. It's called the "Premiership Season" for a reason. Why does a golfer enter a tournament ? Many famous golfers have often said that if they didn't think they could win a tournament then they wouldn't enter it.

And each year is a separate year. How long does an AFL licence run ? If you enter the 'Premiership Season' your sole ambition should be to win it. Everything else is a subsidiary for your reason of having the club enter this competition.

H, HT, others? Please explain this. Did we enter 2008 and 2009 with the SOLE ambition to win the Premiership in those years?

Most of those example are for players that wanted to leave and some could have left for nothing if the deal couldn't be done. Therefore the club losing the player most often gets a bad deal.

I didn't answer (A) because of the one word - "sole". The doesn't mean I don't think it should be one of the primary aims, but I can't agree that winning Premierships should be the one and only aim. Being so single-minded in such things opens you up to cheating. Jack Elliot wanted a Premiership so he cheated the salary cap to get one.

And H, I very much doubt Melbourne made Winning the 2008 and 2009 Premierships their sole ambition. Does that mean we should have forfeited?

Nice post Akum.

This is getting more and more complex.

From what I understand, GC17 will play in the VFL next year, so we will get plenty of chances to see him in action. I hope it works out well, but the mechanics behind it intrigue me.

On a serious note....can they just sign him as a zoned player?, he doesnt need to go in draft?

I am after an answer to this question myself.

Did the overflow of emotion regarding Jimmy Stynes have anything to do with winning a Premiership? If the sole purpose of a football club is Premierships, then surely the club should have quietly moved him on, brought the next person in and continued head on towards the goal. Why waste energy on it if it doesn't bring us closer to our "sole" purpose?

AFL clubs and sport in general is about a hell of a lot more than just reaching the ultimate sucess IMO.

What the hell are some people on about?!

...

Harden up, and get your priorities in order...

I just had to laugh at this post.

The reaction to QBW loss was big in the media also. From several weeks of most media people singing our praises for our "honourable losses", they turned on us hard. It was from one extreme to the other. The hype the club created was partly to blame for this. If a club goes hard to hype something up, it is imperative the players turn up to play or the knives come out.

If he kicked all the easy ones, he would be easily averageing 2-3 a game, and would have a few bags of 4+. There have been comparisons made in previous threads between him and Hawkins. I am of the view that Newton would kick more goals if he was in Geelongs forward line than Hawkins does, and that is if he still missed the occasional easy one.

For me, following football is a entertainment past-time. I refuse to judge the sucess and failure of my team simply by premierships. I hope we win them. I expect it is one of the ultimate aims of the club, but I won't treat it as a failed season when we don't. I can handle short term pain for long term gain, but I expect the pursuit of a premiership to be done ethically.

So no, I don't believe the sole purpose of a football club can be be to win premierships but it has to be one of the primary reasons. The members need to be looked after. The financial stabilty needs to be considered.

Supporters with the same view as Hannibal would struggle following English Soccer, as only 4 teams have any chance to win. The strange thing to consider is even teams that rarely even make the top league still have thousands of loyal and passionate financial members.

Edit: I just had a closer look at Torp's posts. Very good arguments.

I voted Yes. I do however think that it might take a switch of clubs to get him motivated enough to get to the standard. The good old "change of scenary" and "needed the reality check" sort of thing. I wouldn't be surprised if one day he kicks a bag against Melbourne, but I would prefer him to be kicking them for us.

I spent a couple of hours today reading through all the 'tanking' threads that popped up here while I was away this week.

I think I am far too conflicted on the issue to compose a post that wont contradict itself from one sentence to the next. I don't think I will waste my energy attempting to argue for one side or the other. I would make a mockery of it.

But I will say a couple of things. I thought for the most part it was the same old arguments I've read all this season with the weekly dose of priority pick/tanking threads. I'm sure there will be more and more of them over the coming weeks. I think the arguments go round in circles and nobody gives any ground. In the end though, it doesn't matter what we think or hope for. It's in the clubs hands.

I've had a foot in both camps for pretty much the whole season. I can't help it. I can't go to games hoping to lose, willing against my club, especially such a young group giving their all. I guess I am logically crippled by the immediate passion for the contest.

At the same time, the thought of adding both Scully and another quality youngster leaves me a little breathless. I think the club has a great opportunity before it. Whether we take advantage of it remains to be seen.

All I know is the system stinks. No supporter group should be put through this anxiety and compromise.

I think there is one thing that is true. And that is, if we haven't drafted well over the recent years, adding Scully won't make a lick of difference. If we have botched 2007 and 2008 and don't draft well in the upcoming draft, getting Scully won't win us a flag. Drafting and list development isn't merely a matter of cherry picking the top youngsters, it's about drafting well deep into drafts. This is what we have to have done and do. From what I have seen of our recent draft picks so far, I am optimistic about our future and believe in the coming years we will look back at these recent drafts with praise, and I have no doubt adding Scully and another young talent will only make the chances of the club winning the elusive 13th flag a firmer reality.

But in the end, we need a premiership quality list, not merely a few premiership quality players.

It's a little late, but I wanted to add that this sums up my feelings also. Logically (and morally to some extent) crippled.

I hope we get what most people think we deserve in the Priority Pick. I shudder to imagine the response from some people here if we get out tanked by other less deserving teams.

For me it was the injuries to Aussie and Garland and to a lesser extent Blease and Strauss. After the seasons Aussie and Garland had last year, I was very keen to see them progress. I can only hope that they can hit the pre-season hard and show us where they are at in 2010.

Very impressive win, with kudos definetely going to German. The next few weeks sound like they will be tough, but hopefully some of the injured players make returns and we stay in the top 4. Once the finals are here, several of the Melbourne players can come back. Casey have a great chance of having a good finals series.

Those posters who want to keep senior players, tell me, WHO WOULD YOU DELIST TO MAKE SUFFICIENT SPOTS AVAILABLE FOR THE DRAFT(S). Given that we will probably want between 6 and 7 spots and that Newton and Bell and I believe Dunn are contracted next year. Who do you say goodbye to.

Good point. There are going to be some really tough calls made at the end of this year. For that reason I think we may end up only freeing up 6 at the most spots. One spot could go to one rookie (Mackenzie would be my choice) and the others all used in the draft up to around the 4th round. It's going to be very interesting.

Given we had 8 changes last week out of nowhere, there is every chance there will be more unexpected changes this week. The "must plays" are Jordie, Cheney, Newton, Bennell, Jetta, and Valenti unless we need to give them more games with Casey to qualify for the VFL finals.

Hughes and perhaps even Spencer and Buckley would be useful inclusions to continue giving young players experience.