Vipercrunch

100x this. We all knew it was a blight on the game and went against everything the AFL claimed to be doing to protect the head when Selwood started doing. Now kids have grown up practicing and perfecting the “art”. Gutless by the AFL. Unfortunately no one is surprised.

Being 10-0 and 2 games clear of everyone else gave us the opportunity to go harder than any one else. The Cats were 6-4 so they couldn’t go as hard as us (despite Scott saying they were risking making the finals).

I’m not an expert so hopefully others who are better qualified also chime in. All physical work done when fatigued has increased risk of injury, and the main side effect of loading is fatigue. So, absolutely, it is a risky proposition, but when done by professional athletes with all the sports science that brings, those risks are mitigated. GPS records distance and pace run during games and training sessions. Strict recovery processes would be enforced. Massage. Diet and hydration. Proactive reporting of all niggles. And I’m sure there’s other things done to mitigate the risks. Each individual player would also being doing their unique program depending on their age and fitness profile (Trac vs Langdon vs Gawn etc etc). We have had more injuries this year than last year, but still very few sort tissue injuries, so compared to our past years and other clubs currently, it appears we are in good hands with our current fitness and medicos.

This is all pure speculation but.... During the H&A season last year, I think we needed some wins against top sides to prove to the players and coaches that our system stacked up. However much trust and faith there was in what we were doing, there also had to be some doubt, doubt that wins against certain oppenents would quell. I think this could have led us to set ourselves from a training load point of view for some games at the loss of some potential longer term fitness gains we could of had. In amongst our poor losses to lowly sides, we also had some strong wins against some very good sides. This year, post premiership and the confidence that brings, there are no lingering doubts. There is strong belief based on what happened last September that our best will beat anyone. This means the team can stick more rigidly and umcompromisingly to their loading plan, believing that the footy IQ on the coaching staff combined with the primed fitness and talent of the playing group will put us in the best position to go back-to-back in September. The risk of belief and confidence however is that it can very lead to arrogance, selfishness and complacency, which the leaders on and off the field will have to be constantly vigilant against. Reminder, that is all pure speculation.

If a club is utterly convinced loading is vital to them winning everything, then they will be prepared to miss the Top 4 and back themselves to be able to win 4 in a row. And I agree, I think Melbourne under Goodwin and still influenced by Darren Burgess fit into that category. Personally, I agree with that stance, and think we’ll begin to see it happen more frequently in the coming years. My confidence about Melbourne this year won’t waver if we don’t make top 4 unless we have injuries to multiple key players which no amount of loading can help.

Going back a bit here @coach, but I’m curious how long athletes can maintain peak performance? In other words, in an ideal world, how far out from preliminary final weekend would a team want to finish loading? I say ideal world because every team will act according to their ladder position and what significance they place on finishing top 2, top 4 or just happy to make the finals. Last year we won the last 4 rounds but it’s hard to draw too much from those results with much confidence of what was happening. We smashed the Suns but it was the last minute change of fixture and they had dialled it in for the year. Then we beat WCE but they finished much stronger after the lightning strikes. Then a solid win over Adelaide but they were also cooked. Then the wonderful after the siren win against Geelong. Very hard to definitively draw any conclusions about that.

One thing some are missing is that many of us that are strong on loading being very significant right now are not doing it in hindsight, rather they have predicted well before the event that we would be in the middle of a poor stretch of form and results right now. @binman especially was very open and clear before the season started that we would have another mid-season slump. I predicted that we'd play poorly and only win 2 out of the 5 games post bye in a prediction thread. It's not a case of making excuses after the fact "to help us sleep better" as several have repeatedly accused. Also, seriously, are people really losing sleep right now about dropping some games in June/July???

They pay those as head high frees all the time. Stiff, like when a player trips into an oncoming oppenents knee, but they stll pay them. No one would blink an eye if it happend in the second quarter. And, waaaaay more there than the one McCluggage got earlier when he got tackled fairly but threw his head back and the umpired guessed.

Neither side of the loading debate is going to concede anything until the season is over, (and even then many won’t). And why do you care about what “narrative” is being created? Do you think the opinions shared on a forum such as this affects what happens in the field?

Stop sitting on the fence. Did last nights loss concern you or not?

Not bothered by the loss but the manner of the losses concern you??? Seriously try and make some sense.

The reason I didn’t address it because it’s been addressed so well by others on these forums in the past, but to sum it up for you, our game plan relies enormously on our ability to cover the ground both defensively to create turnovers and then going forward to create scores. No other teams relies on it as much as we do. And if we are fatigued we can’t execute our game plan and become very beatable by good teams (and not so good teams.). Fatigue also creates poor decision making, poor skill execution, lack of power to break tackles, and I could go on and on. I don’t accept it’s an effort issue. Or complacency. Or tactical. Last year is absolutely a valid comparison because the science behind our fitness preparation hasn’t changed. There are lots of other variables of course but the facts are in order to give ourselves the best chance to succeed in September, we have to risk our performance in June and July. If we play it too safe, teams that were willing to risk more now will steam roll us come finals. Loading is 100% necessary but it’s also not a silver bullet. My “blind hope” as you put it comes because I trust our coaches aren’t taking anything for granted. They now have the track record of taking care of the big picture (loading) while also identifying all the 1% issues that need addressing. Always, (win, lose or draw), looking at ways to improve. Always respecting the competition and opposition. They have been the constant theme of Godwin’s press conferences. My blind and naive hope is because our football department has earned my trust.

I get it. You’re a pessimistic hand wringer and feel more comfortable thinking we will fail. You do you. I’ll do me. We’ll find out in 2 months who had a better read on our current circumstances.

Here's some 2021 post bye facts for those that seem to be looking at 2021 with September colourled glasses on. Round 15 - Held off Essendon by 11 points, 57-68. https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3108#match-report Round 16 - Beaten by GWS by 9, 55-64. https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3100#match-report Round 17 - Our best game and win for this period, a 31 point win over Port Adelaide at their home ground, 55-86. https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3125#match-report Round 18 - After leading by 27 points midway through the second term, we finish with a draw with Hawthorn, 79-79. https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3123#match-report Round 19 - The Bulldogs get revenge for round 11 to beat us 65-85. https://www.afl.com.au/afl/matches/3159#match-report Our avergae score for this period was 70.6 (2021 season avergae was 85.8) Our avergae score against this period was 68 (2021 season avergae was 65.6) Interestingly, despite that 5 week record (6 if you include the 2021 QB loss to Collingwood 63-80), in the press conference after the Round 19 loss to WBD, when asked about our scoring, Simon Goodwin said "I'm not worried one bit", "We sit here confident", and in regards more generally to how the team was going, he said "I think we're pretty close. As a footy club we're not far away." and "We're certainly not going to jump at shadows." https://www.afl.com.au/news/652025/-not-worried-one-bit-goodwin-upbeat-on-dees-scoring-woes https://www.afl.com.au/video/653832/full-post-match-demons?videoId=653832&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1627133400001

Last time I went there (that horrible thumping on a miserable night in 2019) I was stunned that they had the loudspeaker playing a clap and cheering track after their goals. It was a packed house and they still needed to artificially create an atmosphere.

I think we go back to the forward balance we had for the second half of last year and start of this year and bring in another genuine talk forward. In - whoever earns it tomorrow out of Weeds, Mitch Brown or JVR Out - Bedford (love him but still needs to work on some key things)

Frustrating game to watch and as a Geelong resident, I hate losing it, but very predictable result. We’ve still got 3 weeks of sluggish stuff to come before we begin to taper. You either believe the Brisbane game was a fluke and tonight was the true measure of our team, or you believe Brisbane was a taste of what we can do when we don’t have the loading shackles on. I know what I believe and tonight’s result doesn’t worry me in the slightest.

We’re still 8 weeks away from the business end of the season so if they are peaking now they have totally stuffed their timing and should fire their fitness staff.

There's a lot of talk in the media about our supposedly struggling forward line and ability to score, one of the latest examples is this discussion between Tim Watson and Garry Lyon (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/07/04/the-only-major-concern-lingering-for-melbourne-ahead-of-finals/). And I, as much as the next MFC supoorter, would love to see us kick more goals from more traditional methods (lead and mark or contested marks by big key forwards), but I also suspected that this was just more of the media having selective memory about what we did in 2021. The numbers speak for themselves.

Is apparent bravery a way to now get away with obvious front on contact? Happened numerous times against Frittata on Thursday and Tarrant just then got away with one.

I’m really hoping today is the day the sycophants in the media finally realise Richmond are well past it.

I just watched the All The Goals package. How poorly is that edited? It shows the set shots, but none of whatever (mark, freekick, 50m penalty) that lead to the set shot. And the Spargo goal? It didn't show the Viney tackle/bullock that caused it. Such a let down when the website does so many other things so well.

Agree with this. I didnt see 360, but in the press conference he was volunteering way more information that the reporters seemed to be chasing. He was very expansive and seemed to very much want to have it on the record and in the public domain. Maybe someone who wanted to close down the discussion had spoken to him in between the press conference and 360?

Apart from no Majak, it looks an extremely strong team and should be good viewing tomorrow.