Redleg_Knowledge

Pressure and contest have always been important. It doesn't win you any more games now than it ever has so I don't know why you're going on about the modern game thing.

Well your memory doesn't serve you correctly. We've lost countless games even if our pressure has matched or bettered the oppo and if our contested numbers and clearance numbers were better over the course of a game. When we're pressured, we crumble even further due to our poor skills across the board. Some teams can withstand that pressure and still execute. Jrmac has made a great post in regards to the problems we face in another thread, I suggest you read it. And I don't know who Steve is.

No it's not. How many times have opposition teams beaten us when we've still managed to win contested poss count and clearance? Countless. You keep talking about the modern game like it's some template that everyone plays. It's not. Teams have variations and individual lists differ from team to team. A team like us simply cannot afford to lose contest and clearance as often as other teams because we struggle to score from the back half compared to other sides. Yes we're trying to change that with slight game-style variations but it's been to no avail due to the current list we have.

Agree with the first part of this. You can just sense the list is at about capacity with Godwin's messaging. When you get that kind of showing in a round 2 match after serious issues across the club at the end of last year, it's a worrying sign imo.

Precisely what happened. Didn't take our chances when we had them due to our lack of foot skills and decision making across the board as well as a lack of class forward of the ball to create. And when we dropped off with our pressure and contest, we have no way of staying in a game due to our poor skill level across the board.

With respect, you know as little as anyone on here. In fact, I'd say there are a few on here who actually do have connections to players, partners/families etc. To think that you are privy to what the players actually think of Goody just because you attend training is borderline delusional. I think it's fairly obvious from that performance yesterday and the rumblings of last year that Goody's messaging to the players isn't exactly sticking. Whether they like him or not is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether or not the players believe in the messaging. And to me, the feeling is the players aren't entirely onboard.

It's seems you've misunderstood me on many fronts and I can be bothered replying to every one of your paragraphs. There are a whole lot of words there and I still think you're complicating what is very simple. Basically, my view is that we don't have a balanced enough list across the entire ground to make the most of our ball winning ability. We haven't done enough to address a vanilla forward line and our midfield is still very one-dimensional given the similar attributes they all share. I think you and others completely over-analyze our game plan. When half your best 22 are average kicks of the footy, you're going to have a hard time converting inside 50 dominance into scores, regardless of whether the ball is coming from a back-half chain or a repeat entry. You're going to have a hard time moving the ball from all areas of the ground. And when your midfield is comprehensively beaten up around the ball as well, you get what we saw yesterday. A smacking by a bunch of kids. Pointing out that we've picked up talent in the last few years is no different to most other sides around us so I'm not sure why that's a talking point. The fact remains, Goodwin hasn't done enough with our list since 21' to be able to stay ahead of the curve.

You're listing two brand new recruits, so I'd say you're reaching with those names given one has just been dropped and the other is yet to play their second game. I'm not doubting we're trying to get better in that area/add players who can kick. I'm simply saying we don't have the cattle to compete in slingshot games against the top 5-6 sides. And I don't think that can be disputed. I mean, we're renowned for an inability to convert inside 50's and to convert shots at goal. And have been since 21. That's a list issue, not anything game-plan related. And the modern game doesn't start at the back with slingshot. Do you mean that in the modern game, teams are scoring more often from back half chains? Cause that is true. We have rarely had issue getting our hands on the ball, anywhere on the ground such has been our strength in contested situations. But we've continued to have huge issues at moving from outside that contest. If we were more efficient in that area, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. I think people complicate football a lot more than needed. It's quite simple. Our list was built with certain attribute types in mind from the Roos days. Contest, compete and defend. We won a flag from it. Which is huge. Times have changed, teams figured out how to play us and footy is moving on from that time. We're playing catch up due to a number of reasons whilst still trying to remain strong in our strength areas. I still think we need much more variety through our list to get back to the top couple of teams. Lets see how we go against the Roos first hey.. Big banana peel game if we don't bring our pressure and contest given what we lack in other areas.

See below, plus it was a wet and miserable day so clearly that impacted their one wood throughout the day. Yet their winning goal came from an end to end passage. Something they do incredibly well and whilst Whitfield's first kick was iffy, it's their ability to be clean, slick and execute their kicks that separated them from us in the end. Regardless of that period of dominance at contest in the last. Exactly right.

Plain and simple, we do not posses enough creative and great kicks in our side to be able to execute this game plan as well as other sides. So we will still be relying on winning territory, contest and trying maximise goals from our entries much more than those sides who excel at a transition and backhalf game.

One consistent theme missed by supporters on here when it comes to membership growth, is style of football. You simply won't attract the same level of interest and therefore potential members or renew old lapsed members if you're not playing consistently exciting footy and have players to match. Exciting footy brings sponsors, media, TV exposure, new supporters and old supporters together. The very reason Hokball became such a phenom is because of how exciting they were to watch, as individuals and as a game style. Regardless of whether you like it or not as a Melbourne supporter. That's irrelevant. You saw it happen in front of your eyes. Play exciting footy with a list of players who aren't afraid to show their personality and x factor on field and look what happens. Now if you're a Melbourne supporter who says, "I don't care if we play boring footy as long as we're competitive" then you're missing the point. If we're talking about genuine growth of a supporter base, you simply need be either playing an exciting brand of football which usually requires having several highly marketable and watchable players on your list. One of the very things Petracca brought up as an issue to the club, like it or not. It's no surprise at all that St Kilda, North and perennial non-achievers are at a similar level of membership to us. Winning that flag was always going to give us a short-term hit. But it's not a sustained hit. And part of this is absolutely to do with the style of footy we've opted to play and the players we've recruited over the journey to play that style.

One thing I'll add to this thread is the following: In the Freo game, two pieces of play made by Petracca are the gold standard for what we need when entering inside 50 under minimal pressure. He hit both Oliver and Billings with good kicks but even better decision making. The kicks end up being the easiest part of those passages. Now, if we want to see better looks at goal, a more functional forward line, better overall accuracy and far less wasted inside 50's, we need our mids and half forwards to be able to make these types of decision more often than they do.

I imagine Goody and co would have played exactly as they would have had it been the G. Regardless of size and wind. We would have wanted to train our game plan first and foremost, obviously. The problem with smaller grounds and blustery conditions is that it can further highlight/single out players who already possess average to poor kicking, handling and decision making. Which is what we saw with our side vs Freo. Again, trying to look at the glass half full with us. All teams have their vulnerabilities. We know ours and they were on show again against Freo. Regardless of the fact that it was a praccie game. We've seen that level of poor skill, ball handling and fumbling before in the season proper across years now so I don't think it's worth hiding behind, "it was only a practice game". Perhaps save for a few players who seemed extra rusty. Anyway, I think there were enough positives to suggest we'll be thereabouts this year with a clean bill of health.

It's totally fair from the media given our strengths in all other facets of the game. However, I've said in other threads, it's not entirely our forwards even though we have a vanilla forward-line compared to other top 6-8 sides. Imo. It's the lack of creativity, decision making and skill execution through our mid to half forward line that consistently let's us down. And obviously that contributes to a fairly dysfunctional forward line.

Don't have stats no, but to my eye, over the last few years, I think that bulk of our missed opportunities come from players either having blind shots/blazing at goal in open play or trying to hit the top of the square to a contest which ends up resulting in a behind due to a spoil/rushed. I'm not discounting those games we have where our inaccuracies come from missed set shots. But the bulk, over a long period of time would come from what I outlined above in my opinion and to my eye.

Disagree. Games where are our dead-eye [censored] are off don't come around often. But games where we blaze at goal under pressure to register a behind happens way too often. Our inaccuracy comes mostly from open play shots on goal or set-shots from difficult angles. Very rarely does it come from easy set-shots missed by our best kicks. We just remember those easily because they're such anomalies.

Second post here so go easy. For one, I think think that our small to medium forwards are vanilla at best and share a common weakness. Take Pickett and Fritsch out of the picture and we have the most vanilla forward line going around. Match that with a midfield who similarly share the same weak points, (kicking and decision making) and it is absolutely clear as day as to why our side is bombarded with criticism regarding entry, shots on goal and areas that we've kicked to. It's not one without the other. For instance, I'd bet my bottom dollar that our forwards would function a lot better if we had a more skilled midfield. Players with better execution and decision making. However, I also think that our forward line is not nearly as dynamic and dangerous as those sides in and around us. As I said, take Kosi and Fritsch out and there's not a huge amount to get excited about. The pressure placed on Van Rooyen is ridiculous given he is a workhorse type who crashes packs. The key for us is for our current mids and half forwards to try their darnedest to find consistency in their execution and skill level under pressure. If not, we will continue to have quarters like the second quarter against Freo which will just end the game. Obviously we had a terrible day in front of goal. Especially with easy shots from players who are generally very reliable. But we've also seen that before. The more worrying sign for me is the consistent wasting of disposal going inside 50, blazing away at goal and also constant mishandballs or kicks in our forward-line and half leading to direct turnovers that result in end to end goals for the opposition. They are the things I'd love to see changed. Our skills were terrible at the weekend and we simply have to be better and more consistently good across a game of we want to compete with the best. So all in all. It's both. Forwardline and Midfield continue to give us grief if skill level and decision making is down from repeat offenders. No matter how much good we do off the ball and at contest. Which is what makes it so hard to watch. Viney and Langdon were big culprits of this against Freo. Basic skills and decision making just so bad. They either hold a standard for the year and we remain competitive, or we continue to have quarters like we did against Freo that put the game out of reach for us.

First time post, long time reader and would like to add my two cents.. As others have already pointed out, some serious injuries to key players will obviously help us in this game. GWS are a far better skilled side overall which generally doesn't bode well for the dees, especially over the last few years given our sheer dominance at contest across the ground has dropped off. (Due to a number of reasons obviously). Whilst the practice game against Freo was exactly that, (a practice game) , it still highlighted the obvious weaknesses for us. Windy, hot and small suburban ground etc. Yet Freo were able to put together passages of play, execute and ultimately hit the scoreboard with far more ease than we were. A story as old as time with us. And these factors highlighted even more our lack of skill and decision making throughout the game.. What was exciting in my eyes was the return of form to Oliver, Petracca looking like there are no mental scars from that injury as well as our hunt and contest work in general. It was at a high level all game just about and I love seeing us play with that energy. A few promising signs for some of the new guys was also great to see. We are such a hard team to place in the pecking order this year. To me, whilst we've adapted our game-style, we'll still be heavily relying on bringing high pressure, energy and being brutal in the contest at every game. And this is due to the fact that we simply do not have the list to consistently execute and make the right decisions that lead to goal opportunities over the entirety of a game. The key word is consistently here. Of course when it all clicks, we look unstoppable. And that's been the case here and there over the years. Through patches of games, seasons and most memorably the '21 finals series. So Goody has a task on his hands this year. We have a few more players on the list with high footy IQ. Windsor, Kosi through the middle when he's back, McVee and to a lesser degree Lindsay and Langford. I remain more positive than negative, even though there were some worrying signs in the Freo game. However, with less negative media spotlight, a softish early draw, a fit and connected Clarry and Trac and a new wave of exciting youth, it feels like we could again get on a roll early in the season. And this is where I really think we could build and launch from. If we start well, I think we could really be thereabouts toward the end of the year given the snowball effect that could eventuate. Give us a clean run with injury too and we could find ourselves up to our eyeballs toward the end of the year. First stop is the G against a highly skilled but vulnerable Giants side. Get it done Dees.