Dee in a Kilt

@BW511, your post genuinely moved me - it brought a tear to my eyes, and I suspect it will resonate with many others here. The honesty about being a "fairweather" supporter while still caring deeply enough to hope for change - that's probably more common than people admit, and it makes your voice even more valuable. I remember the 2018 final against Geelong when Mitch Hannan kicked that amazing goal in the fourth quarter. The MCG erupted and it felt like 80% of the crowd were Demon supporters. When they showed the crowd after that goal, grown men and women were crying. That's what you're talking about - the deep, genuine emotion beneath all the superficial stereotypes. Also, I love the respect Dees fans show (with the odd exception) - the respect shown on the Demonland podcast by Andy, George and Binman towards each other and to Demonland members; the way Andy has built this community, the genuine care beneath the frustration. That's all the real Melbourne - not the "holier than thou" stereotype, the exclusive memberships and snow jokes, but people like your matriarch who bled red and blue through decades of heartbreak, and supporters like you who still show up on forums hoping for something better. Thanks for the encouragement about this initiative. Thankfully, Binman has said he will tackle the next step in this quest to use Demonland as a united voice to the incoming President and CEO. BW511, your emotional post inspires the grit to get this done.

Seriously, there's an argument to say a Demonland representative be on the Board. Demonland represents two critical MFC stakeholders - paying members and the fan base. It is common to have a large shareholder on a board. The MFC members are like company shareholders and Demonland would represent the biggest block of MFC members. Also, it is critical a Board be knowledgeable of the MFC fan base. Again, Demonland would represent the MFC's biggest block of MFC fans. Would love to see Andy, George or Binman on the MFC Board. They'd have their finger on the pulse of MFC members and fans...

Great catch @Cyclops. For proper governance, I'd like to see the podie interview Board candidates. With what members have experienced, we need more than 500 words. We need to get to the authenticate person.

Let's stay focused on the road ahead of us, not the rear view mirror. There are other threads for the rear view mirror. The opportunity for us is influence the mindset of the incoming President and CEO. Let's grab that with both hands...🦾

Same thought went through my mind when I read it. Perhaps the current Board is walking on eggshells until Steven Smith starts. We need the Board having the strength to communicate this directly rather than through a trusted journalist.

@BDA, thanks for that honest perspective. I totally get the grumpiness after Sunday. Your point about the kids not being embarrassed really hits home - that's what this is ultimately about, isn't it? Building something that is really attractive to kids and they can be proud of wearing Dees colours. I love seeing more MFC jerseys at Auskick now and the kids showing up to Dees games - it makes my heart skip a beat or two in joy. To keep and attract these kids, we need to do what I recall Ron Barassi saying - we need to become a club "where their performances can be trusted". Barassi nailed it. You're absolutely right that getting the right people in key positions is fundamental. Smith and Guerra have the credentials. Like you, I'm hoping they can deliver what Jackson did - competent, professional leadership - and not afraiod to be ruthless when called for. You're right that we can't directly influence the football department decisions, but we can at least let the new leadership know what matters most to members like you - competence, heart, and performances our kids can be proud of. Sometimes the simplest messages are the most powerful.

@Demonsone, you've connected some important dots there. The pattern you've identified - from the May incident through to the Oliver situation and Petracca's comments about standards - may suggest systemic cultural issues. Your point about "fractures leading to selfish rather than selfless" really resonates. That shift from team-first to individual-first mentality may explain a lot. Back to @binman's point about communication, would it have been appropriate for the club to be more open and transparent about these incidents and what the club was doing about it. These are exactly the kinds of deeper cultural and accountability issues where the members are in the dark. The club needs to understand supporters see these patterns and are genuinely concerned about the direction of the culture, not just the win-loss record. This is the sort of substantive insight that would make a collective response powerful. It's not just about performance, it's about the values and standards we expect from our club.

@binman, this is brilliant and exactly the kind of leadership we need to make this work. You've identified the key challenges (consensus, moderation complexity) while offering a practical solution that could actually deliver results. Your point about free focus group feedback is spot on. The club would be mad to ignore well-considered input from a respected platform when they're likely spending six figures on consultants for inferior insights. Starting with communication makes perfect sense. It's an area where there's already broad consensus improvement is needed, it's not strategically sensitive, and success there could build momentum for further feedback on aras of critical concern. The self-moderation approach focused on constructive input rather than formal consensus is much more achievable. Consensus is the absence of leadership and we want Demonalnd to show leadership. It would be brilliant if you start that thread. This could be the beginning of something genuinely valuable, for both for members who want their voices heard constructively, and for a club that desperately needs better connection with its supporter base.

@PaulRB, exactly! You've nailed what so many of us are feeling. "Active and engaged transparency" is a perfect way to put it. We're not asking for trade secrets or tactical plans, just honest communication about where the club thinks we are and where we're heading on an ongoing basis. Your point about embargos on competitive issues shows this can be done professionally without compromising the club's strategic position. It's about respect for the membership and basic governance principles. The fact you immediately thought of transparency and communication when asked "what would I like from the MFC" suggests these aren't fringe concerns. They're fundamental needs that many members share. This is exactly the kind of thoughtful input that would make a collective letter powerful. You've articulated the "what" and the "how" beautifully. Indeed, Go Dees!

@48 Year Now, that's exactly the perspective we need to hear. When someone with your depth of experience says that was the worst capitulation they've seen across decades of lean years, it puts everything in context. That kind of insight from long-term members like yourself is precisely why a coordinated response could carry real weight. The club needs to understand this isn't just typical post-loss frustration - this is unprecedented concern from people who've seen it all.

I'm just an ordinary dude from Bondi Beach Public School" who wants to make a difference

@BKKBooga, thank you for such a thoughtful perspective. Your 40 years of membership gives real weight to your observations. You've identified something crucial that often gets overlooked in all the coaching debates. I listened to a podcast recently about high performing sports teams over a long time period. The study found that on-field leadership is crucial for achieving superior team performance. For long-term sustained success, the study found on-field leadership was more important than the coaching. This leadership goes beyond formal captaincy and can involve any player who steps up to guide, motivate or coordinate teammates. The governance and communication issues you've raised are spot on. You're absolutely right the coterie groups operate on a different information level. While their financial contribution is significant, proper governance principles require transparency across the entire membership base. In corporate settings, material communications to major stakeholders by law must be simultaneously disclosed to all shareholders - the same principle should apply here. The fact that you've never seen that kind of player capitulation in four decades tells us this goes deeper than tactical issues. It suggests deeper issues needing to be addressed. Your point about wanting relevance "for the right reasons" resonates. A professional, organised response from the membership on governance and communication standards could be exactly what Smith and Guerra need to hear as they establish their approach. These are foundational issues that affect everything else. This is precisely the kind of substantive, experience-based insight that would carry real weight in a collective letter.

@Previously known as LITD., I can hear the frustration, and you've identified some real issues many members share. The challenge is how we channel that into something the club has to take seriously rather than dismiss. That's where coordinated, sophisticated feedback could make the difference individual complaints haven't. We have an opportunity to shape the mindset of an incoming President and CEO. That's worth a shot. There are some gems in your list... and some anger. Let me pick up your gems...

@Go Ds , you're right, letters can get buried. But that's where the power of a platform like Demonland comes in. This wouldn't be quiet fanmail that disappears into someone's inbox or a "copy/paste" response. It would be a public, transparent process where the community shapes the message, and the response (or lack thereof) is visible to everyone. The brilliant thing about organised supporter communities is that we don't have to rely on hope or crossing fingers anymore. When the many engaged members speak with one coordinated voice, it becomes impossible to ignore or dismiss. You with us?

That's fine @Billy. But what I'm asking is to get mad as hell and tell the world you're not going to take it anymore!

Great point @Trident22 - and you're right, past experience suggests they haven't been particularly receptive to member feedback. But that's exactly why the approach matters. Individual voices have been easy to dismiss as "just the emotive vocal few." I'm suggesting we put our voices to be at least equal to the coterie. What MFC Board and exec haven't faced is a coordinated, professional response from an organised, respected community like Demonland representing serious, engaged members. That's much harder to ignore or write off. Sometimes it takes a change in how we present our concerns to get a different response. The incoming President and CEO are starting fresh - they might be more open to genuine dialogue than we've seen previously. And if they're not? Well, at least that informs the next election of Board members and we get Andy "Joe Rogan" into his raging best! I just can't see a coordinated, sophisticated, respectful response being ignored. The best case? We actually get heard and see some positive changes. We'll in a better position than just hoping things improve on their own.

Fair enough @GawnOfTheDead! Sometimes a good whinge is exactly what we need - it's cathartic and honestly, some of the best solutions have started with someone having a proper vent about what's not working - and we've had plenty of that on this site. The beauty is we can do both - have our whinge AND channel that frustration into something that might actually create change. Your whinge no doubt identifies real problems others share, so why not let it fuel some action too? Plus, imagine how satisfying it would be to whinge about something, help fix it, and then have new things to whinge about! 😉

Thanks @The Jackson FIX. You raise important points about member voting rights and I agree that's our ultimate democratic tool. You're absolutely right that we chose the current direction, and that carries weight. On that note, @binman's post in the Monday training thread resonates - I look at Peter Lawrence efforts to improve MFC governance through a different lense now. With hindsight, I'd seriously consider voting for PL. Where I'd respectfully differ is on timing and approach. While we can vote for change at the next AGM, that's months away whereas we have a special opportunity to inform Smith and Guerra at an impressionable time - their onboarding. In the meantime, there's value in constructive engagement - not to override the board's authority, but to ensure they have clear feedback on specific issues affecting their members. It would be good for the Board and CEO to hear an additional voice to the coterie, who can be just as emotive as we see here on Demonland. You make a fair point about alignment challenges. However, I'm enough of an optimist to believe we will find common ground - otherwise nothing gets done, right? If we don't have common ground on an issue, we can report the different perspectives. I like your idea about supporting aligned board candidates when the time comes - that's definitely the more powerful long-term play. I for one would be very interested to hear Andy, George and Binman interview Board candidates on their podie. That's good governance. I too love the podie TJF. I really, really like your idea of Andy 'Joe Rogan' idea. But I see constructive interim feedback as complementary to that democratic process, not competing with it. I made a point with a response to @praha that my experience is those representing the interests of a very large membership need to hear from a coordinated, sophisticated representation.

Thanks for the question @praha The action I'm proposing is for Demonland to draft a collective letter to the incoming President and CEO, outlining specific areas members want addressed. Given Demonland represents a significant and engaged portion of the MFC membership base, such a letter would carry genuine weight and demonstrate that these concerns come from a substantial, organized group of supporters rather than just individual complaints. I've seen this dynamic before in my work with the Australian abalone and rock lobster industries. Government officers told me they found it frustrating when they only received correspondence from individuals - often emotive and not coordinated. They couldn't be sure these individual voices truly represented broader industry sentiment. They needed a sophisticated, unified voice to take concerns seriously and act on them. I believe the same dynamic applies here. The MFC likely receives plenty of individual feedback, but a coordinated response from an established, respected supporter community like Demonland would would demonstrate genuine collective concern.

Last Sunday's devastating loss delivers us an opportunity, as does any bad event. I've supported the Dees since the early 90's when my 6 year old son helped fly the huge cheer squad flags at a time when the squad comprising two men and a dog (today's cheer squad is brilliant!) My family has hosted draftees and a current player is godfather to one of my grandkids. But I've also had decades in executive roles in Australia, USA, Japan, China and now the UK (currently back in Melbourne during the European holiday period). @binman's post this morning in the training session thread cut through the noise: We members ARE the club and we have power we are not using. The 57,000 of us MFC members feels like Dr Seus's "Horton Hears a Who!" Like Who-ville citizens, we members struggle to be heard. Here's what I propose Demonland becomes the voice. Not another venting forum, but a structured process to deliver member expectations to incoming President Steven Smith and CEO Paul Guerra by August 31st. As Smith and Guarra don't start until September, Demonalnd feedback can inform their onboarding process. Critical areas for member agreement First, Demonland agree on the critical areas to be addressed, for example: Communications strategy with members Transparency standards and accountability Complete governance review - obviously including the footy department Securing MFC's permanent member home Our message to AFL leadership (umpiring professionalism) The Process Constructive discussion only - enforced by moderators. I have deep empathy for member pain. Let's channel member frustration into positive action through Demonland as a unified voice. Upon agreement on critical areas to address, then these topics become a separate Demonland thread. When broad agreement is reached on each thread, we then insert it into the official communication we send. Andy has veto and edit powers, informed by Binman and George. We do all this with respect to the Board and CEO. A final point is that the word "ruthless" has been used of late. In my mind, the only time we have been ruthless was when Peter Jackson rebuilt the club. And that ruthlessness delivered us the 2021 flag. Since, members have spent the last 2 years as passive observers of governance failures with significant infighting at Board and CEO, resulting in Goodwin riding a two-legged horse. Current circumstances hands us a blank slate and leaders who need to listen. Can we channel our anger into constructive feedback the oldest AFL club deserves? What do you think?

I can imagine there's another pile-on against Goody following the Carlton loss. But winning a flag is a whole-of-club thing - Strong Board, CEO, management, player leaders all united in a strong culture, all rowing the boat in the same direction. Not many get this right. The last 2 years there's been public in-fighting causing significant distraction to the Board and CEO - which certainly distracts the coach. There is no coincidence this in-fighting is reflected in the Dees performances. Thankfully, all those who needed to leave have left and we appear to have peace on earth at the MFC again. Given we still don't have either President Steven Smith or CEO Paul Guerra in place, Goody has been riding a two-legged horse. I believe Smith and Guarra don't start until September. When they start, their professionalism will compel them to take stock of where we are at and ensure governance is strong. Then they start the process to get club leadership aligned to a strong culture with everyone rowing in the same direction. Andy, I can imagine you want this question left to post season, but the Goody pile-on is not healthy. What perspective do you two bring at this point?

We must talk about May's big hit on Carlton forward Francis Evans. We don't want to see results like what happened to Evans, especially if we are serious about eliminating concussion - and we must. But what gets up my goat is the hypocrisy. Dees players all too often are on the receiving end of severe penalties when the AFL wants make a statement. Remember the ridiculous 4-match suspension on Nibbler for a tackle that was seen every weekend until that point? Remember Kossy was too heavily sanctioned because he had the audacity to be aggressive against a Pies' star who over-egged the incident? The hypocrisy comes back to the Maynard 2023 incident where our beloved Angus Brayshaw's life was changed forever and was never to play footy again. May and Maynard as very similar - both fiercely attack the ball. Yet with Maynard, the AFL made a rule change at the end of he season and he played the next game! May will not be given the same treatment - and frankly he shouldn't if we are serious about protecting the head. One pays the price, the other doesn't. The AFL will pay the price when the massive lawsuit comes.

With May destined to be suspended for the rest of the season, would you trial Petty at full back or have Tommy Mac fill that role? Tommy has been accomplished all season, delivers experience and leadership, and is one of the best field kicks in the team. AFL success requires leadership in every line - forwards, mids, defence. With May out and Lever needing to get his body right, we have a dilemma. But TMac is 32 and Petty is just about to hit his prime as a key position player. Binman and Andy, what would you do?

I highly recommend sitting in the cheer squad with kids. @Ghostwriter took great care of my three grandkids, son, daughter and wife. Ghosty is an absolutely beautiful person and the members of the cheer squad were amazing with the kids. There was constant chanting and they got to hold up player heads, wave flags and go crazy. The kids adored it. I was interested to hear the love for Tommy Mac in the cheer squad. One of my grandsons asked me why some of the cheer squad women kept on yelling for TMac to tighten-up his shoe laces. I was honest and said they think Tommy has a great tush. My grandson was very surprised. When Tommy finally adjusted his shoelaces close to the cheer squad early in the 4th quarter, we just about had fainting spells with some of those gathered. But seriously, the Melbourne Cheer Squad comprises people with beautiful hearts. A wonderful expereince. Thank you so much Ghosty ❤️

There is another ripple effect with Kozzy's long term commitment. If I put myself in Kalani White's shoes, in Kozzy here's one of the AFL's most exciting players, who would likely have a close playing relationship with Kalani. Kozz has stated for the world to hear he loves the Dees and believes in their long term success. Kalani could dream about what he and Kozzy could do together - then add playing next to the best ruck of all time... That's got to pump a young fella about his future at the Dees. Could there be another ripple effect with how Casey performed?? A butterfly flaps its wings in the Amazon jungle, through the countless build of many little disturbances and impact, a cyclone hits Hong Kong...