old55

Is this ranking based on a custom algorithm you have come up with? Theres's quite a few anomalies with my subjective observations and our best and fairest results, even if they are ranked by points per game. Calculations do not equal objectivity.

Collingwood finished 13th in 2017, top of the bottom 6 and therefore got the "bottom 6" draw benefits. It is imperfect but they had a very good year and deserved their good outcome. I don't see their runner-up result as an anomaly given their season overall.

We've had some greats in this small defender role over the decades - Alan Johnson, Graeme Yeats, Matty Whelan and Nev sits very comfortably in that illustrious group.

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I thought you said Oscar had "no AFL attributes"?

Yes good point. Saints could down grade 3 (4 after Lynch) with Adelaide or Port and use the pick split to get Hannebury and still have an early pick. They have said they won't use 3 on Hannebury and their next pick is a 4th rounder so they need to do something like that. That's another potential deal ahead of any deal with Brisbane that would flow through Freo to us. Access to those 7, 9 & 10 picks via Freo for May is looking tricky. The Hogan compensation is fair at 2 early firsts and it might be that Freo only has 4 (from Neale) & 5 (5 & 6 after Lynch) to offer - good for us!

A lot of assumption that we are going to have 9 or 10 from Freo in the Hogan trade. But it is not clear that Freo will be able to get them from Port:

A lot of assumption in this thread that Freo is going to prise 9 & 10 from Port. I don't think that is clear at all:

Four South Australians in Cal Twomey's latest Phantom Form Guide: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-09-16/cal-twomeys-phantom-form-guide-september 2. Lukosius 3: Rankine ... 8. Rozee 10. Hately Port hold 9 and is expected to get 10 from North for Polec from North. That would put them right in the frame for Rozee and Hately. Adelaide holds 7 & 15 (from us for Lever). Gold Coast will get 3 as compensation for Lynch and these picks will go out by one. GC will hold 2 & 3 - if Port or Adelaide want to get into the frame for Lukosius and Rankine they probably need to trade with GC. A lot of the Hogan / May discussion with Freo has been based around Freo trading pick 4 and 22 (5 & 23 after Lynch) that they receive from Brisbane for Neale to Port for 9 & 10 and then on trading one of them to us. This reading of the play suggests that pick 5 may not be early enough to get into the Lukosius / Rankine frame - it looks like any deal has to be struck with GC to me..

It is a valid observation that he didn't train with the main group during the finals. He does seem to have continuing injury concerns. The FD clearly love what he offers because they brought him in at the earliest hint he was ready to go in 2017 and 2018. His attack on the contest and the impact it brings is probably up there with our best like Viney. But the queries on his disposal skills are valid too. Fair observations that he's a terrible handballer. I'd definitely prefer we keep him, he was in my start of year best 22, but he 's not core to success.

Yeah well welcome to the world Rumplestiltskin. We just don't operate that wat because what goes around comes around and we're fair dealers.

No points are also used to value picks only trades.

Pick 4 = 2034 points. Pick 9 = 1469 points the difference is 565 points. Pick 33 = 563 points. So pick 4 = pick 9 + 33. The closest pick Port hold is pick 27. If we offered pick 4 to Port they'd offer us back 9 + 27 which would still favour us. There's no way they'd offer 9 + 10 which equals 2879. It's not that hard.

[censored] they'll do the deal with Brisbane or Freo who hold the picks worth the equivalent points.

The #1 hasn't had a great run at MFC.

Posters need to realise that the points deal to get Port's 9 and 10 is 4 AND 22 that Freo get from Brisbane for Neale. The talk of us trading just pick 4 or even 5 for 9 +10 is fantasyland. It's really not that hard to look up the points table. Also 5 + 10 for Hogan values him much higher than 4 + 22 for Neale.

Andrew Brayshaw is proven general midfield quality who has had a good exposure to AFL. He had a very solid AFL year, he was a lock in my fantasy team so I followed his progress and he consistently built throughout the year. Relentless midfield quality rotation wears down the opposition. And yes there is something in the Brayshaw name. Good culture is key to success. I love the way Angus goes about it and that's highly likely to be a Brayshaw trait that Andrew will bring. It also brings a stronger bond in adversity. I think we also get a lot from the Macs. I love Toms approach and Oscar seems very similarly smart, sensible and driven.

Point 1 Collingwood went in too small. I'm in favour of getting May and have remained unconvinced by Frost despite his good year where he played to his maximum.

It was a great game and umpired well. There were a couple of crucial ones either way that could have been paid in the last but the balance and letting the game go was good. West Coast had the momentum for 75% of the game and deserved to win. I think the key factors were: Collingwood went in too short. They needed to pull the trigger on Reid or Moore. All WC's key players fired and did their job. Yeo was restricted by Greenwood but not nullified. It allowed Shuey off the chain and he took full toll. Collingwood had vital players that failed. Grundy was effectively nullified by WC tandem rucks and a direct tag. Sidebottom was smashed by Hutchins who doesn't seem to be getting enough credit - 41 dangerous disposals down to 14 is a massive loss. Pendlebury failed to fire - he has been a great player and this was his opportunity but Shuey took it. It was a highly contested game and that's what we are based on so it reinforces we are on the right path.

All true and good analysis. But we are now flag contenders and we don't want to trade Hogan for talented 18 year olds. We need solid best 22 ready to go. That's why I think May offers appropriate value with say pick 10 if we get that in the deal. Probably good for the Suns too. If they want a fresh cultural start they need him out so they can move forward and there's no complete guarantee they will get band 1 at the end of 2019. My first preference is for something like Andrew Brayshaw (we're not getting Cerra) and May (with pick 10) for Hogan.

Yes good observation. And Chris Masten a premiership player too from the deal. Tony Notte - less impact

I will be totally amazed if Gaff stays at West Coast. He would have made his mind up already and he would have announced it ahead of the GF as a morale booster. His obvious devastation yesterday was because he could have left on the high note of a flag but for his action and suspension. Will most probably nominate North for megabucks but I suspect we've been right in the discussion for a long time and the Hogan trade may be giving us scope to the offer, there's a chance he comes to us.

Yes Oscar has further improvement but he has made significant improvement year on year. McCartney is directly involved with defence and I expect he'll be working hard with Oscar directly on these things.

Frost has been good this year and played well to his strengths as well described in tecent posts. But his other weakness on display particularly in the last two finals was aerial - he misjudged and drpped crucial marks. I think OMac's strength issues will be more easily overcome. He is on a curve of improvement

Not sure if serious? Collingwood are well known to be in the race for May Double down: strengthen one's commitment to a particular strategy or course of action, typically one that is potentially risky. The West Coast marking forwards were a key reason they won the GF, therefore the appeal of a strong key defender to Collingwood will be even stronger and they are likely to increase their offer to May.