rpfc

It's obvious that Dayne Beams needs a change of environment and Nathan Buckley and Collingwood shouldn't stand in the way of that need...

You have got to get in your head that Pick 9 is far better than Pick 22 and when it comes to any metric - a top 10 pick will be exponentially more valuable than a pick in the 20s. We also got Hunt and GWS passed on the later pick we exchanged in that deal if you are purely being pedantic. I even heard that Viney and co. had Salem at 4 and we were delighted when the trade effectively meant two top 5 talents for 1 top 5 talent and a second round pick. If you don't think we got value just say so - because that is all we are saying - that we maximised our position at the top of the draft and got a couple of young guns who look likely. More of the same this year, please.

Pick 2, Tyson, Pick 9, Pick 22. Which one is the outlier? It was a 2 for 1 for pointy end talent.

One addendum: The sky is blue and it WILL change overnight. It's up to the person looking up at any given time, at any given place, and it will be blue again. Well done P-man.

Ruthless Rooth-less adj. 1. Attaining something in an impossible scenario. 2. To get something worth something, with nothing. 3. To expect an unrealistic happenstance.

Give us a plug in player instead of one of those picks and I like it a great deal. Matt Shaw? May? McKenzie? 4 and 24 for 11, McKenzie, and 31. I hate doing this stuff...

Nah, not a clue...

Getting hung up on his skill execution misses the point. He is a CHB. He would be dynamite if Nick Malceski was on his left and Rhyce Shaw on his right.

Mate, I would love us to privately lobby for a PP (even publically lobby for one) - and for the good of the league; St Kilda is going to need one soon. The Lions need one now. If we end up 5 and 17 after going 6 and 38 the two years before that and DON'T get a PP it almost removes it as a device to equalise the league. Top 5 picks are golden if you have half a clue and I still think we should 'qualify' (if people don't like me saying 'deserve') for one. I would love to know what Peter Jackson is thinking about this issue.

I really don't. I said at the start of the season that we might be in a position to lobby for a Priority Pick at the end of this season - I know where our list is. But holding onto your kids is such a must in our current state. As stmj says - losing Frawley is eased by McDonald's presence. If they both leave we are not progressing in 2015.

Even more laughable is the notion that you can build a list by trading players as young and talented as McDonald.

If we were to trade McDonald it would be to bring in a player like McDonald. I know where we are - but it does not involve trading a 21 year old tall defender with the talent of McDonald.

At another club that doesn't have so many I50s to deal with - he would be dominant - especially with a highly skilled HBF to handball to...

Massive plus for McDonald - his engine. He is a unique athlete playing a role that athletes can play - a negating role.

I am glad we have progressed to the point where we can put lines through promising kids names. Why don't you look at his age before you determine his fate? This thread is a steaming bag of nonsense. McDonald is a promising tall defender who needs refinement - he will be sticking around.

Please take this the best way possible: I just threw up in my mouth a little. If we had only two teams to deal with we could do a deal but it's a bit hard when it is the entire league...

I don't follow the youth football. I can just say that clubs think about these things and they will make sure that there are no 'freebies' given. Clubs will make us pay what we are willing to pay.

It's not about where teams 'think' he should go - it's about where teams think the Demons will match their bid. If they think we will pull the trigger at 24, then a team will make us pay that. These are not automatons making these decisions - and nor are they working in the best interests of anyone other than their own - if a club thinks we will take him with 24 - they will make us take him with 24.

I think he is a kid and the season will catch up with him soon. But the promise is so grand if he can continue on his current path.

Favourite poster for a week if you can give me a good source on that.

The few that I have seen do it... Jeez, I don't want to mozz the kid. He's going to be good. Hell, he is good, he could be as good as the unnamed few I have in my head.

Haven't seen too many of those midfielders who play for the Dees... His one step kicks are fine until he misses a target, and he missed a couple up in Alice...

Trades like this are always going to be debated - there is nothing wrong with comparing what we gave up for what we got. The problem that most of us has is with the finality of which Barrett and a couple others called it a failure. Don't know yet, but I am very comfortable with the decision.

That payoff may come...in 2015 and beyond... 2014 for Gawn is all about staying fit for a season. 2014 for Fitz is all about trying to get a few games in the AFL. 6 seasons is along time to wait for players - I agree that late picks for talls is fine, but I would prefer the Rookie List or identifying mature rucks that don't need half a decade.

He had his second best season I thought immediately after signing that deal (2010). Then he had injuries for the next two and then it was 2013 and a long career had taken its toll. I don't feel any ill-will toward him or that deal.