Matsuo Basho

Bingo. Sounds like we are going to dig our heels in, do a bit of posturing of our own. Good stuff. This thing has the potential to drag on late into trade week if Freo think we’re just going to accept pick 5 and packet of Samboy chips for him.

Remind me which of his teammates didn’t?

I’d still pay it. Head to head I’d take Shiel over Gaff. Absolute jet.

Agreed on Kelly. However unlike Gaff and Shiel he is not available right now. We have the picks and capital to make a move this trade period. Next October? Who knows.

Shiel @ $850k is better value than Gaff @ $1.2m

If Vandenberg goes I’d keep Tyson. He’s a solid if no frills inside midfielder who’s been a bit harshly judged of late playing a role on a wing he’s not suited to. Jones is on a bit of a decline and Viney is forever one wrong twist of his foot away from a 6-week lay off. I wouldn’t be so hasty to be offloading a guy who can distribute the footy from a pack like Dom can. He’s not an A grader but he can play.

You tried to shut others down earlier in the thread for even having the temerity to discuss this topic. Stood up there with your red and blue goggles fastened, duffel coat and beanie on, ready to pot anyone who didn’t have what you felt was your version of a “pro Dees” stance. Go re-read the rest of the thread if your memory’s lapsed. Then you’ll see what your ‘missing’. Honestly mate, a bit of humility it isn’t that hard.

I’m EnterTheDragon. Hi. Happy to re-post your attacks on others throughout the thread but I won’t embarrass you. You’d make a horrible boxer. Glass jaw.

So in one breath you say “we don’t know what is going through his head right now or the reasons behind him leaving”, then in the next you declare that you believe that he’d be sticking around had he not gone through the things he had. You’ve been one of the more fickle and inconsistent posters in this thread, Wiseblood. Lambasting others for merely discussing the possibility of trading Hogan, then backpedaling and re-hashing your view to suit the new narrative. Seems like someone’s ego is a bit dented. Just man up brother - you were wrong.

For me it’s not a hindsight thing. Yes players sometimes do sign two year extensions (usually because that’s all a club is willing to commit to) but the difference there between the Vic boy Tommy Mac is the fact that Hogan was an interstater with intense speculation forever swirling about the possibility of him heading home.There was a real opportunity at his last contract signing to conclusively win over the hearts and minds of Demons fans with a Norm Smith-like “I’m Melbourne, Tony. I’m Melbourne.” But the lad chose not to do it. As I said, one foot in and one foot out. A bob each way on the nags. That was his right as a pro footballer. No issue with that. But he lost me a bit as a fan that day and I suspect I’m not on my Pat Malone.

The two- year extension he signed was always a bit of an alarm bell. One foot in and one foot out was Jesse. Never truly committed for the long haul. Talented player but I’ve long felt he won’t become the superstar many claim he will be. There are some problematic flaws there. Can’t get the journey from outside 50, drops the head when the pill isn’t delivered lace out, an oddly poor overhead mark at the highest point. And the record irrefutably shows he had a tendency to go missing in the bigger games. Personally I think we’re doing very well to offload him now while the hype is still there and Freo are desperate. A lot of our more emotional supporters can’t see through the fog of disappointment but this trade could very well reap the blessing that sees us win our first premiership in 55 years. I see only good things coming from it if we play our cards right.

You really going to double down on that silly comment? Glad you’re not representing us at the trade table binger! Freo: “Sorry boys the best we can do is pick 5 and Ed Langdon or maybe swing a second rounder your way next year. Best offer. Cheers.” Bing: “Gee shucks lads we were hoping for a couple of high first rounders now but we can see you’re in a bit of a bind and Jesse is a bit homesick .... look alright we’ll take that. But look after us next time golly gee!” Again, there is a time to cut a quick deal and there’s a time to recognise you have the whip hand in negotiations and make your opponent (yes that’s what Freo are - an opponent) rightly pay up. I’ll also say Jesse Hogan has uttered not one public word about being homesick, being depressed or wanting to go home. Not a word. Carlton played hardball with Gibbs when they felt they were being lowballed by Adelaide in 2016. Gibbs stayed on another year and finished top three in the Blues B&F. Don’t get sucked into an emotional pull at the heartstrings. Jesse Hogan is a professional footballer and he will accept a business decision the MFC makes concerning his and the club’s future. We owe Freo nothing. And the player in question is contracted. So I repeat, they can pay the freight or go away and roll with their rubbish forward line again in 2019.

Collingwood paid out two pick 7’s for Treloar. 5 & 9 seems entirely appropriate for Hogan given the circumstances.

The MFC’s first duty is to look after its own interests first, then consider the rights and needs of an individual player. Jesse has managed to play six seasons in Melbourne and only recently declared he was happy here. He gets along well with his teammates. If Fremantle won’t satisfy us in trade then I see no problem holding the player to the final year of his contract with a promise to field offers from both Fremantle AND West Coast next season. Freo came to us to poach our gun key forward while still on contract. That fact can not be stressed enough. They’ll need to come to OUR PARTY picks wise, not the other way around. Why should we? Because we’re Melbourne and we play nice at the card table? Sorry but the MFC’s interests trump those of an individual player on this one. I would be shocked if our FD did not see it that way.

Gut feel says Freo are going to try and throw 9 & 10 at us for Hogan while keeping pick 5 for themselves at the pointy end of this draft. Our position should be “nah sorry we will be having picks 5 & 9 if you want your gun key forward. Take it or leave it. Happy to keep him for another year and then deal with West Coast at the end of 2018 for Jesse’s services.” It may only be a five pick difference we’ll hold out for, but in this draft that could well be the difference between adding a good player and a genuine star to our list. Picks 5 & 9. You initiated this Freo. You have close to the worst forward line in the league and a coach and board under pressure. You want Hogan that desperately there’s a price to pay. Or no dice!

Brian Lake joined Hawthorn at the age of 30 to go on and play three seasons of top line footy at fullback for them, including three premierships. May’s age of 27yo should not concern us in the slightest. He’s in his prime and should be good for 4 - 6 years if managed well. If anything he’s a fitter specimen than Lake was!

North are said to be offering $1.2m/year for minimum 5 years for Gaff. Even in today’s climate that is serious huge coin. If we matched it it would make him the highest paid player at the club by some margin. He’s a very good player but that is stupid money in my opinion. A figure that could really destabilise the payment balance to the rest of the list. Let North empty their wallet on him and let’s look at a guy like Dylan Shiel who would come about $300k/season cheaper, leaving us other options in the market. Like others Gaff’s mental state also worries me. Those types of incidences - humiliating suspension for king hitting, missing out on a premiership medal after nine years of service - can do funny things to a man’s mind. Not worth the risk at that price.

We have been active in enquiring about May is my understanding. I doubt we would have initiated face-to-face meetings with the player if it was merely May’s management who approached us. Its not ‘lukewarm’ interest, put it that way. We’re keen.

I liken this move for May to Hawthorn’s shrewd recruiting of Brian Lake at the end of the 2012 season. The Hawks lost the 2012 GF to Sydney and Clarkson quickly identified the main weak link in that side - Ryan Schoenmakers did not quite cut the mustard in a key back role. So he quickly targets his man in Lake with the promise of joining the Hawks on a sustained premiership run. Lake needs little convincing, goes on to play in a premiership three-peat including winning the Norm Smith in 2013 against Freo. May has a great opportunity here to be that player for us.

Clearly they don’t as we’ve initiated meetings with the player and have shown strong interest in him most of the season. As have Collingwood, Essendon and Hawthorn at the very minimum.

Langdon is an Eagles man and just doesn’t want his cross town rivals to have any success or steal any of the Eagles’ current limelight. And he’s a bit of a [censored] to boot. Wouldn’t put stock in anything he says.

You forgot to add the prelim final where we were torched by Kennedy and Darling. If you haven’t got the defensive artillery to halt guys like that it doesn’t matter if it’s only three or four key forwards in the league who worry you, the point is you’re NOT going to win the premiership. At some point in the finals, without a top line back six, you’re going to come a cropper.

That’s fair enough BRFE but if you factor in all the the duds as well it’s still very much a hit or miss situation between picks 10 - 15. Not saying these picks aren’t valuable - that’s why we’d be offering say a pick 10 up for May - just that they fall well short of the guaranteed star people often assume they will bring you. It’s probably more like a 50/50 chance, with the added stress of having to wait three or four years to find out whether they’re any good!

Players do remain at their clubs if suitable trades aren’t agreed upon. They are professional footballers. Case in point. A contracted Bryce Gibbs wanted to go Adelaide end of 2016 but Carlton would not accept the Crows initial offer. Gibbs then stays at Carlton for another season and pretty sure he either won their B&F or at least finished in the top three. Supporters get too emotional about player movements. For them it’s their livelihood and most adopt a professional attitude wherever they ply their trade. I doubt May would be any different.

Posted this in the May thread but also relevant here: For posters obsessed with draft picks here is a list of pick 10’s selected at the AFL draft since 2010. Daniel Gorringe, Liam Sumner, Troy Menzel, Nathan Freeman, Nakia Cockatoo, Harry McKay, Jack Bowes, Lochie O’Brien.  Wow what a veritable cavalcade of superstars. The first 4 names there I’m pretty sure have all already been delisted!