Previously known as LITD.

Petty has been good but he was well below average against the crows. But then again apart from Lever our defence was a shambles. Not unlike our forward line either.

Was Tmac played at Chf or ff against the crows? I think if sam is going to play ...tgan Tom goes ff. If bb then Tom at chf. Not sure if ff is Sam ws best position. For his size he seems out muscled too easy. Maybe he needs more strength in his legs and experience.

I think the fact we lost in such a cruel way shoukd give us extra motive to win. Also there would be more media pressure if we were going for another win in a row. Will be tough but I do think last weeks lost helps us in a strange fugazzi kind of way.

Thanks again CHF for another preview. Yes , I could not agree more. Its salt in the wound. I think we all know umpires get conned bt interstate fans and it will certainly happen again. A penalty system...ie suspendion for umps that make such huge clangers would be a real effort to make ammends.

Dont be sorry. You are probably correct. Im just guessing. Of course every team wants to knock the other off but there not all up to it. My theory was teams like north ..hawthorn....freo.. have sprinted out of the blocks ro take a scalp and have done alright for a while. One could argue we havent been slow but tge other teams have been faster. Other than that I guess we are asleep at the wheel. Why? Who could say. Maybe are mids are to blame and just not switched on. Do you have any reaaons why we have started slowly?

We are or were top dog. Teams are coming out totally fired up to knock us off. We take a while to readjust.

It must be probed I guess.

We had no choice with ben. Tmac was in terrible form for a long time. Sam w still hasnt really fired. And besides bb has only played three games. One of which was pretty good. Too early to call the bb a bad decision.

Outside of the costly free kick he was pinged for, i thought Max was better than his other prior two games. He was our leading marker which we were down in . Certainly a dozen others stunk it up before him. I think many of our players are tired. Teams have been throwing everything at us. We didnt play our best. Tough crowd. Salem and Viney out. But we still drew it or should have. It was dissappointing yea but for our only loss its not the worse especially due to the ump. At least now the pressure wont be as great against the dogs with the media putting all the eleven straight in a row hype on us. We are the underdogs.

This. Exactly. That effort isolated on its own was as deliberate as it gets even outside of the one point difference and twenty secs left. Vis a vis the other two calls AGAINST us and it makes it the howler of the year. Why did it happen? Constant, Screaming and Booing from crows fans. They do know how to intimidate. Wont be the last interstate game where umps have been conned. Noise cancelling head phones a must and good security for umps home safely.?

Fritta and Spargo wont be discussed for the same reasons as Hunt snd Petty you mentioned. Although Fritta and Hunt need a good serve. Melksham snd Jetta are must outs. Sam w is a hard one but Im inclined to go back to Bb. They seem even except Bb has kicked more goals per game and is more accurate. Not sure about the ins. Hopefully Salems up.

Targeting a groin would be a new level of low.

This bloke laid Zero tackles against crows. No way he deserves another game. Hes not so elite to not have to tackle. If a player was kicking four goals every week then maybe he gets a no tackle pass. Jake is not doing that. He cant be rewarded with another game if he simply wont tackle.

Frittas lack of pressure was shameful. Melkshams was even worse. Did not see him lay a tackle. That is not acceptable and if any body wears any blame and many do, I would start at the least tackling.

Interesting how many votes Salem has. No wonder we lost without him.

It was a shocking way to lose. No doubt about it. That umpire was incompetent. Thats a fact. Another fact is and more importantly, we played poorly. So many players did zip. Especially up forward. We missed Salem and May had a shocker. Even still off the boot of a few we were in a good position to win but squandered it so thats on us. The only positive is there is less pressure on us going agsinst the dogs. And I think also maybe solved the bb and sw issue.ie bb gets a nod.

Fqir point. Its not easy with such a one sided crowd. Very frustrating in such a clear case though but yea its not the first time an ump has been intimated by a crows crowd. Wont be the last. It was amplified by the inconsistancy as well as the time and score of the game. It determined the outcome. I wish there was a five min law where decisions were under scrutiny in the last five mins with a close score but alas I think it would be impossible to have We must make sure that for interstate games we have neutral umpires maybe this one was. Other than this not much can be done. We could always just play better and not squander a good lead in five minutes. I would like the Afl to look at the frees interstate clubs get at home grounds though.

Agreed. It was lazy not to appeal.

I always wondered why the crows and eagles fans booed so much. I guess if they can intimidate umpires they will keep on doing it. That umpire wasnt bold enough to call that deliberate. Its not easy to go against thirty thousand angry supporters. They boo because it clearly helps sway umpires. Sure worked last night.

True but now its done and dusted let the crows boo all the way to when they miss the finals. Its the only way they can win influencing easily swayed umps and why not....it works.

Was in the same mind set about losing Sam. But this year and next are the window for a flag with this group so lets not worry about him going. If bb gets us more goals at the expense of sam leaving then so be it. Maybe hes the player we hoped he be.

Thanks.

True but at least we can all acknowledge a clear bias for interstate clubs at their home ground and name the maggots not up to the job.

Watched some of the gane again..we played poorly but to lose with that last non decision was just a bad way for any team to go down. Every commentator called that deliberate. I have not seen any other act like that called otherwise. It was deliberate it so many ways. There was not a crows player there. Thirty seconds to go. A point in it. But the umpire could only assume it was an accident as he hit over the boundary. If that game was played without thousands of screaming crows fans would it have deemed deliberate. Of course. Because it was. It was a classic cass of how umpires get influenced by thousands of yelling supporters. We see it so often in interstate games. I dont mind the odd howler but this was black and white at a crucial time with a crucial score. In other words... One single UMPIRE determined the result. Now thats off my chest... Jake Melksham is not a player that belongs to a top eight side. Thats that. May sadly played his only bad game today. Tommy the same. Jordan too. Anb has played a few stinkers now and so has Hunt. And I guess Kozzie. Maybe their tired Even Langdon vanished in the second and third. Spargo needs to do more than tackle. Fritta was lost again. But Sam W was a big let down. Just a goal from him would have won it. I know hes played only two games and bb three but he really lacked passion...intensity..and physicality tonight when we really needed it. (as opposed to Walker) His lack of intensity has been a charge levelled at him for five years now. We saw glimpses of it in a finals campaign a few years back but it all seems so far away. I guess I believe that he should be drppoed for Bb. If bb and Tmac and Jackson do well and it means we lose Sam w to another club then despite the crticism, Im going to say: thanks for the memories. Perhaps we can get a good deal. Before someine says hes the future...the future is now and next year. This is our window. Im not saying hes a bad player. He certainly been a slow starter. Im just saying we cant play him to stop him leaving. And we cant play with poor efforts lije todays. Our backline was at its worst tonight. Always touted as keeping teams to low scores...it went belly up. We had very little clean exits and run. So missed Salem. Lever however was excellent but poor Jetta looks totally cooked. Aside from Lever, Oliver was splendid. Trac was strong and I thought Max and Harmes were as well. Gus played a ripper in the first and improved again in the last but like others was missing for two quarters. He just doesnt want to or is incapable of reaching levels of winning votes. Not sure if hes a finals player either. Which brings me to the question of depth. Aside from the team tonight, aside from Viney and Salem how many really good players do we have to put in if we have more injuries or form issues. I still think we are a great team but Im not sure we have a great depth of great players in our enrire line up. Maybe Sparrow. Tomlinsons done. Jones is just getting too old. Hore is out. So with Melksham a fringe player, Nibbler not far from one lately, the possibility of Hunt going back in his shell after two shockers and Vineys injury uncertainty, I do believe we are really going to need a lot of luck and have a great run of no injuries if we are to win a flag this year. Tonights game was always going to be tough. I mentuoned the game crowd thing prior but was told we always win there. Its different when your the hunted. We are tired and looked as much. Crows had lost five in a row with nothing to lose. But again it should have at least been a draw with that cowardly non decision on the deliberate. If not deliberate was the player just aiming for the ball to stop an inch inside the line? And if that was correct and not deliberate it must be true that EVERYsingle deliberate ruling this year (and there have been many) are incorrect. That if tonight was the correct call then we have never seen a deliberate out of bounds yet. Thats how clear cut it was. How does an umpire get it so wrong. I dont believe they are cheats or "deliberately" hurting us. I just dont get how they could just be so wrong. Is it the crowd. The stage of the game The closeness? Do umpires get nervous?. Im sure they do. Do they think best not to do anything when they are nervous? That would explain tonights non call. When introduced the deliberate rule was quite contentious The deliberate rule has been rigerously pursued since introduced and more so all year. Even tonight Spargo was pinged when he handballed in front of himself hoping maybe he could follow up and collect it. He was pinged for deliberate. It calls for umpires to mind read which is tough. In the non decision no mind reading was necessary. The ball was heavily punched a good distance as the player went to ground. No chance of him getting to it again and there was no crow player anywhere near the boundary line. It could not be more clear. But the umpire in nervously making no call read that the players mind was not punching it over the line on purpose. Must have been another reason. Love to know what the umpire thought his motives were. His fist accidently slipped into the ball and moved it fifteen meteres over the white line. I know its just one call but to break a winning streak on just plain old incompetence is very annoying. Sadly these poor decisions are happening all too often in interstate games with large obnxious crowds. Cant we at leaat suspend or stop some of these spineless nit wits from time to time? Is that too nuch to ask? I know its not easy umpiring close games with big crowds but cant they at least give them some ear plugs. (And a book on the rules while they are at it). Thanks for listening.

Just watched a replay of the last minute. My goodness . Funny how people talk about being robbed and then theres that. Wonder if it will be discussed. Probavly a case of yea maybe we got that wrong but dont worry it only decided the game. Plus if thats not deliberate then they MUST scrap the rule.