This is unfortunate for us all and I take no pleasure in putting this in writing, but the two of them are not up to the standard that will take us forward as a club. Both players are extremely slow, their kicking lacks penetration and speed. There form has been so bad for so long they should be dropped. In my opinion they haven't even proven themselves as AFL footballers yet. What Needle was doing in making them captains was a disaster and just emphasises that he had no idea what was needed. In Grimes's case he has always telegraphed what he is going to do and so his disposals get cut off regularly. Any half decent footballer can see this and I am sure a lot of other clubs know this. He should never be played in defence as his switch is to obvious. I could go on but quite simply these two boys are not going to turn into the superstars you are all hoping they become. like Jack Watts you have already seen what they have got and what they are going to give you. You can usually tell a gun player very quickly, within a few games in fact. You can see it in everything they do. You shouldn't have to wait five years! we have been doing this for far to long at Melbourne. We have got to stop developing players at Melbourne. We have to start drafting and recruiting the best players there are. As for them being our best leaders, that is a joke. You lead by example and their form is so bad and so are unable to lead. Nathan Jones is our finest leader, head over the ball, bottom of every pack, never plays a bad one. He has been excellent since his first game. You could see what he had then and you know what he is going to give you every week. We have to get tougher at Melbourne, if you can play you can stay otherwise go away.