Demonland

Agreed. After reading this thread I've decided that it's a candidate for the absolute lock and I've locked it up. Put simply, it's become a personal slanging match that really doesn't serve the interests of the site and the fans who visit here. If either of the predictions made in the first post by Y_M comes to fruition, I'll unlock it and leave it open to everyone to give him the congratulatory slaps on the back for some excellent detective work.

INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK

THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2008: DAY ONE THE AYCE IN THE DOG PACK by the Oracle Well, things went according to plan on the opening day of the AFL's trade period. Not a single player found a new home although one young pup found himself a new kennel. The Saints opened proceedings by making a bid for father/son prospect Ayce Cordy and offered their first round pick for the young 202 cm ruckman and son of former Bulldog Brian Cordy who spent most of the year on the injured list after undergoing shoulder surgery. The Dogs had the joker in the pack and trumped that offer by drafting him under the father/son rule with their first round pick at number 14 and despite the hefty price tag attached to the youngster, his new coach Rodney Eade was happy to have him on board. Cordy was the only father/son nomination for 2008 and the first ever to go for a first round draft selection. The clubs then got down to the usual day one argy bargy and, at the end of proceedings, everyone left empty handed. There were no deals done and precious little news came out of the day's proceeding but that doesn't mean that the clubs weren't talking to each other. The problem is that there wasn't a great deal on offer in terms of players of any substance. The highlights of draft talk were:- Hawthorn is keen to meet Ryan O'Keefe and will seek to fit him within the club's salary cap. At the same time, the Blues seem to have mysteriously lost interest in the uncontracted Sydney forward. The Hawks are prepared to discuss out of favour ruckman Simon Taylor, while second string full forward Tim Boyle might be on the move to the Bulldogs and young forwards Mitch Thorp and Beau Dowler have also attracted some interest from clubs. North Melbourne coach Dean Laidley dropped the major surprise of the day by indicating he would be willing to look at a trade for ruckman Hamish McIntosh, forward Corey Jones and midfielder Daniel Harris. Carlton football manager Steven Icke confirmed football's worst kept secret i.e that his club had offered its second-round pick for uncontracted ruckman Robert Warnock. Fremantle duly knocked back the offer. The Western Bulldogs have also expressed an express interest in Richmond key position player Jay Schulz while the Tigers are said to lead the race for Port's out-of-contract midfielder Adam Thomson. Essendon is apparently the preferred destination of injured Geelong midfielder Brent Prismall. And so on, and so on … The news filtering through from Telstra Dome was so underwhelming that it was inevitable for some not so elaborate hoaxes to gain momentum around the traps and particularly in cyberspace. One rumour had Paul Wheatley going to the Swans for a second round pick; another involved Irishman Setanta O'hAilpin moving to Melbourne for selection number 51. I received a few calls from some distraught Demon fans so I took it in my hands to go directly to the one impeccable source of news on the subject. I went straight to the White Pages telephone directory and looked up the name ”Connolly” and took a punt and dialled the first person with that name whose first initial was a "C". Bingo! The bloke on the line was Chris and he was very forthcoming about the day's trading. He told me he found it all a little boring and, in fact, he couldn't stop yawning through most of the proceedings. Had a big laugh about the rumours concerning Paul Wheatley and Setanta O'hAilpin and told me that he felt some "jock on the internet made them all up". Then he confirmed that other clubs had shown interest in Brad Green, Chris Johnson and Mark Jamar and that Carlton wanted all three of them. He said the Blues were incredible – they were negotiating with seven of the clubs over a list of about twelve players. Apparently, they were confident they could fit all of them comfortably within their existing salary cap. Word is that Visy is beefing up its environmental sanitation department and has the capacity to employ about a dozen beefy toilet cleaners at a solid wage in their local plant. At this stage the speaker on the other end of the line started cracking up with laughter and confessed he was a Connolly but not the Chris Connolly, that this was the fifth call he'd taken on the subject during the day and that he really knew very little about football. Nevertheless, I was suitably enlightened about the day's events as a result of this conversation.

THE TRADING CHRONICLES – DAY ONE THE AYCE IN THE DOG PACK by the Oracle Well, things went according to plan on the opening day of the AFL's trade period. Not a single player found a new home although one young pup found himself a new kennel. The Saints opened proceedings by making a bid for father/son prospect Ayce Cordy and offered their first round pick for the young 202 cm ruckman and son of former Bulldog Brian Cordy who spent most of the year on the injured list after undergoing shoulder surgery. The Dogs had the joker in the pack and trumped that offer by drafting him under the father/son rule with their first round pick at number 14 and despite the hefty price tag attached to the youngster, his new coach Rodney Eade was happy to have him on board. Cordy was the only father/son nomination for 2008 and the first ever to go for a first round draft selection. The clubs then got down to the usual day one argy bargy and, at the end of proceedings, everyone left empty handed. There were no deals done and precious little news came out of the day's proceeding but that doesn't mean that the clubs weren't talking to each other. The problem is that there wasn't a great deal on offer in terms of players of any substance. The highlights of draft talk were:- Hawthorn is keen to meet Ryan O'Keefe and will seek to fit him within the club's salary cap. At the same time, the Blues seem to have mysteriously lost interest in the uncontracted Sydney forward. The Hawks are prepared to discuss out of favour ruckman Simon Taylor, while second string full forward Tim Boyle might be on the move to the Bulldogs and young forwards Mitch Thorp and Beau Dowler have also attracted some interest from clubs. North Melbourne coach Dean Laidley dropped the major surprise of the day by indicating he would be willing to look at a trade for ruckman Hamish McIntosh, forward Corey Jones and midfielder Daniel Harris. Carlton football manager Steven Icke confirmed football's worst kept secret i.e that his club had offered its second-round pick for uncontracted ruckman Robert Warnock. Fremantle duly knocked back the offer. The Western Bulldogs have also expressed an express interest in Richmond key position player Jay Schulz while the Tigers are said to lead the race for Port's out-of-contract midfielder Adam Thomson. Essendon is apparently the preferred destination of injured Geelong midfielder Brent Prismall. And so on, and so on … The news filtering through from Telstra Dome was so underwhelming that it was inevitable for some not so elaborate hoaxes to gain momentum around the traps and particularly in cyberspace. One rumour had Paul Wheatley going to the Swans for a second round pick; another involved Irishman Setanta O'hAilpin moving to Melbourne for selection number 51. I received a few calls from some distraught Demon fans so I took it in my hands to go directly to the one impeccable source of news on the subject. I went straight to the White Pages telephone directory and looked up the name ”Connolly” and took a punt and dialled the first person with that name whose first initial was a "C". Bingo! The bloke on the line was Chris and he was very forthcoming about the day's trading. He told me he found it all a little boring and, in fact, he couldn't stop yawning through most of the proceedings. Had a big laugh about the rumours concerning Paul Wheatley and Setanta O'hAilpin and told me that he felt some "jock on the internet made them all up". Then he confirmed that other clubs had shown interest in Brad Green, Chris Johnson and Mark Jamar and that Carlton wanted all three of them. He said the Blues were incredible – they were negotiating with seven of the clubs over a list of about twelve players. Apparently, they were confident they could fit all of them comfortably within their existing salary cap. Word is that Visy is beefing up its environmental sanitation department and has the capacity to employ about a dozen beefy toilet cleaners at a solid wage in their local plant. At this stage the speaker on the other end of the line started cracking up with laughter and confessed he was a Connolly but not the Chris Connolly, that this was the fifth call he'd taken on the subject during the day and that he really knew very little about football. Nevertheless, I was suitably enlightened about the day's events as a result of this conversation.

In the interests of everyone's blood pressure, may I suggest that these posts include the heading (rumour only) until the facts are fully confirmed.

THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2008: ZERO HOUR by the Oracle NEW HOME GUIDE The stock market is in free fall, the economy is crook and the business pages of the newspapers are full of gloom, doom and bankrupt companies. Yet, despite all that, there are always people around who believe the best strategy is to buck the trend. Times are bad? Go out and find a new home. That's exactly what some AFL footballers will be doing this week and, if the price tags being touted for the likes of Sydney player Ryan O'Keefe and young Docker ruckman Robert Warnock are correct, then its an excellent strategy because all 16 AFL clubs seem to have plenty of the green folding notes to throw at almost any player of note who can still draw breath. The representatives of those clubs will meet this morning to discuss their options for the Exchange Period which concludes at 2.00pm on Friday 10 October 2008. As usual, the week ahead promises a lot and is most likely going to deliver very little. That's the vision I have for the next five days and, on the basis, today should provide almost no entertainment for the punters out there who might be hanging out for some good news from their club on player movements. Sure, there will be lots of AFL type heads involved close discussion with their compatriots from the various clubs, a small dose of posturing from some of them and from the managers of players who either want to go elsewhere or just want a better deal. But very little of a concrete nature will get done today. You might also cop a glimpse or two of the club coaches wandering aimlessly about the place looking very concerned and serious about the proceedings except for Port Adelaide's Mark Williams who will be grinning like a Cheshire cat and mumbling something about how he's prepared to let go of draft picks 4 and 22 if the right deal comes along. Williams should be flogging steak knives on late night television these days rather than coaching. Today is the day for preparation, for setting the scene and wrinkling out some information as to who and what's available and on the table for discussion - an introduction to the real estate market. Most of the meaty stuff will start coming out by midweek and the bulk of the trades will be cemented with the signing of contracts in the frenetic final hours before the gates and the fax machines at AFL House are shut tight on Friday afternoon. A couple of years ago the opening day proceedings saw one big deal consummated when Brisbane and the Western Bulldogs agreed on trade terms over Jason Akermanis but that wasn't such a stunning outcome because every man and his dog in the football world knew that the Lions wanted to see the back of their Brownlow Medallist sooner rather than later and the feeling was mutual. Most of the time however, things don't happen so quickly because there are always a couple of major trades in the offing that are intricate and require a substantial amount of fine tuning and a bit of argy bargy along the way. This year, there is a difference of opinion as to how many trades will be concluded over the week. It seems that most clubs are eager to hold onto their early draft picks as they are wary of the changes being introduced to allow for new players in the market - clubs from the Gold Coast and West Sydney that will come into the competition in 2011 and 2012. Next year, the minimum draft age will be increased by four months so the pool of new players available in the 2009 draft will be less than usual. The following year, the Goald Coasters will have the Lion's share (no pun intended) of early draft picks. After that it will be West Sydney's turn (if the AFL can get that outfit off the ground by then). In any event, the uncertainty surrounding the mooted changes has many clubs looking on the trade period with a fair deal of caution. The first business that actually gets done is the bidding for father/son selections and this year, the sole nominee is young ruckman Ayce Cordy who wants to go to the Western Bulldogs but must wait on a bidding process to be undertaken whereby any other club can bid for him by nominating a round in the draft in which it wants to select him. If that happens the Bulldogs must use their next available selection if they wish to retain hold of Cordy. If not, the club with the successful bid must use that selection at the Draft. Once the father/son issue is out of the way, proceedings will start in earnest. The key rules to note in the trading/drafting process are:- A club may exchange a player or players on its primary list for a player or players on the primary list of another club; A club may exchange a player or players on its primary list for the draft selection or draft selections of another club; A club may exchange a player or players on its primary list for a combination of a player, players, draft selection or draft selection of another club; A club may exchange a draft selection or draft selections for a draft selection or draft selections of another club; No more than five players shall be exchanged by any one club. No more than three players shall be exchanged by any one club in any one transaction, or series of related or interdependent transactions. A club cannot on-trade a player received in any exchange until the following year. A club may exchange a draft selection it has received from another club, provided that the selection is not traded directly back to that club. Where the exchange of a player(s) and draft selection(s) involves more than two clubs, it is not a requirement that each club involved in the transaction make an exchange between each other. Any draft selection received in an exchange does not need to be exercised. However, any club that passes on a draft selection shall be excluded from exercising any remaining selections at that same meeting. For the first time in over a decade Melbourne will have a new man in charge of its recruiting – Barry Prendergast who will have the honour of kicking off proceedings when the 2008 AFL Nation Draft meeting takes place at the end of next month. Prendergast has the role of presiding over the changes to the club’s playing list which, at the end of the 2008 playing season read as follows:- MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - PLAYING LIST (SEASON 2008) SENIOR LIST: Clint Bartram Matthew Bate Daniel Bell Jace Bode Cameron Bruce Simon Buckley Nathan Carroll Kyle Cheney Aaron Davey Lynden Dunn James Frawley Colin Garland Brad Green Jack Grimes Ben Holland Mark Jamar Chris Johnson Paul Johnson Nathan Jones James McDonald Brock McLean Tom McNamara Addam Maric Stefan Martin John Meesen Brad Miller Brent Moloney Cale Morton Michael Newton Ricky Petterd Jared Rivers Russell Robertson Colin Sylvia Matthew Warnock Isaac Weetra Paul Wheatley Matthew Whelan Jeff White VETERAN LIST David Neitz Adem Yze ROOKIE LIST: Jake Spencer Shane Valenti Austin Wonaeamirri Trent Zomer The club's list has already been trimmed with the retirements of former skipper David Neitz and Ben Holland, the announcements that new contracts would not be offered to Jeff White and Adem Yze and the delisting of Jace Bode and Isaac Weetra. No decision has yet been made as to the elevation of rookies Valenti and Wonaeamirri who both were given senior status as long term injury replacements. The other bargaining chips of trade week are the draft picks themselves. This is how they line up before the exchange period starts – Round One - 1. Melbourne 2. West Coast 3. Fremantle 4. Port Adelaide 5. Essendon 6. Carlton 7. Brisbane 8. Richmond 9. North Melbourne 10. Adelaide 11. Collingwood 12. Sydney 13. St. Kilda 14. Western Bulldogs 15. Geelong 16. Hawthorn Priority Round - 17. Melbourne 18. West Coast Round Two - 19. Melbourne 20. West Coast 21. Fremantle 22. Port Adelaide 23. Essendon 24. Carlton 25. Brisbane 26. Richmond 27. North Melbourne 28. Adelaide 29. Collingwood 30. Sydney 31. St. Kilda 32. Western Bulldogs 33. Geelong 34. Hawthorn Round Three - 35. Melbourne 36. West Coast 37. Fremantle 38. Port Adelaide 39. Essendon 40. Carlton 41. Brisbane 42. Richmond 43. North Melbourne 44. Adelaide 45. Collingwood 46. Sydney 47. St. Kilda 48. Western Bulldogs 49. Geelong 50. Hawthorn Round Four - 51. Melbourne 52. West Coast 53. Fremantle 54. Port Adelaide 55. Essendon 56. Carlton 57. Brisbane 58. Richmond 59. North Melbourne 60. Adelaide 61. Collingwood 62. Sydney 63. St. Kilda 64. Western Bulldogs 65. Geelong 66. Hawthorn Round Five - 67. Melbourne 68. West Coast 69. Fremantle 70. Port Adelaide 71. Essendon 72. Carlton 73. Brisbane 74. Richmond 75. North Melbourne 76. Adelaide 77. Collingwood 78. Sydney 79. St. Kilda 80. Western Bulldogs 81. Geelong 82. Hawthorn The draft will go to further rounds as required to fulfil each club's quota of players. Once the big names like Jonathan Brown and Daniel Kerr decided that their old homes were nice and comfortable (and their own clubs helped pay off their mortgages), the main trade interest in the market has been on Warnock and more lately O'Keefe. Melbourne's own Brad Green has been mentioned in despatches along with others such as disgruntled West Coast ruckman Mark Seaby, injured Geelong midfielder Brent Prismall, Kangaroo Daniel Harris, the Western Bulldogs' Farren Ray and Essendon's Andrew Lovett. Other names will emerge as the week unfolds. So the housing market is about to hot up. The scene is set and let the trade week begin ...

THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2008: ZERO HOUR by the Oracle NEW HOME GUIDE The stock market is in free fall, the economy is crook and the business pages of the newspapers are full of gloom, doom and bankrupt companies. Yet, despite all that, there are always people around who believe the best strategy is to buck the trend. Times are bad? Go out and find a new home. That's exactly what some AFL footballers will be doing this week and, if the price tags being touted for the likes of Sydney player Ryan O'Keefe and young Docker ruckman Robert Warnock are correct, then its an excellent strategy because all 16 AFL clubs seem to have plenty of the green folding notes to throw at almost any player of note who can still draw breath. The representatives of those clubs will meet this morning to discuss their options for the Exchange Period which concludes at 2.00pm on Friday 10 October 2008. As usual, the week ahead promises a lot and is most likely going to deliver very little. That's the vision I have for the next five days and, on the basis, today should provide almost no entertainment for the punters out there who might be hanging out for some good news from their club on player movements. Sure, there will be lots of AFL type heads involved close discussion with their compatriots from the various clubs, a small dose of posturing from some of them and from the managers of players who either want to go elsewhere or just want a better deal. But very little of a concrete nature will get done today. You might also cop a glimpse or two of the club coaches wandering aimlessly about the place looking very concerned and serious about the proceedings except for Port Adelaide's Mark Williams who will be grinning like a Cheshire cat and mumbling something about how he's prepared to let go of draft picks 4 and 22 if the right deal comes along. Williams should be flogging steak knives on late night television these days rather than coaching. Today is the day for preparation, for setting the scene and wrinkling out some information as to who and what's available and on the table for discussion - an introduction to the real estate market. Most of the meaty stuff will start coming out by midweek and the bulk of the trades will be cemented with the signing of contracts in the frenetic final hours before the gates and the fax machines at AFL House are shut tight on Friday afternoon. A couple of years ago the opening day proceedings saw one big deal consummated when Brisbane and the Western Bulldogs agreed on trade terms over Jason Akermanis but that wasn't such a stunning outcome because every man and his dog in the football world knew that the Lions wanted to see the back of their Brownlow Medallist sooner rather than later and the feeling was mutual. Most of the time however, things don't happen so quickly because there are always a couple of major trades in the offing that are intricate and require a substantial amount of fine tuning and a bit of argy bargy along the way. This year, there is a difference of opinion as to how many trades will be concluded over the week. It seems that most clubs are eager to hold onto their early draft picks as they are wary of the changes being introduced to allow for new players in the market - clubs from the Gold Coast and West Sydney that will come into the competition in 2011 and 2012. Next year, the minimum draft age will be increased by four months so the pool of new players available in the 2009 draft will be less than usual. The following year, the Goald Coasters will have the Lion's share (no pun intended) of early draft picks. After that it will be West Sydney's turn (if the AFL can get that outfit off the ground by then). In any event, the uncertainty surrounding the mooted changes has many clubs looking on the trade period with a fair deal of caution. The first business that actually gets done is the bidding for father/son selections and this year, the sole nominee is young ruckman Ayce Cordy who wants to go to the Western Bulldogs but must wait on a bidding process to be undertaken whereby any other club can bid for him by nominating a round in the draft in which it wants to select him. If that happens the Bulldogs must use their next available selection if they wish to retain hold of Cordy. If not, the club with the successful bid must use that selection at the Draft. Once the father/son issue is out of the way, proceedings will start in earnest. The key rules to note in the trading/drafting process are:- A club may exchange a player or players on its primary list for a player or players on the primary list of another club; A club may exchange a player or players on its primary list for the draft selection or draft selections of another club; A club may exchange a player or players on its primary list for a combination of a player, players, draft selection or draft selection of another club; A club may exchange a draft selection or draft selections for a draft selection or draft selections of another club; No more than five players shall be exchanged by any one club. No more than three players shall be exchanged by any one club in any one transaction, or series of related or interdependent transactions. A club cannot on-trade a player received in any exchange until the following year. A club may exchange a draft selection it has received from another club, provided that the selection is not traded directly back to that club. Where the exchange of a player(s) and draft selection(s) involves more than two clubs, it is not a requirement that each club involved in the transaction make an exchange between each other. Any draft selection received in an exchange does not need to be exercised. However, any club that passes on a draft selection shall be excluded from exercising any remaining selections at that same meeting. For the first time in over a decade Melbourne will have a new man in charge of its recruiting – Barry Prendergast who will have the honour of kicking off proceedings when the 2008 AFL Nation Draft meeting takes place at the end of next month. Prendergast has the role of presiding over the changes to the club’s playing list which, at the end of the 2008 playing season read as follows:- MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB - PLAYING LIST (SEASON 2008) SENIOR LIST: Clint Bartram Matthew Bate Daniel Bell Jace Bode Cameron Bruce Simon Buckley Nathan Carroll Kyle Cheney Aaron Davey Lynden Dunn James Frawley Colin Garland Brad Green Jack Grimes Ben Holland Mark Jamar Chris Johnson Paul Johnson Nathan Jones James McDonald Brock McLean Tom McNamara Addam Maric Stefan Martin John Meesen Brad Miller Brent Moloney Cale Morton Michael Newton Ricky Petterd Jared Rivers Russell Robertson Colin Sylvia Matthew Warnock Isaac Weetra Paul Wheatley Matthew Whelan Jeff White VETERAN LIST David Neitz Adem Yze ROOKIE LIST: Jake Spencer Shane Valenti Austin Wonaeamirri Trent Zomer The club's list has already been trimmed with the retirements of former skipper David Neitz and Ben Holland, the announcements that new contracts would not be offered to Jeff White and Adem Yze and the delisting of Jace Bode and Isaac Weetra. No decision has yet been made as to the elevation of rookies Valenti and Wonaeamirri who both were given senior status as long term injury replacements. The other bargaining chips of trade week are the draft picks themselves. This is how they line up before the exchange period starts – Round One - 1. Melbourne 2. West Coast 3. Fremantle 4. Port Adelaide 5. Essendon 6. Carlton 7. Brisbane 8. Richmond 9. North Melbourne 10. Adelaide 11. Collingwood 12. Sydney 13. St. Kilda 14. Western Bulldogs 15. Geelong 16. Hawthorn Priority Round - 17. Melbourne 18. West Coast Round Two - 19. Melbourne 20. West Coast 21. Fremantle 22. Port Adelaide 23. Essendon 24. Carlton 25. Brisbane 26. Richmond 27. North Melbourne 28. Adelaide 29. Collingwood 30. Sydney 31. St. Kilda 32. Western Bulldogs 33. Geelong 34. Hawthorn Round Three - 35. Melbourne 36. West Coast 37. Fremantle 38. Port Adelaide 39. Essendon 40. Carlton 41. Brisbane 42. Richmond 43. North Melbourne 44. Adelaide 45. Collingwood 46. Sydney 47. St. Kilda 48. Western Bulldogs 49. Geelong 50. Hawthorn Round Four - 51. Melbourne 52. West Coast 53. Fremantle 54. Port Adelaide 55. Essendon 56. Carlton 57. Brisbane 58. Richmond 59. North Melbourne 60. Adelaide 61. Collingwood 62. Sydney 63. St. Kilda 64. Western Bulldogs 65. Geelong 66. Hawthorn Round Five - 67. Melbourne 68. West Coast 69. Fremantle 70. Port Adelaide 71. Essendon 72. Carlton 73. Brisbane 74. Richmond 75. North Melbourne 76. Adelaide 77. Collingwood 78. Sydney 79. St. Kilda 80. Western Bulldogs 81. Geelong 82. Hawthorn The draft will go to further rounds as required to fulfil each club's quota of players. Once the big names like Jonathan Brown and Daniel Kerr decided that their old homes were nice and comfortable (and their own clubs helped pay off their mortgages), the main trade interest in the market has been on Warnock and more lately O'Keefe. Melbourne's own Brad Green has been mentioned in despatches along with others such as disgruntled West Coast ruckman Mark Seaby, injured Geelong midfielder Brent Prismall, Kangaroo Daniel Harris, the Western Bulldogs' Farren Ray and Essendon's Andrew Lovett. Other names will emerge as the week unfolds. So the housing market is about to hot up. The scene is set and let the trade week begin ...

37. Matthew Warnock [192cm 92kg 03.04.84 – games (in 2008) goals (in 2008] – the tall defender surprised most of us by not only claiming a regular spot in the Demons’ defence but by performing admirably against some top opponents and capping off a fine season by finishing fourth in the voting for the "Bluey" Truscott Trophy.

ONCE WE WERE DEMONS ... by Whispering Jack PART ONE Speaking at the club's best and fairest on Thursday night, Melbourne President Jim Stynes told 650 ardent Demon fans that "he plans to see the club become a premiership contender before his tenure is up". He warned the assembled faithful that the challenge would not be an easy one because the club has in recent years been held back both on and off the field but … Stynes spoke of some of the clubs well-documented recent setbacks including its financial plight, the losing of major sponsor iPrimus and twice changing its CEO. Then there was the matter of the team's on field performances and the fact that it finished a dismal last in the 16 team AFL competition. "The Hawks this year in their Grand final had nine players taken in the top 20. At the start of next year we will have 14 players who were taken in the top 20 draft picks on our list," he said in support of his belief that Melbourne’s young squad has the ability to emulate the Hawks at some time in the not too distant future. The road back up to the top is long and steep but Stynes and his new board know exactly what’s involved in bringing about the club's rejuvenation. Off the field, the club needs to re-establish its financial position (the debt reduction of over $3m raised to date has been merely a first step), relationships with the MCC and the AFL need to be secured, redefined and improved and a final decision needs to be made about its home and its training base. This requires some tough decision making, a good measure of strong discipline and a lot of patience. In many ways, the club is following the formula laid out by the Hawks including the planned setting up of training facilities at Casey Fields, which Stynes sees as going some way to solving the Demons’ identity crisis. The Melbourne Age reported that Stynes was encouraging the club to "embrace its history and look forward to the future": While one of the innovations of the new Stynes board has been the restoration of the Demon identity that was shunned by the club in some recent marketing and while I have no problem with "embracing" our history and recognising and honouring the past, by far the more important part of the Synes plan is the need to consolidate the club's future. We neeed to look at the conditions and requirements for success in the 21st century and not back to the ‘fifties and 'sixties as we have done for so long in our recent past. In many ways, we need to look at the most recent success stories at clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn who not long ago also were experiencing the pain of our current situation. At the same time, we will need to do things in our own way and always remain the Demons. PART TWO There was something inspirational about the way in which Hawthorn's 2008 premiership came about that transcended a booming Buddy Franklin goal from outside 50 metres or a desperate lunge from Luke Hodge to smother and prevent an opposition scoring opportunity. That something was the way the Hawks went about setting the scene for success, for they did so without being hidebound and restricted by past glories and traditions. I'm convinced that the formula laid out by the Hawthorn board some four years ago, based on an innovative approach to modern conditions, could not have worked at some other traditional clubs that cling on to their past as if it was some sort of security blanket clutched forever in uncertain hands. Hawthorn dared to do something new and clever, something simple and logical, yet daring and requiring discipline, nerve and patience. And it paid off! The Hawk formula has been well publicised over recent weeks. In her excellent new book "The Draft", Emma Quayle's devotes an entire chapter to the process that began in 2004 when the club was in a shambolic state both on and off the field. The entire club was rebuilt from its very roots and we've seen the results of that process over the past week - a premiership victory, a $4m plus profit, elation from the Hawk faithful and admiration from the great bulk of the football world. Why couldn't we do that? The clubs that hold tightly to their traditions simply could never do it while they remain steeped in their past - not Collingwood, which knows better than anyone else, and not Carlton, which just throws money at its problems. As an aside, one of the things I loved about Hawthorn winning this flag was the fact that 12 months ago Chris Judd wasn't even prepared to deign the Hawks worthy of an audience when he went through his farcical "club selection" process. In return, they showed the Visy environmentalist what football's all about and it doesn't come in paper bags or cardboard boxes! Of course the old conservative Melbourne (ah, let someone else try it first) couldn't have done what Hawthorn did - we've been stuck in the fifties/sixties time warp for far too long! The lessons are there for the future but if anyone thinks it's all just about following the Hawthorn pattern they would be wrong. Times have changed; the economic situation today is different now making it more difficult to raise funds to build a secure club. The drafting and trading conditions are different making it more difficult to secure early draft picks in bulk with which to custom build a team in double quick time. Priority draft selections are harder to come by and clubs are less likely today to hand out first round picks for the likes of a Hay or a Thompson. But the principle still stands. You need to have a vision and be brave and innovative and above all, your club has to be united. Much has been made of Hawthorn's financial bonanza resulting from its connection with the Tasmanian government. Most of us have forgotten however, that this sort of initiative was floated at Melbourne early this decade when Joe Gutnick was chairman of the club and before he was summarily deposed by his disjointed board. How many opportunities did the club miss while it was pre-occupied with the in fighting and instability of those times? So, once we were Demons. We can be Demons again but not the Demons of bygone years. We have a young group of players and more young talent is on its way to the club soon. For inspiration, we can only look forward, be innovative and be aware as the faithful heard on Thursday night that this is a time of tough decision making, strong discipline and a lot of patience.

by Whispering Jack PART ONE Speaking at the club's best and fairest on Thursday night, Melbourne President Jim Stynes told 650 ardent Demon fans that "he plans to see the club become a premiership contender before his tenure is up". He warned the assembled faithful that the challenge would not be an easy one because the club has in recent years been held back both on and off the field but … Stynes spoke of some of the clubs well-documented recent setbacks including its financial plight, the losing of major sponsor iPrimus and twice changing its CEO. Then there was the matter of the team's on field performances and the fact that it finished a dismal last in the 16 team AFL competition. "The Hawks this year in their Grand final had nine players taken in the top 20. At the start of next year we will have 14 players who were taken in the top 20 draft picks on our list," he said in support of his belief that Melbourne’s young squad has the ability to emulate the Hawks at some time in the not too distant future. The road back up to the top is long and steep but Stynes and his new board know exactly what’s involved in bringing about the club's rejuvenation. Off the field, the club needs to re-establish its financial position (the debt reduction of over $3m raised to date has been merely a first step), relationships with the MCC and the AFL need to be secured, redefined and improved and a final decision needs to be made about its home and its training base. This requires some tough decision making, a good measure of strong discipline and a lot of patience. In many ways, the club is following the formula laid out by the Hawks including the planned setting up of training facilities at Casey Fields, which Stynes sees as going some way to solving the Demons’ identity crisis. The Melbourne Age reported that Stynes was encouraging the club to "embrace its history and look forward to the future": While one of the innovations of the new Stynes board has been the restoration of the Demon identity that was shunned by the club in some recent marketing and while I have no problem with "embracing" our history and recognising and honouring the past, by far the more important part of the Synes plan is the need to consolidate the club's future. We neeed to look at the conditions and requirements for success in the 21st century and not back to the ‘fifties and 'sixties as we have done for so long in our recent past. In many ways, we need to look at the most recent success stories at clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn who not long ago also were experiencing the pain of our current situation. At the same time, we will need to do things in our own way and always remain the Demons. PART TWO There was something inspirational about the way in which Hawthorn's 2008 premiership came about that transcended a booming Buddy Franklin goal from outside 50 metres or a desperate lunge from Luke Hodge to smother and prevent an opposition scoring opportunity. That something was the way the Hawks went about setting the scene for success, for they did so without being hidebound and restricted by past glories and traditions. I'm convinced that the formula laid out by the Hawthorn board some four years ago, based on an innovative approach to modern conditions, could not have worked at some other traditional clubs that cling on to their past as if it was some sort of security blanket clutched forever in uncertain hands. Hawthorn dared to do something new and clever, something simple and logical, yet daring and requiring discipline, nerve and patience. And it paid off! The Hawk formula has been well publicised over recent weeks. In her excellent new book "The Draft", Emma Quayle's devotes an entire chapter to the process that began in 2004 when the club was in a shambolic state both on and off the field. The entire club was rebuilt from its very roots and we've seen the results of that process over the past week - a premiership victory, a $4m plus profit, elation from the Hawk faithful and admiration from the great bulk of the football world. Why couldn't we do that? The clubs that hold tightly to their traditions simply could never do it while they remain steeped in their past - not Collingwood, which knows better than anyone else, and not Carlton, which just throws money at its problems. As an aside, one of the things I loved about Hawthorn winning this flag was the fact that 12 months ago Chris Judd wasn't even prepared to deign the Hawks worthy of an audience when he went through his farcical "club selection" process. In return, they showed the Visy environmentalist what football's all about and it doesn't come in paper bags or cardboard boxes! Of course the old conservative Melbourne (ah, let someone else try it first) couldn't have done what Hawthorn did - we've been stuck in the fifties/sixties time warp for far too long! The lessons are there for the future but if anyone thinks it's all just about following the Hawthorn pattern they would be wrong. Times have changed; the economic situation today is different now making it more difficult to raise funds to build a secure club. The drafting and trading conditions are different making it more difficult to secure early draft picks in bulk with which to custom build a team in double quick time. Priority draft selections are harder to come by and clubs are less likely today to hand out first round picks for the likes of a Hay or a Thompson. But the principle still stands. You need to have a vision and be brave and innovative and above all, your club has to be united. Much has been made of Hawthorn's financial bonanza resulting from its connection with the Tasmanian government. Most of us have forgotten however, that this sort of initiative was floated at Melbourne early this decade when Joe Gutnick was chairman of the club and before he was summarily deposed by his disjointed board. How many opportunities did the club miss while it was pre-occupied with the in fighting and instability of those times? So, once we were Demons. We can be Demons again but not the Demons of bygone years. We have a young group of players and more young talent is on its way to the club soon. For inspiration, we can only look forward, be innovative and be aware as the faithful heard on Thursday night that this is a time of tough decision making, strong discipline and a lot of patience.

36. Aaron Davey [177cm 72kg 10.06.83 - 97 games (15 in 2008) 130 goals (11 in 2008)] – the Demon livewire initially made his impact as a goal kicking half forward who was outstanding in his defensive work such as running down the opposition and effectively applying tackles from behind. In the past two seasons he has been moved gradually into the midfield but injuries and a drop off in form have seen his output significantly reduced. Injuries have prematurely ended both of those last two seasons – in 2007, he had knee and hamstring problems while this year, he missed the last month with a heel stress fracture.

35. Trent Zomer [196cm 94kg 09.06.89 - 0 games 0 goals] – rookie listed tall key position player from Eastern Ranges who spent most of the season developing in the reserves at Sandringham. Had a couple of games in mid season at full forward as a replacement full forward for Nick Sautner, kicking three goals in one but failing to impress in the other.

The rest of us at Demonland back you to the hilt on this one Fan. Everyone on this site signed up to our Code of Conduct. It's pretty clear that if you don't have the discipline to honour what you signed up for, you have the choice not to post messages here.

I respect club b & f's as much as any other awards for the very reasons set out by Alpha in the first post in this thread. Cameron Bruce has seen us through a tough year and he's deserving of this award notwithstanding some problems with disposal that he's had from time to time. Then again, people notice the miskicks more if you get over 20 of them each week much more than if you only get a handful.

34. Jeff White [195cm 97kg 19.02.77 - 268 games (15 in 2008) 113 goals (7 in 2008)] - the long and distinguished career of the Demons ruckman wound down in 2008 as the club's youth policy began to take hold. Has been advised by the club that he will not get a contract for 2009 and is looking elsewhere.

33. Stefan Martin [198cm 97 kg 17.11.86 - 8 games 0 goals] - the former junior basketball star was impressive on debut in his eight games as a tall defender with the Demons. He is on a steep learning curve but has the height and athleticism to go a long way in the game as it is currently played.

32. Cameron Bruce [190cm 85kg 30.09.79 - 184 games (22 in 2008) 195 goals (13 in 2008] - the only Melbourne player to feature in all 22 games this year, Bruce had an interrupted pre-seaon due to a knee injury but came back to be the club's leading possession gatherer with 244 kicks and 287 handballs and was elected the co-leader with James McDonald after David Neitz' retirement. He also took the most marks (147) and was second behind McDonald on the club's tackle count. Unfortunately, he drew criticism from some quarters for his disposal by foot which was at times well below the standards he set in his early days.

31 Paul Wheatley [189cm 87kg 12.04.81 - 132 games (19 in 2008) 33 goals (2 in 2008)] - overcame a long string of injury woes and took on the role of an attacking half-back flanker /wingman with relish to produce his best season after nine years with the club. The long kicking Wheatley was club leader in total kicks and second behind Cameron Bruce in total disposals. He was also also the club's equal best in the Brownlow voting (along with Brock McLean) on five votes and is one of the contender’s for Thursday night's "Bluey" Truscott Medal.

Carlton's the only club with room in its salary cap tp fit O'Keefe.

30. Tom McNamara [190cm 84kg 29.04.90 - 0 games, 0 goals] - the youngest player on any AFL list this year, McNamara was given a taste of senior football in the NAB Cup but started his development at Sandy reserves and has the odd game in the seniors. Ended the season carrying an injury.

The 2008 AFL National Draft Order as determined by placeings after the home and away season. This will be revised during the exchange period and then finalised in accordance with rookie elevations and delistings prior to the draft. 1 . Melbourne 2 . West Coast 3 . Fremantle 4 . Port Adelaide 5 . Essendon 6 . Carlton 7 . Brisbane 8 . Richmond 9 . North Melbourne 10 . Adelaide 11 . Collingwood 12 . Sydney 13 . St. Kilda 14 . W. Bulldogs 15 . Geelong 16 . Hawthorn 17 . Melbourne 18 . West Coast 19 . Melbourne 20 . West Coast 21 . Fremantle 22 . Port Adelaide 23 . Essendon 24 . Carlton 25 . Brisbane 26 . Richmond 27 . North Melbourne 28 . Adelaide 29 . Collingwood 30 . Sydney 31 . St. Kilda 32 . W. Bulldogs 33 . Geelong 34 . Hawthorn 35 . Melbourne 36 . West Coast 37 . Fremantle 38 . Port Adelaide 39 . Essendon 40 . Carlton 41 . Brisbane 42 . Richmond 43 . North Melbourne 44 . Adelaide 45 . Collingwood 46 . Sydney 47 . St. Kilda 48 . W. Bulldogs 49 . Geelong 50 . Hawthorn 51 . Melbourne 52 . West Coast 53 . Fremantle 54 . Port Adelaide 55 . Essendon 56 . Carlton 57 . Brisbane 58 . Richmond 59 . North Melbourne 60 . Adelaide 61 . Collingwood 62 . Sydney 63 . St. Kilda 64 . W. Bulldogs 65 . Geelong 66 . Hawthorn 67 . Melbourne 68 . West Coast 69 . Fremantle 70 . Port Adelaide 71 . Essendon 72 . Carlton 73 . Brisbane 74 . Richmond 75 . North Melbourne 76 . Adelaide 77 . Collingwood 78 . Sydney 79 . St. Kilda 80 . W. Bulldogs 81 . Geelong 82 . Hawthorn

The 2008 AFL National Draft Order as determined by placeings after the home and away season. This will be revised during the exchange period and then finalised in accordance with rookie elevations and delistings prior to the draft. 1 . Melbourne 2 . West Coast 3 . Fremantle 4 . Port Adelaide 5 . Essendon 6 . Carlton 7 . Brisbane 8 . Richmond 9 . North Melbourne 10 . Adelaide 11 . Collingwood 12 . Sydney 13 . St. Kilda 14 . W. Bulldogs 15 . Geelong 16 . Hawthorn 17 . Melbourne 18 . West Coast 19 . Melbourne 20 . West Coast 21 . Fremantle 22 . Port Adelaide 23 . Essendon 24 . Carlton 25 . Brisbane 26 . Richmond 27 . North Melbourne 28 . Adelaide 29 . Collingwood 30 . Sydney 31 . St. Kilda 32 . W. Bulldogs 33 . Geelong 34 . Hawthorn 35 . Melbourne 36 . West Coast 37 . Fremantle 38 . Port Adelaide 39 . Essendon 40 . Carlton 41 . Brisbane 42 . Richmond 43 . North Melbourne 44 . Adelaide 45 . Collingwood 46 . Sydney 47 . St. Kilda 48 . W. Bulldogs 49 . Geelong 50 . Hawthorn 51 . Melbourne 52 . West Coast 53 . Fremantle 54 . Port Adelaide 55 . Essendon 56 . Carlton 57 . Brisbane 58 . Richmond 59 . North Melbourne 60 . Adelaide 61 . Collingwood 62 . Sydney 63 . St. Kilda 64 . W. Bulldogs 65 . Geelong 66 . Hawthorn 67 . Melbourne 68 . West Coast 69 . Fremantle 70 . Port Adelaide 71 . Essendon 72 . Carlton 73 . Brisbane 74 . Richmond 75 . North Melbourne 76 . Adelaide 77 . Collingwood 78 . Sydney 79 . St. Kilda 80 . W. Bulldogs 81 . Geelong 82 . Hawthorn

28. Isaac Weetra [184cm 83kg 27.02.89 - 2 games 0 goals] – made an inauspicious debut in the club's two opening game thrashings but then disappeared off the radar, finished the season in the Sandy reserves and has since been delisted.

27. Jared Rivers [192cm 90kg 18.10.84 - 70 games (6 in 2008) 4 goals (0 in 2008)] – one of the great tragedies for the club in recent years has been the lack of game time that the former Rising Star Award winner has been able to produce as a result of injury. A hip and abdominal injury put him out for the season at the half way mark of the season. His importance to the club was underlined by his magnificent leadership of the team's defence in its magnificent come from over 50 points behind victory against Fremantle in Round 7. Ironically, his injury flared again after that game and a brief attempt to come back a few weeks later failed.

26. John Meesen [200cm 97kg 20.06.86 - 0 games 0 goals] – The big ruckman brought into the club after two games in three seasons with Adelaide but he failed to fire any shots in 2008. He has another two years on his contract and many are wondering why he was given so much time to prove his worth.