Wheatley hasn't got a football brain. If he runs a straight line and boots the ball 60 metres there is no one better but if he has to think he then looks lost and I don't think you can change that in a footballer he will always be an average footballer. Bartram must play he gives us a lot of things that the club lacks. He always has a go, he is accountable and has the pace to keep up with the best midfielders we missed him heaps last year.

If you can explain to me what relevance that has to the strength of my argument I'll answer.

your asking for my credentials, supporter for numerous decades of the DEES, a local of the zebras so i also am interested in their wellbeing, on & offield support of the demons AFL over 7 years, close liasion with coaches & medical staff, also played other summer sports @ high level with exaustralian & state reps. Sere virtually all Demons & sandy games , also studying the former through replays after innitially watching the games.

Now, whats your credentials re Zebra games?

your asking for my credentials, supporter for numerous decades of the DEES, a local of the zebras so i also am interested in their wellbeing, on & offield support of the demons AFL over 7 years, close liasion with coaches & medical staff, also played other summer sports @ high level with exaustralian & state reps. Sere virtually all Demons & sandy games , also studying the former through replays after innitially watching the games.

Now, whats your credentials re Zebra games?

I didn't ask for your credentials, I asked if you'd played or coached AFL football.

1. You haven't explained why watching Zebra games is relevant to my arguments.

2. You haven't told me if you played AFL footy or how many games you coached at AFL level. (I don't really care, I did it to demonstrate the illogical nature of your question)

3. You are clearly a wonderful supporter of the MFC and the SFC. Sadly that doesn't validate your argument or position.

I'm happy to debate the arguments I've raised, but I don't intend to have a "mine is bigger than yours" contest.

Your serve!

I Frawley and Garland have been held back by Lamb.

James Frawley played 9 games with Melbourne in his debut season last year...how you can equate that to being "held back by Lamb" is a mystery

Take the time to have a chat with Mark Williams and ask him why Michael Newton wasn't rushed through...

James Frawley played 9 games with Melbourne in his debut season last year...how you can equate that to being "held back by Lamb" is a mystery

Take the time to have a chat with Mark Williams and ask him why Michael Newton wasn't rushed through...

You can debate individual situations all you like. As they say, the exceptions prove the rule.

Are you suggesting there aren't, on occasions, differing objectives of both parties? If there are, are you suggesting the solution is to allow Sandringham to have control and preference in all situations?

There is no doubt that all Victorian AFL clubs would like to have and control their own seconds team. It's interesting that Geelong have their own VFL team and they are the only Victorian team to win the GF since Essendon in 2000 which I think I'm right in saying is the first year of the AFL/VFL relationship. The reason all AFL clubs would like their own VFL team is so they can control and develop their players. Sandy proudly acclaim they have the best relationship of any VFL club. It's probably partly because the MFC are good partners. That should be recognised and respected. It's clearly not the attitude of ZG and his attitude is offensive to many MFC supporters.

You can debate individual situations all you like. As they say, the exceptions prove the rule.

Are you suggesting there aren't, on occasions, differing objectives of both parties? If there are, are you suggesting the solution is to allow Sandringham to have control and preference in all situations?

There is no doubt that all Victorian AFL clubs would like to have and control their own seconds team. It's interesting that Geelong have their own VFL team and they are the only Victorian team to win the GF since Essendon in 2000 which I think I'm right in saying is the first year of the AFL/VFL relationship. The reason all AFL clubs would like their own VFL team is so they can control and develop their players. Sandy proudly acclaim they have the best relationship of any VFL club. It's probably partly because the MFC are good partners. That should be recognised and respected. It's clearly not the attitude of ZG and his attitude is offensive to many MFC supporters.

Phoenix i dont agree with you. The Sandy/Demons alliance is terrific, and I'd imagine both teams have a great deal of respect for each other. This is not an us against them arrangement. I love watching the Demons play, but I also love watching Sandy play and for me, the more the merrier. As far as player development goes, I'd suggest it's better for the likes of Garland, Newton and Frawley (all very very raw) to get the second best forward/defender. If Newton was the Sandy Full Forward last year, I doubt we would have seen him develop into a decent (at this stage) forward presence for Melbourne. Not sure if you saw him play at TBO last year, but he really took control of games, with Sautner in the team, not as a result of Sautner missing through injury.

Basically if players are good enough, they will dominate games at Sandy whether or not Lamb or Sautner are in the team. Go down and watch some games, they are terrific, hot dogs are about 3 bucks and beers 3.50 or 4 bucks. Can Hill behind the goals is what footy used to be.

What is also forgotten in all of this is the nomadic existence of teams like the Kangas and the Doggies, if all else at the MFC is out of control at least the Sandy/Melb relationship is, and I hope remains strong.

Agree about Wheatley, although I think he may have a football brain, but not the desire to go with it. He just seems to go along with the flow and rarely gets fired up (as far as I can see....). I think he could be a huge asset to the club but doesn't seem to believe in himself enough.

Bartram was one of the standouts for me on Sunday. He moved freely and showed a tough atack on the ball. He even had to ruck at one stage (after being caught under the ball) but didn't shirk the duty and showed a good vertical leap. He appeared very keen to get amongst it.

You can debate individual situations all you like. As they say, the exceptions prove the rule.

So, have you played or coached AFL football or coached any grade of football?

Do you make time to get to see the boys play with the Sandy team or are you shooting from the hip.