There are 12 players who we should not have on an afl list if we are gonna win a premiership:

Pickett, Jamar, Ferguson, Neville, C.Johnson, Warnock, Godfrey, Ward and Miller

that's 9 players!

honestly some of these guyz are triers, but are not really afl standard. we will NEVER win a premiership with them on the list:

Now for the players that are going to retire in the next 2 (maaayybbee 3) years:

Holland (31), Brown (30), Ward (29), Pickett (30), Yze (30), Neitz (32), White (31), Mcdonald (31), Robertson (29), Bizzel (30)

That's 10 players! it is important to note that most of these players realistically overlap with the list of players not up to afl standard!

So, the overall list of players that will not be on our list in 2-3 years time because of delisting/ retirement:

Neitz, White, Mcdonald, Bizzel, Holland, Brown, Ward, Pickett, Yze, Robertson, Godfrey, Miller, Jamar, Ferguson, Neville, C.Johnson, Warnock

That's an incredible 17 players that will be turned over in the next 3 years! there is no argument for any of these players to suggest they can last past 3 years!!!!!!!!

And that assuming that players like Buckley, Garland and Weetra will become good afl players. a big assumption. so let's add one more to the list of players needed to be turned over in the next 2-3 years. That's a whopping 18 players.

My point is:

our list is stuffed. even if we pick up 5 draftees a years for the next 3 years (we ussually only pick up 4 a year), that's only 15 players. and the face is that 5 of those 15 will not make it at afl level. that statistics prove this. This means that junk players will be on our list when they shouldn't be. players like godfrey, ferguson, miller, C.Johnson should not be on an afl list but will probably remain on our list because we have noone to replace them.

imo this has been the problem of the demons list in the past 10 years. we've never been able to get the shizen players off our list.

the other 22 players of our list that i didnt include on the list of players to get rid of are all quality. i have much faith in the likes of Jones, Bate, Pettard, Mclean, Rivers, Moloney, Sylvia, Davey, Bell etc....However u cant win a premeirship when outside the best 22 is sooo bad. i cant believe we have such an old list

Bit harsh on CJ, I'd like to see him given the opportunities that alot of Daniher's Favourites have been given.

Bit harsh on CJ, I'd like to see him given the opportunities that alot of Daniher's Favourites have been given.

he will not be at the club in 3 years time. i guerentee that. he is too slow and unathletic for modern afl football. and he doesnt have a brilliant footy brain to conpensate for his lack of speed and athleticism.

he will not be at the club in 3 years time. i guerentee that. he is too slow and unathletic for modern afl football. and he doesnt have a brilliant footy brain to conpensate for his lack of speed and athleticism.

Did you see him the pre-season game against the toiges? He teared it up, dunno what happened...

I agree, the biggest mistake any club can make is think " we are one or two players from a GF - lets trade picks for some ready made".

If you cannot make a GF the reality is that we are a list away from a GF. We will need to delist and trade for picks ruthlessly. Looks like we will get a top 2 - 4 pick for sure. IMO pick 2 would be good and maybe another top 20 pick.

Always best to use the draft rather than go for ready mades. Freo took Tarrant thinking they were a player short of a GF. It very rarley works these days.

Because we have the nucleous of good young players at the club plus some good mid 20's plus players a good pre season and minimal injuries should see us in the 8 in 2009 - with some class players from this years draft.

Onething we lack is a genuine class 'champ' although Brock may be one. If Col can have a pre season maybe he can be one also. Best chance is to get one thru the draft - top 5.

Funny how people were talking up our chances this year etc but now think the list is terrible and we're screwed.

Anyhow, when guys like Bate and McLean are at their peak is the time we can start considering going places.

he will not be at the club in 3 years time. i guerentee that. he is too slow and unathletic for modern afl football. and he doesnt have a brilliant footy brain to conpensate for his lack of speed and athleticism.

You would think, or hope, that the way the season looks ATM, Chris Johnson will be given his chance to show if he is up to AFL standard. That doesn’t mean give him one game and drop him like a potato; it means select him with a plan that he will be given ample games to prove his worth.

Funny how people were talking up our chances this year etc but now think the list is terrible and we're screwed.

Anyhow, when guys like Bate and McLean are at their peak is the time we can start considering going places.

the point isnt that guyz like Bate and Mclean arent great. bc they are and theyl continue to improve.

however, if there are too many shizen guyz out of the 22 is the problem. if u look at my first post, there are far too many players just outside our best 22 who are so old that theyll retire in the next 2 years or r not up to afl standard.

A realistic option we could take to get our list on track is to win a maximum of 2 more games this season, so we get a priority pick. Wallsy is right, we need to trade off players like TJ,Green and bruce because they won't get their chance at a flag if they stick with us. We have a great bunch of youngsters at the club, and if we also bomb out next year, hopefully with our new coach, that means we will have 2 top 5 picks. I am sure by than we will have a great list, with the other youngsters we have now matured. It's painful, but i'm willing to go through it.

For the rest of the season, it is easy to see, that we need to blood the youngsters, give em a go and let them show us what they are made of.

I am sure CJ has the ability to make it in the afl, he needs to be given more game time and get used to the pace of afl. or else we are just going to lose another player like jolly, arma and simmonds

Funny how people were talking up our chances this year etc but now think the list is terrible and we're screwed.

Anyhow, when guys like Bate and McLean are at their peak is the time we can start considering going places.

Roque, Its not ripping into the list its about taking a chance to add quality as if we win 5 or less we will get 3 picks in the top 25. If this is the case then the list would be ruthlessly managed prior to the draft.

Add quality to our young players coming thru then we should build a really good list.

If we had of been travelling ok this year then of course we would not be talking like this even though due to our number of aging players the club would have made a lot of changes anyway.

The AFL turn a poor finish into a positive with good draft picks.

The only club going places ATM without top 4 or 5 picks over the past few years are the Cats but they have cornered the draft with Father and son courtesy of the AFL (Scarlett, 2 Abletts, Blake and Hawkins). If Hawkins went pick one to Carlton he would have played 14 games this year for sure and we would all be saying the future looks bright for the Blues.

Roque, Its not ripping into the list its about taking a chance to add quality as if we win 5 or less we will get 3 picks in the top 25. If this is the case then the list would be ruthlessly managed prior to the draft.

Add quality to our young players coming thru then we should build a really good list.

If we had of been travelling ok this year then of course we would not be talking like this even though due to our number of aging players the club would have made a lot of changes anyway.

The AFL turn a poor finish into a positive with good draft picks.

The only club going places ATM without top 4 or 5 picks over the past few years are the Cats but they have cornered the draft with Father and son courtesy of the AFL (Scarlett, 2 Abletts, Blake and Hawkins). If Hawkins went pick one to Carlton he would have played 14 games this year for sure and we would all be saying the future looks bright for the Blues.

i have yet to see a premiership won from a team having bottomed out a few years in a row.

i have yet to see a premiership won from a team having bottomed out a few years in a row.

Eagles bottomed out and were lucky to pick up Judd, and I doubt very much whether they would have won it without him.

The Lions built a team around their concessions and early draft picks.

That's two without doing any research at all.

i have yet to see a premiership won from a team having bottomed out a few years in a row.

The Lions were the laughing stock for years recuited wisely and won three in a row. WCE were crap for a couple of years - got lucky and picked up Judd at 3. It usually takes a few years after bringing in quality players to win a flag.

We already have some quality young players on the list and this draft we look like adding more.

IMO this bad year could be a blessing in disguise for the club.

Melbourne needs to take some harsh steps to succeed. Firstly we need to replace Neale Daniher. When we have senior players supporting ND to coach again next when we are losing games it can be a worry. I might be wrong but it is almost like some of the senior players know if the coach goes they are in trouble and not an automatic selection. Example a new coach like Clarkson at Hawthorn went for youth not senior players. No way on earth would Yze have played Friday night, a new coach would have put in who ever was in form.

Robertson supporting ND after a win does not convince me ND is the man.Robbo would feel safer having Nd as coach as after a long lay or if he is out of form he knows ND will give him plenty of opportunity to prove himself.

We need to delist Clint Bizzell he is slow and we won't win a premiership with him.

Nathan Brown bad delivery and passed it.

Ryan Ferguson slow and not strong enough for a key defender.

Simon Godfrey bad disposal would rather have Bartram as the tagger.

Ben Holland will play good games now and again but often will be found out and disposal crap.

Mark Jamar should trade if we can.

Byron Pickett old unfit not a team player he thinks he is god and should be an automatic selection. If it was some one else they would not get a game until they got them self fit.

Daniel Ward bad disposal doesn't pick up his man in defence.

Adem Yze it would be good to see him play 300 but in the interest of the club should retire while on top.

The next two players I would keep on the list as a new coach can make a big difference to a player.

I believe that Millers downfall is that he always handballs it and the opposition know it.

The coaching staff should have enouraged him to kick more not everyone has to kick over 50 to be a champ.

I would rather have someone who is accurate from 40 than a Rocca who is good from 50 but crap from 30 when shooting for goal.

Chris Johnson is a skillful player who I believe can be a good player if given the opportunity to settle in the team.

He is still young and we just have to look how many players have come from the rookie list or discarded from one club to be a very good player at another clun. Gilham from Hawthorn who could not get a game with Port is doing well at Hawthorn. He just needs time in the team because every time he was in and we lost he was first dropped. This does not help a play take chances and take the oppostion on.

I have been a redlegs member for over 20 years and this is the first year that I have had enough not because we are losing but because we aren't making any progress. ND is to predictable as coach and won't give young players a go even when our season is over.

I will more than likely not renew our family redleg memmbership nexy year if ND is coach. Like PG our president who doesn't care what the supporters think I don't care what he thinks.

Funny how people were talking up our chances this year etc but now think the list is terrible and we're screwed.

Anyhow, when guys like Bate and McLean are at their peak is the time we can start considering going places.

IMO the problem with the Dee's is our chance to win a flag with this current list has evaporated. I think we had a great chance over the last three years when the majority of our list were in their prime, but now Nieta, Mcdonald, Yze, Bizzell etc are nearing the end. So we have to rebuild again. Our next serious chance will be when Brock, Sylvia, Jones, Bate, Belly etc are in their Mid 20's, when Neitz will be long gone. So as much as I loved Daniher over the last 10 years, after all he got us closer to a flag than any other Melb coach for a long while, its time for fresh Ideas.

New coach and captain for 2008. Allow Neita to finish off like James Hird passing the reigns to the next generation.

but now Nieta, Mcdonald, Yze, Bizzell etc are nearing the end. So we have to rebuild again. Our next serious chance will be when Brock, Sylvia, Jones, Bate, Belly etc are in their Mid 20's

Indeed - I created a thread at the end of last year saying the same thing.

New coach and captain for 2008. Allow Neita to finish off like James Hird passing the reigns to the next generation.

Neitz has said he'd want to do that, but who's the next captain? McLean has heaps of wraps and seems the likely choice. Will be interesting to see if posters on here are going to take the same line as they did on Bruce & Green re: their performances while Captain.

There are 12 players who we should not have on an afl list if we are gonna win a premiership:

Pickett, Jamar, Ferguson, Neville, C.Johnson, Warnock, Godfrey, Ward and Miller

Haven't seen Neville play but I'm not writing off CJ and Warnock just yet.

I imagine it's unlikely too many of Ferguson, Jamar, Ward, and Godfrey will be around much longer.

Pickett will be retired long before we are next in a position to win a Premiership.