Moloney, Jones, Sylvia, Frawley and Clarke

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Fact is a Mitch Clark doesn't come around every trade time

Fact is we've wooed players for trade in the past with no luck

We were fortunate to have a very attractive package available for Clark

People seem to live in hope we're going to be able to dislodge these experienced guns from other clubs, but it's mainly fantasy and wishful thinking

Who are we going to dislodge and intice over.....and let's be realistic

People seem to think we can just make an offer to Adelaide / Dangerfield and he's ours.....if it were that easy, we'd be doing it every year. All Clubs would.

But let's look at reality.

How many guns get traded each year?

So the reality of the situation is, we'd be trading in average experienced players, and delisting / trading out average experienced players.

Trade for trades sake.....and pointless

We'd then be facing yet another bout of "ripping the heart out of the club" as we did with Jnrmac and the subsequent flow on effect

Last year against St Kilda, Collingwood and the Dogs (all losses, all teams better than us) Moloney was one of our best

And please enlighten me to WHO in God's name is whinging about the McLean trade????

Nobody has ever said we Trade for Trade. We trade for what we need, just like other good clubs do. Otherwise this club is wasting its time.

The MFC is ripping my heart out right now and i am tired of it.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Nobody has ever said we Trade for Trade. We trade for what we need, just like other good clubs do. Otherwise this club is wasting its time.

The MFC is ripping my heart out right now and i am tired of it.

You can't trade in a whole new midfield unless you want to go down the Brisbane Lions route and they did well out of that(not)

Mate you have been whinging for 3 months about the state of the club,players,admin, coaches, If you are so disheartened by what we are trying to do. Go support Richmond (1 final in 20 years). or do somthing about it your self

[Bossdog 2,002]

Dam I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this thread again.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Dam I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this thread again.

Where have i whinged about the coach or admin??

No i will not walk away. I want THIS club to get better.

Richmond...F$&@k that.

Puting Moloney & Sylvia on the trade table is not the entire midfield. But if the right deals can be made we will get better.

We know what the 2 are going to do. It has been evident for 7-8 years.

Wakey Wakey Boss.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Where have i whinged about the coach or admin??

No i will not walk away. I want THIS club to get better.

Richmond...F$&@k that.

Puting Moloney & Sylvia on the trade table is not the entire midfield. But if the right deals can be made we will get better.

We know what the 2 are going to do. It has been evident for 7-8 years.

Wakey Wakey Boss.

No it's not the entire midfield but its 300 senior games experience that you would be throwing away.......Other teams are not stupid re trades.....What do you expect to get by trading these two????Which other teams are going to trade and which players do you want for them.....No one is going to trade superstars for them

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

No it's not the entire midfield but its 300 senior games experience that you would be throwing away.......Other teams are not stupid re trades.....What do you expect to get by trading these two????Which other teams are going to trade and which players do you want for them.....No one is going to trade superstars for them

So with your philosophy we are stuck with 2 senior under achievers to retard the growth of newbies.

Trades can be made. I would be looking at Essendon very closely.

Don't be such a defeatist Boss. The MFC must move not stagnate. Too much of that has gone on before.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

No it's not the entire midfield but its 300 senior games experience that you would be throwing away.......Other teams are not stupid re trades.....What do you expect to get by trading these two????Which other teams are going to trade and which players do you want for them.....No one is going to trade superstars for them

So with your philosophy we are stuck with 2 senior under achievers to retard the growth of newbies.

Trades can be made. I would be looking at Essendon very closely.

Don't be such a defeatist Boss. The MFC must move not stagnate. Too much of that has gone on before.

[Viney12 196]

Nobody has ever said we Trade for Trade. We trade for what we need, just like other good clubs do. Otherwise this club is wasting its time.

The MFC is ripping my heart out right now and i am tired of it.

This is my point though

Who are we going to trade in.

Name some (realistic) options of players that've played 120 - 150 games that are going to make a difference AND be available AND want to come to Melbourne

The MFC have been ripping my heart out for 31 years, I get what you are saying.....but that's irrelevant to what we are discussing

Name 1 decent experienced mid that was traded in 2011 trade period? Zero. We got the pick of the trades with Mitch, the rest were in experienced talls (Tom Lynch / Tommy Walsh types)

Name 1 decent experienced mid that was traded in 2010 trade period? Zero

In 2009 there were 3 good mids traded. Burgoyne (who had clearly pre selected the Hawks), McGlynn and Kennedy (clearly our strategy at this time was youth and draft picks anyway)

2008 Farren Ray who was soft and outside at the time (hardened up at the Saints) and Brent Primsall (Moloney mkII)

So The point is, there isn't a huge availabilty of decent and experienced mids to trade for each year

People have a notion in their mind we can wriggle anyone loose from their club, but the facts remain, very few trades are actually done each trade period.

So, and not having a go, who are the players we should be targetting?

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

This is my point though

Who are we going to trade in.

Name some (realistic) options of players that've played 120 - 150 games that are going to make a difference AND be available AND want to come to Melbourne

The MFC have been ripping my heart out for 31 years, I get what you are saying.....but that's irrelevant to what we are discussing

Name 1 decent experienced mid that was traded in 2011 trade period? Zero. We got the pick of the trades with Mitch, the rest were in experienced talls (Tom Lynch / Tommy Walsh types)

Name 1 decent experienced mid that was traded in 2010 trade period? Zero

In 2009 there were 3 good mids traded. Burgoyne (who had clearly pre selected the Hawks), McGlynn and Kennedy (clearly our strategy at this time was youth and draft picks anyway)

2008 Farren Ray who was soft and outside at the time (hardened up at the Saints) and Brent Primsall (Moloney mkII)

So The point is, there isn't a huge availabilty of decent and experienced mids to trade for each year

People have a notion in their mind we can wriggle anyone loose from their club, but the facts remain, very few trades are actually done each trade period.

So, and not having a go, who are the players we should be targetting?

Free Agency begins this year. The work should have started already.

tbh Viney i cannot give you specific names as i have no idea of opposition contract details. The club recruiters should know this info backwards.

We should be the most active club in the draft this year. We are that deficient it aint funny.

BP should be ashamed of his tenure at our club. Junior being delisted i agreed with at the time, but to not then seek out an experienced player to cover that HUGE gap was pathetic.

The club has grand visions for the future, but seems to forget how important tomorrow is.

We drafted too many kids and not enough big bodies. The ratio was wrong. That has always bothered me.

But as a paid up member i am not inside the club.

[Bossdog 2,002]

So with your philosophy we are stuck with 2 senior under achievers to retard the growth of newbies.

Trades can be made. I would be looking at Essendon very closely.

Don't be such a defeatist Boss. The MFC must move not stagnate. Too much of that has gone on before.

Mate....As I posted in another thread look at the stat for both these player last year.....Sylvia has played one game under Neeld after coming back from a serious back injury but now must be traded. Moloney lead most of the stats last year and won the B&F and now must be traded. They are not afforded the same rights to come to terms with a new game plan as other are afforded ie should be starring every week. I am not a defeatist I am a realist. You just don't get rid of experienced players and put kids in. The young kids have to learn and be protected when coming in. Rember Jnr Mac????? Edited May 8, 2012 by Bossdog

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Mate....As I posted in another thread look at the stat for both these player last year.....Sylvia has played one game under Neeld after coming back from a serious back injury but now must be traded. Moloney lead most of the stats last year and won the B&F and now must be traded. They are not afforded the same rights to come to terms with a new game plan as other are afforded ie should be starring every week. I am not a defeatist I am a realist. You just don't get rid of experienced players and put kids in. The young kids have to learn and be protected when coming in.

Where did i say we trade Moloney & Sylvia for kids? We don't.

We have too many kids as it is. BP and others involved got that Ratio wrong, which is exactly why we are at this point. 0-6 with a Hawthorn thrashing imminent

[Bossdog 2,002]

Where did i say we trade Moloney & Sylvia for kids? We don't.

We have too many kids as it is. BP and others involved got that Ratio wrong, which is exactly why we are at this point. 0-6 with a Hawthorn thrashing imminent

So who do you want to come back our way if we trade them????? Not having a go Just would like to know who you think we would get???

[Viney12 196]

Free Agency begins this year. The work should have started already.

tbh Viney i cannot give you specific names as i have no idea of opposition contract details. The club recruiters should know this info backwards.

We should be the most active club in the draft this year. We are that deficient it aint funny.

BP should be ashamed of his tenure at our club. Junior being delisted i agreed with at the time, but to not then seek out an experienced player to cover that HUGE gap was pathetic.

The club has grand visions for the future, but seems to forget how important tomorrow is.

We drafted too many kids and not enough big bodies. The ratio was wrong. That has always bothered me.

But as a paid up member i am not inside the club.

I personally don't believe Free Agency is going to explode like others do. Firstly, there is still a salary cap. Secondly there is still team loyalty.

Where we are lacking is experienced players, yet people are wanting to trade out 2 best experienced players.

I'm sorry WYL, but until you name some viable picks, this is all irrelevant

Name some wishes then, not ones we'll get, but some players you'd like to trade in for Moloney / Sylvia

And be realistic

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I personally don't believe Free Agency is going to explode like others do. Firstly, there is still a salary cap. Secondly there is still team loyalty.

Where we are lacking is experienced players, yet people are wanting to trade out 2 best experienced players.

I'm sorry WYL, but until you name some viable picks, this is all irrelevant

Name some wishes then, not ones we'll get, but some players you'd like to trade in for Moloney / Sylvia

And be realistic

As this is hyperthetical. Jack Darling IS what we have wanted Sylvia to be. So we have blown that chance haven't we.

Moloney would love to play like Cameron Ling when he can be bothered, but he is not that good at it.

But you rate them a lot higher than me.

After last years 186 Moloney should have been read the absolute riot act. Maybe he was, and is still sulking.

[Bossdog 2,002]

As this is hyperthetical. Jack Darling IS what we have wanted Sylvia to be. So we have blown that chance haven't we.

Moloney would love to play like Cameron Ling when he can be bothered, but he is not that good at it.

But you rate them a lot higher than me.

After last years 186 Moloney should have been read the absolute riot act. Maybe he was, and is still sulking.

I'm not stalking you WYL but did you see Darling game on the weekend. With Kennedy out he was a key forward and played pretty poorly IMO. As a third tall plays well as a KPP not so good.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I'm not stalking you WYL but did you see Darling game on the weekend. With Kennedy out he was a key forward and played pretty poorly IMO. As a third tall plays well as a KPP not so good.

But Sylvia is not a KPP either. Sylvia and Darling are both roaming half forwards. One is good at it. The other is lazy.

Happy to discuss Boss, it is not stalking..

[Viney12 196]

As this is hyperthetical. Jack Darling IS what we have wanted Sylvia to be. So we have blown that chance haven't we.

Moloney would love to play like Cameron Ling when he can be bothered, but he is not that good at it.

But you rate them a lot higher than me.

After last years 186 Moloney should have been read the absolute riot act. Maybe he was, and is still sulking.

I'm not talking about how you want these guys to play

I'm talking about who you want to trade in

Who can we bring in that improves our list in terms of talent and experience by losing Sylvia and Moloney?

[Bossdog 2,002]

But Sylvia is not a KPP either. Sylvia and Darling are both roaming half forwards. One is good at it. The other is lazy.

Happy to discuss Boss, it is not stalking..

Was refering to the Cook/Darling comparison both recruited as KPP's.....Will be interested to see how they compare in the next few years

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I'm not talking about how you want these guys to play

I'm talking about who you want to trade in

Who can we bring in that improves our list in terms of talent and experience by losing Sylvia and Moloney?

I told you above i do not have all the contract details in front of me, and as i am at work do not have time to search.

That is Todd Viney's new job. He is a much better judge of a hard nosed midfielder than i.

Sorry but i have had enough of Beamers ill directed 50 metre bombs that are so often turned over when a player like Matty Bate is well positioned to recieve as an example.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Was refering to the Cook/Darling comparison both recruited as KPP's.....Will be interested to see how they compare in the next few years

Yes i agree. I really really hope Lucas becomes a gun. I just think it was a little selfish and a huge gamble by the club to not recruit a player who was ready to go.

This club in all seriousness does not have 5-10 years up its sleeve. We need success now to nourish the future.

I hear all the excuses about Darling...Wet Coke must be laughing their [censored] off. All recruiters should hang their heads, but BP is top of the tree. When did the MFC last recruit a forward flanker with balls

"oh no he has issues"

No. You have issues Barry. Thanks.

[Viney12 196]

I told you above i do not have all the contract details in front of me, and as i am at work do not have time to search.

That is Todd Viney's new job. He is a much better judge of a hard nosed midfielder than i.

Sorry but i have had enough of Beamers ill directed 50 metre bombs that are so often turned over when a player like Matty Bate is well positioned to recieve as an example.

Fair enough, but the fact you have no one specific in mind, it just makes me think trade for trades sake

The history of trading needs to be looked at, very rarely are experienced gun midfielders traded

And if they are, I can't seeing a lowly Melbourne being a preferred option

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Fair enough, but the fact you have no one specific in mind, it just makes me think trade for trades sake

The history of trading needs to be looked at, very rarely are experienced gun midfielders traded

And if they are, I can't seeing a lowly Melbourne being a preferred option

No it is not Trade for Trade,far from it. If there is no trade keep them listed. Yearly.

I already think Neeld has them both on notice. We will soon know.

[BIG JIM 508]

Guys, packages don't work. Clubs see through them. One NQR plus another isn't a good trade.

GWS will be screaming for big bodies- we can give them one and all they have to do is NOT call out a name at F/S bidding. I believe GC will finish above us so they are a non issue.

If GWS agree to this, which they should- we are essentially trading Moloney and a second round pick for pick 2 and Viney. Deal of the century? I think so!

Im sorry but this is something that get's to me moloney is our best player when in form at the moment and you want to give him to GWS for nothing but the pick that is ours anyway. Im amazed how we shoot our own with only 6 games under a new coaching panel and of all the players we could name we go for the best player of 2011. We will work out away to screw GWS without giving up our best player of 2011. I would love to see every poster say all this to moloney's face because he would be shatterd to here his own kicking him while he is down it's just crazy. The guy loves melbourne and is really angry he is not a leader and is well down on form but one thing beamer has shown is when he is down he gets back up. Just like when he got done drinking lastyear he come out and had a best on ground about 4 weeks in a row and slowley built back trust in his team mates and won back the VC badge. Beamer also takes all the young players down to the beach every year to make the kids feel apart of the team thats the type of man he is. Please show a little more respect to a man who is not perfect but loves his club and is like it or not a demon with a big heart. As i said go tell him at training what you think. Against Essendon lastyear i loved when he went for a run and slamed a goal home to put the nail in the coffin of the bombers and he will do the same very soon.Will you all cheer? STICK IT UP THEM BEAMER i still love ya

[Range Rover 1,935]

Fact is a Mitch Clark doesn't come around every trade time

Fact is we've wooed players for trade in the past with no luck

We were fortunate to have a very attractive package available for Clark

People seem to live in hope we're going to be able to dislodge these experienced guns from other clubs, but it's mainly fantasy and wishful thinking

Who are we going to dislodge and intice over.....and let's be realistic

People seem to think we can just make an offer to Adelaide / Dangerfield and he's ours.....if it were that easy, we'd be doing it every year. All Clubs would.

But let's look at reality.

Yes, let's have a look at reality for a moment V12 (and Bossdog) because it seems like you two fellas are having a problem with it.

Fact is ... we are sitting 0-6, an abysmal 17th on the ladder and on average shy of 100+ possessions on our opponent each week.

Fact is ... we have the worst midfield in the competition bar none.

But the good news is - and you both keep conveniently ignoring it in your posts - is that we will likely go into this year's draft with a booty of prized draft picks. That puts us in a solid position to trade for one, possibly two guns that can, along with Jack Viney, slot straight into our midfield.

Sylvia and Moloney can serve two purposes here. 1) As trade make weights (do you understand that term?) to get any deal over the line and 2) Moving them on greatly helps free up the necessary cash to bring in the quality we need.

There's no way we draft a fresh batch of 18 yo's in October. As a club we simply don't have that luxury anymore.

Neeld needs some genuine class in the engine room or he may as well give up now.

You watch. It's a no-brainer for mine. One or both of Sylvia and Moloney won't be wearing red and blue in '013.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Yes, let's have a look at reality for a moment V12 (and Bossdog) because it seems like you two fellas are having a problem with it.

Fact is ... we are sitting 0-6, an abysmal 17th on the ladder and on average shy of 100+ possessions on our opponent each week.

Fact is ... we have the worst midfield in the competition bar none.

But the good news is - and you both keep conveniently ignoring it in your posts - is that we will likely go into this year's draft with a booty of prized draft picks. That puts us in a solid position to trade for one, possibly two guns that can, along with Jack Viney, slot straight into our midfield.

Sylvia and Moloney can serve two purposes here. 1) As trade make weights (do you understand that term?) to get any deal over the line and 2) Moving them on greatly helps free up the necessary cash to bring in the quality we need.

There's no way we draft a fresh batch of 18 yo's in October. As a club we simply don't have that luxury anymore.

Neeld needs some genuine class in the engine room or he may as well give up now.

You watch. It's a no-brainer for mine. One or both of Sylvia and Moloney won't be wearing red and blue in '013.

And who (in your great wisdom)do we get to replace them?????Just give me some names???? It's so very easy to sit in the study and type we should get rid of them.......But who comes in.....What do we get in return....Our midfield is being found wanting....But you can't just let them go after 1 game(Sylvia)and 3 games(Moloney)