Interesting comparison of CHF's

L.Dunn games 10, goals 13

B.Miller games 69, goals 21

A bit premature when you consider that he barely played half a game at CHF after a long stint in the VFL.

He did what he usually does, ran hard, marked and made his opponent earn his kicks.

Dunny needs to develop a mean streak, he is not strong or hard enough to play finals as a CHF just yet. It will come, and when it does Miller will take over from Dutchy in the backline. It seems like a good long-term solution.

You and I see two very different footballers. He's a poor mark (chest/hands), isn't remarkably good when the ball is on the deck, he's not a great kick, he's undisciplined, makes poor decisions (had Jones free inboard but kicked poorly to a contest on the wing), lacks awareness, and doesn't kick goals.

If you aspire to a premiership you have to get better than Brad Miller.

thought dunn struggled today, miller was by far the more effective player as he presented well ans had strong hands....

miller to play CHF next week...dunn to play CHF for sandy

Yeah theres nothing I like more than after a loss to kick the [censored] out of our young blokes. Because they're the reason we lost right?

Drop Dunn for 426

Drop Bartram for Read

You and I see two very different footballers. He's a poor mark (chest/hands), isn't remarkably good when the ball is on the deck, he's not a great kick, he's undisciplined, makes poor decisions (had Jones free inboard but kicked poorly to a contest on the wing), lacks awareness, and doesn't kick goals.

If you aspire to a premiership you have to get better than Brad Miller.

He is also 22, has struggled with injuries all year and is being played all over the place.

I agree that he isn't as skilled as Dunn, although I disagree that he isn't a good mark.

Do you think he has a future in the backline?

Not sure how anyone could make a call between them on today's game. How much time was Dunn on the ground?

We went in with one too tall and as a result Dunn sat on the bench most of the day. Hard to see exactly why all four of Ferg, Dunn, Miller and Holland were picked.

Nobody would love Miller to be an excellent kpp more than me, but I prefer to deal in reality. Reality is, Miller simply isn't a good enough AFL footballer. Well, not if you aspire to win a flag.

I wonder how many times Brett Kirk was told he was "not up to AFL standard"? Plenty, I would bet.

Some still believe that he still isn't, but not everyone (actually barely anyone) is going to be a genuine superstar.

And simply writing players off at 22 years old and have shown that they can play is insane.

Just my opinion and I know plenty will disagree, given the way people unfortunately seem to feel about Miller :D !!!

You and I see two very different footballers. He's a poor mark (chest/hands), isn't remarkably good when the ball is on the deck, he's not a great kick, he's undisciplined, makes poor decisions (had Jones free inboard but kicked poorly to a contest on the wing), lacks awareness, and doesn't kick goals.

If you aspire to a premiership you have to get better than Brad Miller.

Could not agree more. I wonder where Brad Miller goes from here. He was ineffectual at best and poor at worst.

I cringe when posters have screamed for ND to have Miller at CHF for amongst other things... he straightens us up.

Its Milller fourth year and I've seen what I will get. If he makes it he does so up back. He has not the smarts for the forward line.

Dunn got so little game time and did not come until the 2nd quarter when the game had turned in the Swans favour.

I dont understand how you could do a valid assessment of Dunn v Miller. The best I could assess is Little Opportunity vs Little else!

I wonder how many times Brett Kirk was told he was "not up to AFL standard"? Plenty, I would bet.

I am not aware of any. Do you want to name some of the critics? I think nearly every commentator have recognised a hard working no name footballers who has risen to the elite of his sport as a player and leader.

Some still believe that he still isn't, but not everyone (actually barely anyone) is going to be a genuine superstar.

He is well on the way if he is not in the top half dozen.

And simply writing players off at 22 years old and have shown that they can play is insane.

He has been four years in the system. There are some serious chinks in his game. He will need to work bloody hard to overcome these to make the grade. Igonre at your peril. I trust the MFC coaching panel dont.

I am not talking currently, but you do hear regularly that his skills are not the best. He was dropped back to Albury twice during his earlier years, but was kept on the Swans rookie list and was given his chance when Roos took over from Eade, and has had to work extremely hard to get where he is now.

Now, I love Brett Kirk (he is a great bloke as well) and his work ethic is the one thing about him that should never be criticised but he is not the most talented "footballer" in the game. And his leadership has reached almost cult status up here.

This may not have been the best example but all that I am trying to say that he needed time to get to where he is now and maybe that is what we need to give Miller. Not everyone is silky-skilled, although it seems we expect them all to be.

Miller's serious chinks are fundamental. The thing he has going for him is that he is 22. He needs to get to work now.

Where have I said Miller's skills had to be silky smooth?

For the role Kirk plays his skills are superb. The issue of the Albury days was early in Kirks career not in the years when he should or could reasonably be expected to consistently hold down an AFL position.

We are talking about a fourth year AFL footballer on the leadership list.

You are right, as I said it is not the best example.

Although age wise they are the same, but experience is very different - I hope that made a little sense!!!

It just grates on me that we are so quick to throw players away if they have a poor run of form.

And Miller would have to cure cancer to get a positive report from some on here.

I agree that there are chinks but they are not insurmountable with hard work and practice.

And perhaps we should have a bit more faith in his work ethic, before dismissing him completely.

They have been there from the start and they dont seem to have been radically improved.

You are right though Miller has been subjected to some vitriol on this site. But I have always said he is not good enough to be CHF. His best chance is down back and Holland has cut him short there. But Dutchy wont be around for ever.

Miller's serious chinks are fundamental. The thing he has going for him is that he is 22. He needs to get to work now.

Where have I said Miller's skills had to be silky smooth?

For the role Kirk plays his skills are superb. The issue of the Albury days was early in Kirks career not in the years when he should or could reasonably be expected to consistently hold down an AFL position.

We are talking about a fourth year AFL footballer on the leadership list.

Kirk was born in 25/10/1976 and made his debut in 1999 so he would have made his debut at age 22 and a half. Miller turned all of 23 on 6/7/06. Methinks Kirk is a good example of why Miller should be retained. What was your view on Lewis Roberts - Thompson (who turns 23 in a month) last year?

Methinks Kirk is a good example of why Miller should be retained.

What was your view on Lewis Roberts - Thompson (who turns 23 in a month) last year?

He is a good defender whose game is showing a strong trajectory of improvement. He has backed that up this year. So how does that support your argument?

BTW, I heard that there is a young footballer in the draft with the same birthday as Gary Ablett senior. Should we pullout all guns and get him?

For mine one of the most disappointing aspects of Miller's game is his tackling. For someone of his size, strength, athleticism and aggression, he lets men get around him far too often, usually just sticking one paw out in a feeble attempt to stop them.

Part of it is his limitations to read the play and other players. However I thought his sideways movement is limited. Is he still suffering OP?

got to feel for the poor bugger ,,,nd doesnt have a clue where to position him

And the poor bloke (Brad Miller) doesnt know whether he is a foward or a backman

The MFC should make their minds up put him in a position and leave him There

My opinoin is he should stay Back but hey thats my opinion

Yeah theres nothing I like more than after a loss to kick the [censored] out of our young blokes. Because they're the reason we lost right?

Drop Dunn for 426

Drop Bartram for Read

when your in the hunt for september glory and have a side that is known for end of season fade outs i think you need leadership, miller gives us that. it is essential also in a kkp like CHF. its not kicking the [censored] out of them...its reality

when your in the hunt for september glory and have a side that is known for end of season fade outs i think you need leadership, miller gives us that.

How does Miller give us leadership?

By getting himself reported and suspended with macho bravado before the match has begun?

By turning in consistently sub-standard performances?

By refusing to impose himself on a match when he's constantly touted as a big, bad, bustling centre half forward?

Miller will never be a good leader because he will never be a good footballer...

How does Miller give us leadership?

By getting himself reported and suspended with macho bravado before the match has begun?

By turning in consistently sub-standard performances?

By refusing to impose himself on a match when he's constantly touted as a big, bad, bustling centre half forward?

Miller will never be a good leader because he will never be a good footballer...

well im melbourne coaching staff think he is as do the players, he obviously has great leadership abilty ot else he wouldnt be in the leadership group

also last year he was a great footballer and a great leader...still got reported still did the marcho stuff, yet this website loved him...whats changed a couple of bellow games in the back line which is not his best possition???

Sorry Chook. he was neither last year.

His elevation to the leadership ranks reflects the dearth of true leaders in the Club.

Sorry Chook. he was neither last year.

His elevation to the leadership ranks reflects the dearth of true leaders in the Club.

hmmm dunno about a lack of depth in the leadership catagory...i reakon we have a host of willing vice captains with only one captain...

so lack of captains yes, lack of leadershop maybe not

so lack of captains yes, lack of leadershop maybe not

You have a valid point. There's no doubt that ND and the club have held Miller in high regard. He didn't make the small leadership group on the back of his talent.

No doubt everyone is disappointed with his progress this year, not least Miller himself. That said, he's not good enough.

Who here thinks he would have made the Brisbane side that won 3 flags ?

Who here thinks he would have made the Brisbane side that won 3 flags ?

Neita wouldn't get a game for them either, and he is an excellent captain.

If LRT can win a flag as a defender, so can Miller.

Neita wouldn't get a game for them either, and he is an excellent captain.

If LRT can win a flag as a defender, so can Miller.

At least Neitz would've made them think.

And I'd have LRT over Miller any day.

At least Neitz would've made them think.

And I'd have LRT over Miller any day.

LRT is a less talented version of Ryan Ferguson. At least Ferguson has courage by the bucket-loads and can kick the ball.

One bad season from Miller, due mainly to injury, is no reason to pack his bags and send him away. He has done more than Sylvia (number 3 pick) and Bell (number 15 pick). Patience is a virtue nobody seems to have anymore.