I think that's probably why Bailey keeps talking about not only getting games into players but having the core of the team play 50 or 60 games together. The chemistry of the team is massively different to the team of round 1 2009 and unrecognisable when compared to the team Bailey inherited. People who understand football keep using words like "patience" and "time" for a reason. It's hard to stomach but this team is younger than last years and much younger than the one smashed by Hawthorn 2 years ago. Not only are the younger but they're youngest where it matters most - in the middle! I'm as disappointed as the next person but the source of my disappointment are the same players who've disappointed me for some time. And it's for that reason that I can probably move on quicker than most. I saw the future yesterday and it wasn't all bad. Any team with three dominant, centre-square midfielders will go a long way to winning games. Yesterday, Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis proved that. In a couple of years and maybe even a couple of months, Grimes, Scully and Trengove will do the same.

Thanks for this post - cheered me up a bit :0

I thought he was being more than generous by responding to your tweet.

Was not my tweet just posting it for everyone on here

Thanks for this post - cheered me up a bit :0

yeah, Goodvibes is quite the astute poster.

Kudos GV.

Was about to give up on this ridiculous thread until I noticed he made a contribution.

The more I read this forum, the more I realize that a lot of people may support MFC, even through this tough time, but that doesn't necessarily mean they understand much at all about the game.

It's a shame.

Most of our players would look very different in a top-4 side.

That is a remarkable statement! If 'most' of them are actually pretty good, why aren't we a top 4 side?

Well, I can see what you're getting at. We are not a top-4 TEAM. Our boys have not been coached or drilled to play as a TEAM.

But, I would still disagree with the word 'most'. On the strength of yesterday's match, the following will never 'look very different':

Miller, Jones, Junior, Bruce, Spencer, Moloney, Dunn.

Some respected names there - but Junior and Bruce are simply not doing anywhere near enough with the ball; they treat it like a wet biscuit, afraid it'll fall apart if they kick it too hard or hand-ball it above waist height. Or something. I don't know, they just don't seem to kick with any penetration. No value. Jones hardly ever gets a touch without being grabbed by an opponent. Spencer is a bit lumbering; maybe he'll improve, I could be a bit harsh. Moloney blazes away. Miller and Dunn left me speechless.

These I'll reserve judgement on for different reasons:

Joel Mc, Petterd, Warnock, Strauss, Bennell, McKenzie, Bate.

Either new, young, returning from injury, look good at times, showed a bit yesterday etc.

These WOULD look very different in a top-4 side, or already look good:

Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Davey, Green, Jamar. Maybe Frawley and Rivers.

Perhaps there are another few including Sylvia and Morton, Jurrah if he bulks up, who would fit nicely into a top-4 side.

The most disappointing players yesterday, if any can be singled out, were Miller, Dunn and Bate. I'll give the Master the benefit of the doubt after having been injured; I think he was under-done. Lynden is just over-Dunn and over-rated, Miller was terrible.

I gave up counting the number of times Dunn and Miller dropped marks.

But, the worst thing of all is the lack of intensity, hard running, position-making, backing up, a sense of purpose. Our boys are always second to the ball. They are simply not decisive in any of their actions. It's not 'game-plan', it's just failure to do the most basic things. I think this is the coach's fault. As I said in another thread - 6 months of training, and what has changed? Again, Melbourne were the first to start training, a fortnight after the grand final, and what is there to show for it in terms of HOW THEY PLAY AS A TEAM?

Pressure comes from the fact that Hawthorn are a better drilled team and want the ball more. But there is also another factor that has been clear since round 1, 2007 that other people are only now starting to pick up on. That is, there are no options up forward. And by "forward", I don't just mean the forward line, I mean forward of the ball. Furthermore, by "options" I mean anyone, not just big forwards.

The point is, if a player has the ball on the half back line, looks up and has no options up forward then they are forced to chip and handpass ("fart arse") sideways. If there are clear options (players who aren't outnumbered) up forward then they don't need to. The more time spent chipping and handpassing around means the more time Hawthorn had to apply pressure to the ball carrier who is looking for options. The more pressure the ball carrier is under the more likely they are to turn the ball over.

Brilliant, Absolutely correct.

I can't understand all this 'we've got to get 50 games into the kids stuff'. These things are so basic, and have been missing for the last three years.

In the first game of 2007, after appearing in the finals the year before with one good win against St-K. after 15 minutes of the first quarter I said to my fellow masochist, 'This team is physically and mentally unprepared for AFL football.'

Nothing has changed. I hoped it would have, yesterday, even if we lost. But it hasn't. Cameron's excuses and all the others about getting games into them have worn very thin. The way they played yesterday was shameful.

It was the ones with the least games under their belts, who played the best, showed the most! That's the irony, the paradox, which undermines the usual excuse.

We stuff around on the halfbackline/wing because we have stuff all forwards.

Brown/Fev kicked 8 last night and Fev should have kicked 6.

If those 2 played for us yesterday,we'd be a totally different team,we'd be going long off half back to the 2 big targets instead of [censored] around with 2 foot handballs and then turning it over,bang goal to Hawks!!!

We don't have those 2 gun forwards,we have Miller and Petterd.

We just have to make do with what we've got,which won't win us any games.

What score would we kick if this was our forward line:

Bate..Brown..Sylvia

Davey..Fevola..Jurruh

A lot of our problems would disappear and NO-ONE would be calling for Bailey's head,but he has to work with the injured cattle he's got,Period!