I'm not as negativie towards this guy as some others and I think there's still hope that he can come good, I'm not saying that I think he'll dominate at AFL level, just that we shouldn't write him off just yet.

My reasoning is that over the last couple of seasons he hasn't really played that much footy due to injuries, and as well all know the bigger guys can take a little longer to develop, so he's been hit hard from all angles. He was always going to take at least a season to get back into the swing of things but once he gets his confidence, fitness and his timing back I think he's a chance to pressure both PJ and Jamar for a ruck spot.

He's so far behind the other three at the moment I just can't see him breaking into the team.

He's so far behind the other three at the moment I just can't see him breaking into the team.

I agree that this year he's up against it.

I agree Jarka. It's taken PJ and Jamar a very long time to come on the way they have, and IMO these guys both prove the rule that talls take a long time to develop. Meesen has athleticism and skills that are rare for a man so big. He deserves another year at least before dismissing him IMO.

PJ came onto the list at roughly the same age (maybe a year younger) and took a few years to get to the stage he's at now, where the fans are getting excited about him...

Apart from the fact he was pretty badly injured, we should probably allow for Meesen to take a similar amount of time.

He's a ruckman. I'd only start calling for his head if he's not showing anything by age 24/25...

I agree Jarka. It's taken PJ and Jamar a very long time to come on the way they have, and IMO these guys both prove the rule that talls take a long time to develop. Meesen has athleticism and skills that are rare for a man so big. He deserves another year at least before dismissing him IMO.

Jamar did a great job crashing into Sandilands last week but he's a very limited footballer

Well if he can crash into Sandilands, Cox, Ottens eg the decent ruckman and nullify their influence on the game then he's done his job

He's a ruckman. I'd only start calling for his head if he's not showing anything by age 24/25...

This line seems to be thrown around a lot, I do not see any basis for it though.

Some quality ruckmen have taken until this age to really start dominating, featuring in AA sides and the like, however the norm seems to be that they were showing genuine signs of being best 22 ruckmen from a much younger age. The only exception seems to be Sandilands, he is also the only ruckmen even close to let alone taller than 210cms though, so he's hardly the norm.

Charman, Ottens, Cox, White, etc were all either winning premierships or featuring in B&Fs or AAs in their early 20s.

As for the younger bridge coming through now - Kruezer, Leunberger, McIntosh - all in their early 20s or younger.

Quality ruckmen do not take until 24/25 to start showing something. Mediocre ones might, why would we want one of them though?

This line seems to be thrown around a lot, I do not see any basis for it though.

Some quality ruckmen have taken until this age to really start dominating, featuring in AA sides and the like, however the norm seems to be that they were showing genuine signs of being best 22 ruckmen from a much younger age. The only exception seems to be Sandilands, he is also the only ruckmen even close to let alone taller than 210cms though, so he's hardly the norm.

Charman, Ottens, Cox, White, etc were all either winning premierships or featuring in B&Fs or AAs in their early 20s.

As for the younger bridge coming through now - Kruezer, Leunberger, McIntosh - all in their early 20s or younger.

Quality ruckmen do not take until 24/25 to start showing something. Mediocre ones might, why would we want one of them though?

Meesen is 2 years younger than McIntosh and his first good year was last year. By that logic, we should hope that Meesen really takes a step forward next year.

Charman was winning premierships with Brisbane (1 premiership - 2003) but as a 2nd/3rd string ruckman averaging less than 10 possessions a game.

Ottens is a star but you wouldn't say he ever grabbed a season by the scruff of the neck until last year.

Cox probably came into the top bracket around 22/23 so that's a fair call.

Leuenberger and Kruezer haven't done enough yet to justify the call.

The real issue is their body shape and growth patterns. Are they built like a tank (Ottens/Cox) or like Bambi (McIntosh/Westhoff)?

Meesen is 2 years younger than McIntosh and his first good year was last year. By that logic, we should hope that Meesen really takes a step forward next year.

Charman was winning premierships with Brisbane (1 premiership - 2003) but as a 2nd/3rd string ruckman averaging less than 10 possessions a game.

Ottens is a star but you wouldn't say he ever grabbed a season by the scruff of the neck until last year.

Cox probably came into the top bracket around 22/23 so that's a fair call.

Leuenberger and Kruezer haven't done enough yet to justify the call.

The real issue is their body shape and growth patterns. Are they built like a tank (Ottens/Cox) or like Bambi (McIntosh/Westhoff)?

Exactly, Meesen should be taking serious steps forward next year when he's 23, as opposed to the following year or the year after that, when he is 24/25.

Charman played close to every game that year and proved that he had a future as a No 1 ruckman and he was only 20.

Ottens was AA when he was 21? I never mentioned grubbing games by the scruff of the neck, I am merely going on this 'showing something' basis everyone bangs on about.

Leunberger and Kruezer have shown at least as much promise, arguably more than Jamar, Johnson and Meesen put together, and they are 3, 4 or 5 years younger than them.

Body shape and growth patterns come into it for sure, when they are 20 or 21 or 22, if you are still clutching onto that one to justify hanging onto 24 or 25 year olds that are yet to prove their worth then I think thats a problem.

Exactly, Meesen should be taking serious steps forward next year when he's 23, as opposed to the following year or the year after that, when he is 24/25.

Don't disagree with that at all. He should be at least a genuine contender for a senior spot by late this year or early next at the latest (ie. Two full pre-seasons with the club). If not, that would be a serious problem for him.