Earl Hood

The swans get to pay an extra million in there salary cap. A huge bonus in retaining and attracting players we can afford to even pay 100% of our smaller salary cap...

Add their Academy and some exclusive NSW zones but gee that's nothing compared to the idea of draft assistance to us. You can't reward failure.

Record low number of votes for a club since 1924, that's my prediction. Lucky the Commission did not get to look at that stat.

Is there any way I can blame Brock McLean for this decision?

I am just wanting to up date my hate file that's all.

Just as well the decision was finalised today prior to the Brownlow count when MFC will no doubt set a record for the lowest number of club votes ever recorded since 1924. That wouldn't be a good stat for AD to put up for PP discussion.

the Commission whoever they are, spineless, drones everyone of them are a waste of space. However I am stoked that we have all this talent lined up it is just a matter of getting games into the kids and it will just happen. Oh hold on haven't we been here before circa 2009/10 when many people thought it would just happen. It doesn't necessarily as we know. Haven't we been pilloried for our inability to develop kids and haven't we burnt so many first round picks that we don't deserve help. We can't reward failure of course. But then what do you reward with draft assistance?

According to AD Hogan, Toumpas and co are going to be superstars I can't wait. Lets not make decisions based on empirical data that we have but rather let us look into the crystal ball of what might happen. Lets hope AD is right.

That's how I recall Balme's tenure as well. He was cruelled by injury, not just for a few games but for seasons. I still can't quite wipe out the memory of a loss at Port Adelaide where we were so short of manpower that our "tall forwards" were The Wiz & Sean Charles.

Agree. I never thought Balme was a dud coach. I am sure I can remember some weeks when we were so undermanned circa 1996/97 that we had to play both Cockatoo Collins kids because there was no one else on the list fit. We had a list full of X factor players who we could not get on the park together. And if I remember correctly in 1997 we got TJ at number one and picked up Leoncelli as well as two McDonalds and Robbo in the first ever rookie draft. We made a killing that year. Picking up White in 98 would have set us up no matter who was coach.

And then we had Joe Gutnick and the salary cap punishments a year later!

Oh. well.

I will take pick 19 but gee is this equalisation? They have just come back from their intense study tour into equalisation to the USA and all I have heard from the fat cat Presidents who got the invite is that it should not include priority picks, draft assistance of any type or monetary help. So it is a very subtle and sophisticated formula for success that we are yet to hear of.i wonder what it includes? Maybe condolences that "we feel your pain but trust us things will get better, you have had injuries and you have some good recruits, stick with it and accept your position as a second tier side to be reamed each season as required. We will take the points, the percentage and any kids you have developed in the meantime.

Nick Smith really impresses me at the Swans.

It seems to me he's not really given the kudos , responsibility or promotion he deserves at Sydney.

He has a defensive role seemingly in the full back line, where he always seems to do a good job.

I think he shows the strength, skill and discipline to be a midfielder. Any chance Roos could tempt him across?

Gee I thought you were referring to 4to6 who played for us and last heard of playing for Balwyn in the EFL!

If today's Herald Sun report is accurate the game has been brought into disrepute.

It says that due to the war waged by the clubs in opposition to our request for a PP, they have succeeded in getting the AFL to deny us a pre draft pick and at best we will get an end of round 1 pick if anything at all.

Forget about what the criteria is or the fact that there is an independent board to decide the issue, lobbying has bypassed this if the report is accurate and the AFL has abandoned its own rules once again and catered to the vocal majority or minority.

Therefore should we now lobby with other disadvantaged clubs for equal fixturing and salary caps etc due to our outrage at what is going on?

The AFL if it has acted on the pressure of a lobby group has allowed itself and them to bring the game into disrepute.

Hey Redleg it was you who pointed out to me about AD's exact words in his claim that of the 17 clubs that are not Melbourne, those that have contacted the AFL have said no thanks. I assumed that meant 17 clubs you said no and pointed out that it was only those clubs that had contacted the AFL. So do we have a 17 club mutiny or don't we? How many clubs contacted the AFL I wonder, no one has asked Andrew. The media originally interpreted AD comment as 17 clubs were against the PP and then Damian Barrett reported that there was a mutiny brewing and we have just moved on from there. This morning in the Hun it was 17 clubs would be livid if we got draft assistance. This whole idea is running off AD original comments, I believe. But it is working against our cause.

. I think the whole thing is a beat up started by AD and the media have since just run with it. However this is exactly what AD wants so as to influence the Commision members who Also read the newspapers but hopefully for our sake do not believe there is a mutiny brewing. Why the hell would there be? All17 clubs have taken it in turns to give us an absolute belting and were happy to take the points and percentage but now are incensed should we get some help. Give me a break.

And if GWS has complained all 17 clubs who are not GWS should be absolutely staggered.

Didn't they also get David Cordner off us?

I'm not sure that was a big loss for us.

I have a long memory and I still hurt when I think of how Sydney poached our best up and comer, Gerard Healy way back in Doc Edelstein's time.

I have never forgiven the Swans, or Healy, for that matter.

Poaching Perris would be a drop in the ocean compared with what Sydney did to us, but it would be a good start towards suitable retribution.

You can add Kevin Dyson as well.

Howe Dawes Watts

Hogan Clark Fitzpatrick

No team has been in a position to field so many talls concurrently. Can it work? Should we give it a go? Personally, I'm already salivating at the thought of Hogan attracting the 4th tall defender (aka a back pocket).

Discuss.

If only we had given Neeld more time to get in more tall timber. Clark, Dawes, Hogan added to Watts, Fitzy and Howe who plays tall and the resting ruckman; are we tall enough yet?

Thanks and I thought Reid turned a blind eye to a supplements program he documented 18 months as unethical and possibly illegal.

The players should be thanking the good doctor for his support and involvement in the successful program.

If you had read the article Caro had paid out on the AFL and rightly so. Nothing she said on the Doctor had not been said before,

Hmmm I just re-read Caro's article I stand by my comments. She is writing on behalf of the AFL in my opinion. The charges have been dropped but of course as a result the Doctor's case has not been heard in full so there is still scope to throw some mud about what he should have done. The AFL pulled out of the case because it had jackshyte real evidence on the Doc.

Yes in hindsight we should all be heroes but most people are human and have to operate within organisations, hierarchies, cultures and so on. The Doc seems to have put his concerns in writing expecting they would be taken seriously. I suspect they were not and those involved worked around him once they knew of his concerned. It then took six months to a year for others to realise there was a problem.

Heffernan was an okay player, didn't have an issue with him

Lacked a sense of urgency when he played with us. Not sure he was really interested at all, going through the motions I thought and gee we could have used a real goer in those years when we were actually competitive.

Gee I just read Caro's article and saw as nothing more than an AFL sponsored pay back at Reid. He may be culpable but as usual the AFL had stuff all real evidence that would stand up under the intense scrutiny of a court. As usual Vlad didn't like it and has called in their favours from Caro to do the dirt file on the Doctor. Caro owes them for all the leaks from the AFL, e.g. the MFC not tanking case, you know the ashen faces and meetings in the vault that all came straight out of AFL HQ. Caro lives off the scraps thrown out from the AFL and here again she is just a pen for hire. Zero integrity In my mind. Just check Vlad's agenda as you read her articles to understand where she is coming from.

He was but both of them drove me nuts.

Do we really know how good or bad Bails was? In 2010 we looked to be headed in the right direction and he was coaching with next to no resources and had clowns doing the recruiting. The wheels fell off the next year and since we have come to understand the full extent of the dysfunctionalty of those above him. He took the fall with grace, the others have all since been given the kybosch. I suspect that he is competent enough to fill the role at EFC.

Not sure I can agree due to Andrew Dimwits public and very poorly worded response about 17 other clubs saying no, even though Redleg has pointed out that he actually said something less categoric. What is he up to? He is part of the Commission that will consider our application. Is he lobbying the rest of the Commission? He would know the secret formula and that we surely qualify but it is still a discretionary decision by the Commission and so the decision can be influenced.

I think I can answer my own question. I was trying to work out AD strange use of words as in "of the 17 clubs that are not Melbourne,"...,those that have contacted me have said no thanks! He has actually been very cunning here, I think. Everyone has jumped on the key words 17 other clubs and no thanks and assumed all clubs have written to the AFL vehemently opposed to the idea of a PP for us.It was initially reported this way and Damien Barrat jumped in with idea of a revolt by all clubs if the Commission finds in our favour. This a classic case of the CEO using his position to influence the Commissions thinking. How many clubs actually wrote to him, it may be only one but the media has run off looking for a revolution that is not brewing. AD can't tell the Commission what to do but he is trying to persuade them to his wish that we do not get a PP.

I'm starting to think we might actually get one. Why? We haven't heard anything public out of the MFC about the PP since the Roos announcement press conference. If Jackson and Roos thought it was in trouble they would have gone public. They haven't. I think they know how this one is going to turn out.

Not sure I can agree due to Andrew Dimwits public and very poorly worded response about 17 other clubs saying no, even though Redleg has pointed out that he actually said something less categoric. What is he up to? He is part of the Commission that will consider our application. Is he lobbying the rest of the Commission? He would know the secret formula and that we surely qualify but it is still a discretionary decision by the Commission and so the decision can be influenced.

People are kidding themselves if they think we'll be getting one.

We have been given Roos on a silver platter because of the state of our club.

Things will change without a PP and I'm happy we won't receive one. We should pay for our pathetic actions.

And we aren't paying now for our actions? How much more self flagellation do you want? Me I have had a gut full this year, no AFL team has ever trawled lower depths of ineptitude than we did this year. I'll take any help we can get.

Well i can announce that I haven't been approached.

I don't normally comment on rumour and innuendo but I figure I may as well put an end to the scuttlebutt.

Not surprised, aren't you sailing a prawn trawler up north somewhere these days? Where would you find the time?

Actually AD said that of the other 17 clubs who are not Melbourne who have written to the AFL they were against it.

He is not saying all 17 clubs complained. I am pretty sure for starters that GC and GWS wouldn't .

Redleg I am confused 17 said no, doesn't that include the Hypocrites?

We have Roos, check. We have Allison, forward coach, check. But we need an Einstein of a midfield coach. Who is it going to be? That is one of our biggest selections for next season.

Perhaps we didn't like CW's version of the "facts" because what she was doing was giving credence to one version - that of three disgruntled and vindictive ex-employees of the exotically named "Vault" story - and gave no credence whatsoever to the other version put forward by the majority in place at the time? Perhaps, because the story she told of an "ashen-faced" Cameron Schwab after the Port Adelaide win was a fabrication which she accepted and published as truth? Perhaps because only a complete f***wit would interpret as fact what Chris Connolly joked about when he said "Jimmy fell out of his hospital bed"? Perhaps it's because everything about the issue of tanking/list management was about perception and, as Goebells taught the world many years ago, that a lie told often enough will be believed by the mugs.

The truth is we are the worst performed AFL club for a multitude of reasons and should be given draft assistance while, for altruistic reasons, there are people who are fighting us.

By the way has that 800 page MFC "tanking" investigation of hearsay evidence from disgruntled former employees ever

seen the light of day outside AD and Gilligan's offices?

I started this thread about the attempt by other clubs to influence the AFL on granting us a PP.

Having read the last 6 pages I have not changed my mind.

I feel that by engaging in this public pressure and according to AD, private as well, those clubs are bringing the game into disrepute.

They should let the AFL decision Board do its job.

The effect of this will be, if we are refused a PP or given a poor one, the public may well suspect that the AFL has cowtowed to a bunch of clubs acting as vigilantes and thereby they have brought the game into disrepute.

My point is not about whether or not we get a PP, but rather the unseemly attempt by some clubs to pervert the decision making process.

If that gets a result for those clubs and is accepted as proepr behaviour in the AFL, then I would urge us to go public if Buddy and/or Thomas leave, to stop any compensation to those clubs, which will affect the purity of the draft.

Sorry I have been away and haven't read all the posts but has anyone noted that AD said all 17 other clubs said no to a pp for us? That means GWS and Suns protested!!! I mean does the word HYPOCRITES come to mind. They have already gone past us and continue to pick up extra priority picks, bloated salary caps and exclusive zones. I mean really!

I believe the objection from the other clubs falls under the "don't give a sucker an even break" clause.

Or it reflects the same attitude many people have to the long term unemployed; they are lazy, incompetent and want to be unemployed so we should not be rewarding their indolence with higher benefits. I think the MFC being on AFL welfare is viewed with similar contempt, we don't deserve help because it is all our own fault.

It's about outcomes, not who deserves what, we need help on the field and off it if the competition is going to start to equalise. The level of our ineptitude on the field has never been seen before at AFL level.

Good heavens GWS and the Suns have gone past us but continue to get multiple first round picks via the earlier mini drafts as well continuing exclusive zones. Hypocritically 2 of the clubs complaining are GWS and the Suns.

That said listening to Andrew D this week, I think we will get jackshyte draft assistance this year.

Half the bloody list, hopefully.

In comparison to the last two seasons what is our definition of "breakout"? If some players suddenly start winning contested balls, breaking away at speed and spotting up a forward lace out. That would be breakout. So it could be half the side! If we manage to set up correctly and consistently execute the point kick outs to our advantage that would be breakout to me as well.