Dee Fan

Petracca is a beast.

Interestingly when we played the Saints they were without some of their better mids and they beat us in the clearances as well.

I'd like to be as sure of winning Tattslotto.

That's probably true but he's a bit like Jack, he has some good games and some bad games, but he's not really consistent, even during games. I've watched him a bit lately and he seems to spectate quite a lot, just meandering along side the play without getting involved. $1m per year; I don't think so.

It's been a long hard day for me today, so perhaps I misread you, but I have tried to get out of this debate as it's pointless, so I just want to let others talk about it if they feel the need.

Well if you can't accept we made a blunder then you obviously feel that Toumpass is a better player than Wines and if that's the case then you are entitled to that opinion. This keeps coming up in thread after thread and I try to keep out of it but sometimes i get involved, this time I got involved and to be honest i can't recall why, however it's my belief that we should try to move on from it and leave it at that. Perhaps we should start a poll to see who feels Toumpass or Wines is the better player and put it to rest for al time, then we can get on with the job of giving our advice to the club about who we should keep/delist and who should play where. With regard to changing history or learning from it, I'm in the camp of remembering and learning so we don't repeat the same mistake again, that's if you accept we made a mistake in the first place. I don't need a chorus line to justify my position, I'm pretty sure I got it right, then and now. On the Watts, Nik Nat debate, that has pretty much settled down and there doesn't seem to be much argument on that at all, it's more about whether Jack has what it takes to play the game and I'm on the side of he does.

I stand corrected, but can you get rid of the photo, it brings back many bad memories.

I only mentioned Terlich because he was the only other player on the ground, that I saw, that had the ball go through his legs and clean bowl him. I've been a fan of Frawley but I guess I just got sick of him costing us goals and he does it every week; this week it cost us the game. He makes many poor decisions that other players aren't allowed to get away with.

Who knows? Well he no longer plays football so I doubt he will get another chance.

Come on Mono, give me a break, Wines would play well in any team, there are plenty of big young players that are in poor sides and still do well in their first, second and subsequent years. We made a blunder and the sooner we accept that the sooner we can move on. It took 2 years before some on here could see that Cook wasn't up to it and even then they were disappointed when he was delisted. I'm a real big fan of Jack Trengove but if his pace doesn't improve I accept he may not make it; that's life. The only reason Toumpass gets dragged in to these threads is you can see a number of players taken before and after him that are doing well and he's struggling.

So you think Cook might still make it?

I think at the time we were accused of being impatient because we wanted players that could play now, not maybe in 2 or 3 years down the track. How silly of us wanting players that had shown they were up to it and not just accepting the unknown from the ones we picked who had done nothing. Such impatience Old, why would you want to start winning games immediately.

So on the basis of one game by Salem and one game by Mcrae, you are hailing one and writing the other one off; you're a good judge aren't you. I haven't said Salem is a dud, or not up to it, I think he will be a very good player for us and if you think Liberatore isn't then you haven't got a clue.

Bernie is close to my favourite player at the club but we only got him because Adelaide wanted to get back in to the draft.

What I'm saying is, you have a choice of picking a ready made player like Wines who has the body to contribute immediately or you pick a player who you believe will be a very good player but needs time. At this point in time the choice of Wines has been vindicated by his outstanding performance on the field whereas the performances of Toumpass haven't shown he will be anywhere the player we hoped he would be. You can usually tell after a season or so if a player has the goods, look at Macrae, Stringer and Bontempelli, they were all in Footscray's best yesterday and were picked last year and this year, but Toumpass can't get a game with a side that is near the bottom of the ladder and has shown nothing to indicate that he will make it in AFL. I'm hopeful that he will turn out to be a very good player, but at this time I just don't see in him what the recruiters did. I just get p1ssed off when we make excuses as to why he needs time when other players don't seem to and we do it all the time. Big guys need time, young kids need time, it's always the same excuse on Demonland, just look around and see the type of football other draftees are playing. Anyway I don't want to go on about this, I've said what I want to say and given my opinion others can make up their own minds.

I wasn't suggesting that we pick players from the VFL, not sure where you get that from my post. What I was saying is we should rethink picking players based on their form in the SANFL, Terlich, Georgiou, Tapscott, Toumpass and even Trenners.

"They give the young ones time. Give the likes of Toumpas, Salem and Barry time to grow. ​That was what I was responding and the fact that there are many players that were picked around the same time as Toumpass and they are playing good football so you can't just say he needs time when all around him don't seem to need it. Toumpass is just one in a litany of errors our recruiters have made and we have to face up to it that we don't have talent below waiting to push their way in to the side. I'd like to see him promoted in to the team next week and given a chance to see what he's got; I certainly don't want to see him go the way of Strauss, Blease and Tapscott who are struggling after a few years in the seconds. i was totally p1ssed when we didn't pick wines but I'm over that I was totally p1ssed when we picked Cook, over anyone but I'm over that; I just get sick of hearing that Toumpass needs time when other players of similar vintage are al performing well. We have picked several players that have played well in the SANFL and I'm beginning to think that it is a very poor competition and that we shouldn't take much notice of the form there.

Perhaps that's because this is a thread about Frawley. There were plenty of poor decisions made by our players today and perhaps we should start a thread about each player.

Dawes seems to get put off rather easily if he is under pressure from the defender, he's a much better mark on a strong lead. Trouble is most of our inside 50 kicks to him are on his head making it easy for the defender, he probably should have his hands further out in front of him.

That may be so but one of the best players for the winners today was Bontempelli, pick 4 this year. Then you have several players picked after Toumpass playing regular one's and playing well. I understand we picked Toumpass and he's a Melbourne player now so I hope he starts to play some good football. Thing is it's just as bad to try to justify the choice as it is to denigrate it; there's no way you can argue we made the right choice. We are in an awkward position, Roos has to try to win games to keep the supporters happy; Casey doesn't allow him to develop those new to the club; we have to balance out picking youth over experience at draft time. It's not a great position to be in, the Dogs and Brisbane have gone for youth but if it fails they are in the shyte,; should we do the same or try to rebuild using trades and later draft picks.

I've been in the keep him camp until today I thought some of his lapses cost us the game and when the ball went through his legs it was embarrassing. Terlich got clean bowled too, how can that happen to AFL footballers.

Couple of weeks ago I would have said we would win maybe 4 on the way home but we have dropped off the pace and I reckon we've gone backwards. Make no mistake the Bulldogs had a very depleted side today and they still beat us so we are no fancies to beat GWS or Brisbane.

He's surrounded by poor quality teammates and he expects too much of them; he expects them to give him an option when he gets the ball. Unfortunately a number of them don't know where to go or how give him protection so he can advance the ball.

It seems that if you stop Jones you cut off our midfield clearances and they did that in the first half, he needs the others to step up a bit. We have to get at least two more quality mids and if we have to draft them in, then so be it, you don't get too many clubs giving up quality for draft picks.

Good footballers don't continually make basic mistakes and Frawley does.