Grapeviney

Let's hope so. It might be nothing more than common courtesy on Clark's behalf, which is the very least he owes MFC.

It's nice to have a clinical perspective from one of Mitch's doctors. Thanks.

At no stage did I say BT's account was gospel. In fact, I qualified it with this rider: "Make of it what you will." You're right in that we all have different opinions about journos and the reliability and accuracy of their stories. I'm inclined to believe that the info that's out there on this one - including BT's - is close to bang on. Let's face it, it doesn't paint H in a particularly good light. If it was largely untrue, or there was an alternative version of events, either H or his manager would have moved to set the record straight by now.

BT had a fairly detailed account of what happened on 3AW tonight. It began at the end of a regular tactics meeting, where H got up and gave a long talk expressing his concerns over the environment at the club (presumably locker-room homophobia or similar behaviour). It went on for some time and two senior players got up to bring it to an end, saying it was not the right forum to bring it up, at a tactics meeting. At some point Rocket Eade organised a full team meeting specifically to address H's concerns, and I think they were largely allayed. Then he saw the defaced photo on the noticeboard and demanded a meeting with Buckley where he expressed the sentiment that it was an "unsafe work environment". It was a hostile meeting apparently that ended with Bucks and H all but agreeing he should finish up. They agreed to let it sit overnight and apparently H came back the next day and was a lot more amenable. Well, that's what I can remember BT saying - I may have mixed the order up a bit. Make of it what you will. I've got no issues if a player has a strong social conscience. I wouldn't be happy if he brought those issues into tactics meetings or training or other times when we should be concentrating on footy.

Hawthorn's hands around the contest are just superb. It's not just skill execution, it's the way they set up - they just seem to be perfectly placed to pass it around until someone has the time and space to clear it properly. It's heartbreaking to watch footy this good.

"This club has changed forever; it will never go back to where it was." It's arguable whether he was talking about the past 8 years or referring to our Golden Age in the 50's and 60's )

Please continue the discussion here: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37226-the-heretier-lumumba-thread/page-3#entry983702

I think he's placed about right. Didn't have a great year. Disposal is patchy sometimes, averaged fewer clearances this year than last and doesn't really hit the scoreboard. Never stops going and is Tonka tough but his efforts don't always impact on the game. Placing 11th in his second year is no slight, and he's only going to improve with more games.

Driving taxis? You can only be referring to Indians and Pakistanis. Why not say so? I don't agree with your proposition anyway. Many of those taxi drivers have degrees and double degrees and cannot get work in their chosen fields - they bust a gut doing work for which they are overqualified so they can feed their families and send their kids to good schools. Hard work, aspiration for a better life - sounds pretty Australian to me (in terms of how 'we' see ourselves).

I'm not sure what the common thread is that you see in those cultures / countries that makes them a suitable fit for Australia. I guess what I'm asking is: who do you think we should keep out?

Finally, a nice balanced piece of reporting. Virtually echoes what I said earlier in the thread: "och jag ber förbehållslöst om ursäkt till alla vi har kränkt, säger tränaren Paul Roos".

Yeh forgot about that... amateur hour! I don't think that episode will hurt him though. It's very 'inside the beltway' kinda stuff - fascinating for the media and political staffers, but fairly meaningless for the public at large. I doubt many followed it closely or could even recall what happened and how etc Fair call, but I don't get what you mean about 'neither team really wanting to win'? Surely the one quality that the politicians possess which most MFC players don't have is ambition!

Doesn't that happen in other places too? Even in other democracies? Places like Ferguson, Missouri in the US of A? Didn't they have to call in the National Guard?

I'm pretty sure they said on 3AW tonight that the squad hasn't been chosen that way this year - to fill positions. They've picked the best 40 in the league, not a balanced team sort of thing with 6 backs, 6 forwards x midfielders etc

Indonesia says hello. No, they don't have a perfect democracy yet, but they are well on the way.

I liked Clisby last season, and he would be lamenting the fact that he had an injury-interrupted pre-season and also was injured during the year.

So we're only a few months out from the State Election. I'm pretty sure Newspoll has Labor ahead, but Opposition Leader Daniel Andrews - now promoting himself as 'Dan' Andrews - is trailing Napthine in the preferred Premier stakes, which is usually an important indicator. Anyone think the Reds are in with a chance? It's rare for Governments to be thrown out after one term only, and this Government - despite the loss of Baillieu, the Tristan Weston police chief fiasco, and the Geoff Shaw farce - has probably been inoffensive enough to sneak home for a second crack. Having said that, it's basically a one-point ballgame at the moment in terms of numbers in Parliament, so anything's possible if even just a few seats change hands. Whaddya reckon?

I don't know what it is either, but I'm guessing it's not legal

I get it, I just think we can and should do both. The Royal Commission is finally exposing the truth behind the church (and other institutions') abhorrent behaviour, and rarely a day goes by when it's not prominent in the media. Expressing disapproval over these far less serious antics doesn't detract from the bigger and more important fight, in fact I think it complements it. We can walk and chew gum at the same time - it need not be an either / or situation.

I love Jewish humour but I've never heard a Holocaust joke (well, not one that wasn't anti-semitic), and especially not one from a survivor, no matter how black their humour is. I love comedy and that includes edgy, confronting comedy, but I don't think I've ever heard child abuse jokes, or genocide jokes.

So not such a Top Gun after all?

How does satirising child abuse make us a better society? Why can't we show compassion and care for the Kim Duthie's of this world and do the same for victims of abuse. It's got nothing to do with Rolf's victims - I think anyone who has been abused would find it in poor taste, and I don't know what's to be achieved by convincing them that they should just laugh it off. Humour is a wonderful coping mechanism but I doubt it's used to help child abuse victims overcome their trauma. Read back your words - is that really how you would respond to an abuse victim who thinks the joke offensive? To be 'humble' and 'accepting' and 'don't take yourself too seriously'?

People who think this is an example of political correctness 'gone mad' don't understand that concept. Political correctness suggests the imposition of ideas or values that transform what was once an acceptable act into something that is now taboo or outdated - banning Christmas celebrations for fear of offending other religions. We're not under some sort of intellectual assault against jokes about paedophilia. It's just never been funny.

Great. The paint is barely dry on a season where we couldn't buy ourselves a goal, and we've already ensured we're missing one of our KPFs in Round 1 next year. Thanks Dawesy.

Norf - they've supposedly got 40,000 members yet they can only pull 17,000 to a home game a week out from finals. We drew the same crowd to GWS at the 'G two weeks ago playing some of the worst footy ever witnessed by mankind for the 8th consecutive year.