deeko

Well Miss Deeko and I did the toad trip from Mildura to Melb last weekend for the game much to her horror (doesnt appreciate the sport).

And today being Deeko's big three zero she has surprised me with some tickets to the game for me and a couple demon supporting mates. Shes driving us. What a keeper

Come on Dees really would love a win as a present!

My god mauriesy I would have bet a lot of money that no one here would have even heard of Patchewollock!

Amazing!

Didnt they merge with the thriving metropolis Ouyen?

I understand your point but different situation, they have no key forward targets going forwards, totally lacking in key position players, we have a pretty strong spine so our recruiting has been much better in that sense and we don't need to take drastic steps to give our side structure,

Carlton won't win a premiership without at least 1 key forward

Good points, but I just worry about some of our supporters over-rating our spine.

The blues have Henderson and Jamison as two decent defenders and there Jekyl and Hide forward in Waite. You could say its better or worse than ours based on either of the two following approaches:

Glass half empty = We still rarely have forwards on the park, have a CHB who can barely kick the pill and a full back who will more than likely leave after this season.

Glass half full = Premiership playing CHF and an exceptional up and coming forward touted as the best of his age. A CHB who is continually improving and playing above his age and an All Australian fullback who's signing later this year is the start of things to come at the dees.

But anyway, back onto the main point.... god I hate Carlton.

I'd have offered Murphy for trade for boyd certainly, Mick needed to understand that it was a one step back two step forward type situation

Surely he would be the one with the most currency but thats a big call Sassy. It would rip the heart out of a lot of players and supporters seeing there so called 'star' and captain being thrown on the trade table.

How do you think we would react if Roos came out and said Nathan Jones will be traded at the end of this season for a key position player with lots of "potential"

If Carlton were serious they could have offered enough to get a deal done, Gibbs and their first rounder, Kruizer and their first rounder, noone on their list is good enough to have been immune when a key power forward was on the market.

From all the hype based around young Tommy I don't think that either of those trades would have gotten the deal done.

I just don't rate anyone on Carlton's list. It could be the fact (and most likely is) that I am blind-sided by my hatred of them but there is no one, other than Marc Murphy, who I would really want. With Murphy as well, I'd only like him as the second/third midfielder as he isn't good enough to be a teams number 1 man and he is definitely not as good as Carlton believe he is.

As for offering Kreuzer, they have done better with Mumford.

And as for Gibbs.... weak as water with some good skills. The kids they have already offer more than him

There's a lot more to leadership than that, you either get it or you don't.

Maybe you should care to enlighten us if what you think a great leader looks like and the attributes that he/she possess.

How do you know they didn't chase him?

More importantly, who on Carlton's list would you happily trade Boyd for?

Come on! Think!

I'd say GWS looked at the options Carlton offered and would have just laughed.

Drafts previous to the ones mentioned were also problematic but i think one thing that doesnt seem to get mentioned is our club's misfortune at bottoming out at the time the two new franchises entered the league and dropped our first round and subsequent picks 8 rungs lower. It also meant the value of our 2009 number 1 pick hasnt been of any field use to any tangible degree and wont until Hogan gets onto the paddock.

Any analysis of the 2011 draft and it being a failure is a furphy. It was a putrid draft and there isnt much that could have been done that would have made a difference at any of the picks. Trading for clark was an inspired move that has been cursed with bad luck obviously.

The reality is that most gun AFL players were skinny kids who dominated junior levels against stronger bodies and the. Transfer that to AFL football. Are these same peoplemcalling for big bodied warriors saying Tapscott is a great pick? Or that getting Magner was inspired?

Perfect post

Here is my rough run down, I don't pretend I am anything more than a rank amateur but here goes.

Great work OD, really enjoyed the read.

Did you notice Salem at all?

The recruiting has been hiss-poor for years & here is just another instance that will come back to haunt us, Kelly wasn't rated No 2 in the draft for nothing & we could have taken him.

Midfielders need to kick goals in the modern game, something I haven't seen from Tyson yet.

Oh come one guys, are you serious?

Tyson has been probably our second best player this year FCS and I think he has showed so much to keep us excited. Kelly kicked a couple goals and looked good but have a little faith in our boy first.

I still worry however looking at the Port vs Roos game. The Roos hit the lead and then guess who wins a couple 50/50's to get the ball back for the Power?? I'll give everyone a clue, his name starts with Ollie

We so desperately need a leader who will take the game by the scruff of the neck and power through the midfield and/or kick that clutch goal.

I love Grimesy but for some reason he is going backwards more so this year. I love Jonesy (and I know he was injured today) but he will never be more than a good B grade mid.

What we would give for a Jobe, a Joel, a Gaz or a Pendles.

I don't know why anyone would want to come to us other than the almighty $$$ but once Danger comes out of contract I would throw everything we have at him as I can't see us getting anyone else and we definitely don't know how to develop them.

Obviously looking at the votes today Watts did more than I noticed. Anyways....

6. Tyson

5. Pederson

4. Georgiou

3. McDonald

2. Cross

1. Dunn

Bookmark it: they will pass GC by next year.

Fully agree Cudi. Without Ablett they would beat the Suns now

I'm more interested in this game then I am in the ones as I have no faith we can kick a winning score and the Giants.

This game however has interest. Looking forward to seeing how the two lads perform after being dropped.

Also want to see if the so called 'senior players' like Tappy, Jamar etc decide to pull there fingers out of there backsides and get fair dinkum.

The disposal difference is amazing

Shows a couple interesting things. First is wow the hawks are a great team and I'm scared to play them. The second point is how injuries ( or suspensions) to key players destroy teams. I tipped freo for the flag and still have faith if they get there they will give it a shot.

Perhaps the standard of effort you expect is lower than mine. You've been conditioned as a fan of this crap for too long. The intensity was there against St Kilda. It was not there last week.

No they're not that good, but they are certainly better than that.

I have high expectations also but to expect anything more with the squad we had on the park last week against there's would be silly. The Eagles will take some serious beating this year and with our decimated list we were never going to get close.

We put in a similar effort to what we did against the Saints just fortunately for us they are awful as well, just not quite as awful.

I needed to kill some time so I have made up a pointless visual comparing what we are missing against other teams 'Best 22.' The squads were named by the Hun earlier this year in which I have just copied and pasted.

Tell me how we would go against the following teams if we were to take out there 3 key forwards, two best ruckman, best young midfielder and second best defender. Hopefully you can all work out who I am referring to there:

The 'Champion' Hawkers outfit would look like:

B: Stratton Lake Burgoyne
H: Suckling ???? Birchall
C: ???? Mitchell Hill
HF: Breust ???? Rioli
F: Puopolo ???? ????
R: ???? Lewis Hodge
Int: Shiels, Whitecross, Schoenmakers, Sewell

Removed: Gibson, Rough, Hale, Gunston, McEvoy, Smith + another ruckman needs to removed.

How would we fair with our best 22?

I always think we should be at a similar place to the tiges as we were bottoming out around the same stage and both known at one stage as a couple teams with young promising lists.

The Tiges:

B: Morris Rance Grimes
HB: Newman ???? Houli
C: Deledio Dusty ????
HF: ???? ???? Conca
FF: Lennon ???? King
R: ???? Cotchin Vlastuin
INT: Jackson, Foley, Grigg & Thomas

Removed: Ellis, Chaplin, Vickery, Riewoldt, Edwards, Hampson & Maric

We would pump this outfit.

Finally, the Eagles:

B: Glass Brown Yeo
HB: ???? Mackenzie Schofield
C: ???? Priddis Hurn
HF: Masten ???? Wellingham
FF: ???? ???? ????
R: ???? Selwood Shuey
INT: Rosa, Sheed, Hill, Hutchings
Removed: Gaff (Viney), LeCras, Kennedy, Darling (our 3), Cox and NicNat.

Anyway, it's just a visual to see how weak these teams would be without there quality that we are missing and why some people here should please restrain themselves from throwing in the towel.

So don't give up yet and keep the faith!

Instead, MFC goes on hype, our picks are dictated by other clubs - just on what they say.

Ah, not quite. I wish we went on hype then we may not have made random selections such as Gysberts & Cook

Changes = minimal

Roos was never big on making large changes from one week to the next. Look at the team we pumped the Swans by 70 odd points the week after.... it was the same.

I'm not interested in bringing in a half fit Viney, Jamar or Garland either if they are not ready. Same goes for Gawn. They are all in my best 22 but lets wait till they are fit and firing before they come back in. It's hard to be patient I know but we are not playing for September this year.

He has to keep a similar team week after week and get some confidence back in the group. They are coming from so far back and they have to learn each others game and get some spark back.

It will come.

My three words in comparison to this game last year.

"We are better"

edit: Unfortunately so were they

Progressive Scores:

31. Nathan Jones

25. Dom Tyson

20. Lynden Dunn

16. Jack Watts

8. Bernie Vince

6. Jimmy Toumpas

5. Daniel Cross

3. Matt Jones Dean Terlich Jack Trengove

2. Shannon Byrnes James Frawley

Please note again that you should always specify which Jones you are selecting if you pick those players to get votes.

G'day Demonland

Can you explain to the 'simple minded folk' like myself how the voting works?

Is it an average of votes or total?

Cheers bud

Wow - was really tough being a Dees man today. We forgot to turn up for the first quarter, and then couldn't get past half-forward for the rest of the match. But I come away fairly critical of Roos' coaching today.

Too many times Byrnes the only man inside 50, with one opponent standing beside him 10-15cm taller, and one spare WCE player always willing to fall back and make it two on one. This happened while Fitzy and Pedo led time and time again up through the 50m arc being generally ignored by our midfielders. This was never corrected and I did not see the runner come out to these players. Very bemusing.

For at least half the game, watching WCE midfielders run past our players, we set up in the centre after another WCE goal with Trengove on one wing, Toumpas on the other, Michie, Cross and Jones in the middle. Could Roos not see the pace of WCE?

And he chooses not to play Blease or Evans, two players with genuine outside pace.

I know the game wasn't lost only because of these things, but they were glaring mistakes rarely, if ever, corrected.

I like the post Maldonboy but I worry about these two just not being good enough either. Blease not enough of the pill and Evans no good when he gets the pill.

I'm happy sticking with Trenners and Toump as I still have faith in them.

Gee you know we're in strife where you're praising someone for having 4 kicked on him

If the score was 45 - 52 then I would be upset.

Getting done my nearly a ton with some sensational delivery and hold a gun to 4 was a good effort.

Just my opinion, I thought he was great defensively

We are clearly playing a lot better football than last year. If people can't see that you are blind. Yes we were smashed so would any team be if you took out there 3 key forwards, two best ruckmen, your ruck rover and best defender. Some people here need to get a fair dinkum grip.

We have to fart-ars about all the time as we have no 'get out of jail' kick at all. Spencer & Fitz play small, neither take pack parks and are useless in pack situations. As for our other key forward Pedo, well we all know he isn't good enough to play as a key forward. No more needs to be said. (although I didn't mind some of his efforts in the backline today).