deeko

Yes we have great depth......just hope there enough class amongst it.

That there is my issue. We seem to have stock piled some C grade talent in terms of genuine mids over the last 2 years but its still a massive improvement over our D grade bits and pieces players such as Strauss, Tappy, Blease, Evans, Nicholson, Barry etc

I do like the fact now though that come round 1 our new draftees will be competing against players like Michie, Newman, McKenzie, Riley who I don't believe are best 22 but will be backing themselves to get in there and mature enough now not to let there opportunities slip.

Will definitely create a culture were the players will be busting a nut to first crack a gig and then to keep a spot.

Keeps them honest and on there toes.

Gotta like that

I have no doubts this kid can play and we can add him to the list of poor development and poor management. Should have still been learning the basics and concentrating on his own game before being made the face of the club that was on the edge of destruction.

I can't imagine the stress put on Grimes and Trenners during that dark dark period. No wonder they plateaued / went backwards. Poor kids probably didn't have a nights sleep for 2 years.

All the best Grimesy at just concentrating on getting some more of the pill like you used to and using it well.

I still have faith that he will get back to his best that we all so early fell in love wit. Also, come 2015, I believe we will pretty much have a brand new high quality mid in Trenners returning and remind us why he was a pick 2.

Here's hoping at least

I think we will kick about three more goals a game with a fitter Dawes, JKH & Gawn as well as the addition of Jeffy, Hoges and the returning Howe.

Also with an improving backline and an improving midfield we should be able to save one or two goals a game.

Should get us 10-14th spot and have us shaking a few top teams.

I cant see us passing GWS, Suns or the dogs unfortunately as they have some wonderful kids also who are all improving as well. Brisbane could push for the 8 as well.

Saints and blues will be down below us but not sure who else

For expediency, I rephrase - Roos said we will take whoever StKilda dont take out of Brayshaw, Petracca and McCartin

What happens if they take someone different from the 3???

THE DRAMA!!

In the traditional format, my squad for the Suns:

Jetta Frost Dunn

Prince McDonald Grimes/Garland

Watts Viney Vince

Howe Hogan Garlett

JKH Gawn Pedo

R: Jamar, Jones & Sir Dom

Pine: Salem, Bail, Cross and Brayshaw as the sub.

I'm quite interested to see where Roos sees Garland playing this year. One would assume Frost is getting a game as he is obviously rated and also The Prince will surely take a flank. Jetta, McDonald and Dunn are locks as well. Grimes, being skip, one would think is safe and although he wasn't great at it, can also play a bit in the centre.

The forward line is interesting, especially with no Dawes rd 1. I'm assuming that if McCartin is picked then he will start in the twos and Pedo will play for Dawes and in a perfect world probably find himself subbed at 3/4 time. Also, Howe will go back forward this year and big Maxy showed some great promise IMO clunking a few grabs last year and will give the Rush a chop out.

In the guts, we will see Jamar starting with Jones of course at his ankles with Sir Dom and probably Viney. Watts on a wing (I hope this is why he is building his tank at present) with Vince on the other.

Leaves the pine as a couple up and comers (Salem & Brayshaw) and some veterans who deserve the first crack in Bail and Cross.

Toump, Kent, Newton, McCartin, Stretch and Michie to work on getting some serious numbers in the twos before getting a crack.

Still lots of youth in our team so I don't expect to many more wins this year but I am hoping for some exciting footy and watch some kids who are genuine hard nuts attack the pill!

Is it possible to see some comparisons stats wise for Patty against say Boyd, Patton, Tomahawk etc?

Well they did well with Rivers as he jagged a pretty high placing in there B & F. Was it 5th or 6th? Not sure but not bad for a player in a top 4 team who most dees supporters I spoke to were fine with letting him go.

Why wouldn't the cats roll the dice again with a couple players who have some positive attributes.

In saying that I hope they both have wonderful pre-seasons so they can have a no excuse season at there physical peak.... and then not get a single kick!

She rates 2m Peter at 2.

must have seen the same talents as I do.

Very good judge she is too.

Is this some form of haiku?

I don't believe I said I wanted to trade him deeko.

Just making the. Observation that all players are tradable in the 21 century of A F L.

I did say I would prefer to keep him.

No you definitely didn't old dee, I did read your quote and Dr Gonzo's who I quoted.

Wasn't meaning to have a crack and apologies if I came across like that.

I do get a bit grumpy when people are happy to offload our players who show talent (in my opinion, I know not necessarily yours) now that we surely have better structures in place for them to improve.

I understand where you are coming from in regards to the belief that everyone is tradable. The romantic inside me just doesn't want to believe it yet.

Exactly OD, for those saying he brings people through the gates or draws the kids in - you know what does that more than someone taking a hanger once a week? Winning football matches.

I don't think anyone could single out Howe for not winning us matches however. As an individual he he has played some really good games within his short career.

My biggest beef is people wanting to trade out players before there peak and also before the chance of receiving the benefits of some wonderful coaching.

Here we have someone who in his first full year was 4th in the comp for total contested marks, 13th the next year while nearly kicking 30 goals and then last season showed some talent down back.

I think his efforts over his first couple years have been sound and his goal kicking and impact on games was improving each year until this year when he went back (which I believe will be a great assistance to him).

He's easily best 18 now and would be in most other teams in the comp as he has an incredible skill in his marking. Some here call him a one trick pony which may be nearly right but its a ripping trick to have!

Why we would roll the dice for more freaking draft picks is beyond me!

I can't believe after how many draft picks we shank that people still continue to over-value them so much.

Howe can play the game and play it well, I have no doubts about that. He was played in a completely foreign position to him last season and I thought he progressed well.

Even when we were in our darkest periods he still nearly kicked 30 goals playing in the forward line and is a contested mark machine.

He is durable with games (only missing one over the last couple seasons), is now quite flexible being able to play up and back and deep in each of these positions if need be with his incredible contested grabs and his speed on the turf when crumming and of course is a marketers dream.

Easily a starting 18 player and some people want to trade him for a speculative pick... again!

I like the kid but he is cooked imo. I don't like the idea of cancelling someones contract halfway through and rookie listing them but I think it must be completed here.

Doesn't get the pill enough as a mid and isn't skilled enough to be a HFF.

Wish him all the best and will always be fond of his first game Vs the Saints where he went ok and of course when he over-ran the kids and snagged a couple.

Would much rather role the dice on pick 40 if there is someone we like.

Gee it's a toughy and im glad it's not me making the decisions. Brayshaw seems a safe blur collar pick and after that it just seems a lottery more than ever this year with bits and pieces players.

Do you risk it in on a possible one hit wonder?

I definitely like the kid from the video and will continue watching his career unfold no matter where he ends up.

I wonder also if he may have been the reason we tried to upgrade pick 23 to 12?

If he is as good as Mitchell, Jobe, Kennedy (list every slow player who's good) etc .

Sign up Lever.

But he has barely played any midfield time to justify that comparison.

I don't get how people can project that Lever will be a gun mid without him ever playing there.

Lever is was an outstanding KD junior.

Prob top 3 maybe 1 but how many highly rated 17yo's stock fall in their final year.

I doubt Lever would've but no one can be certain of that.

I wasn't meaning to compare him to other mids jacey, just speaking about speed sometimes being a little bit overrated.

In my mind Lever has more to offer being a natural footballer than a couple of the others around him. Mind you, I haven't see him play once so I am only basing this off the highlights and reports on him as a player. I just like the way he is agressive at the pill in the air and then takes the game on with some run and spread. His speed on the video's looks fine to me.

I don't know if he will be a gun midfielder or not but I do believe he will be a very good player no matter where or for who he plays.

By your reasoning they may as well not have a draft combine at all. You're also saying AFL recruiters have peanuts for brains, since they obviously take the results into account (along with him being clearly slow on the field) when deciding to draft or not draft players.

The draft combine is a massive [censored] and in my opinion nearly a complete waste of time.

I was lucky enough to do the testing this year as apart of my work (work at NAB) and as much as it was a thrill getting out there I feel we place way to much emphasis on the stats it provides.

The couple days are more for a commercial purposes in my opinion, I don't think the data provided adds that much more value to who is selected where.

Surely the coaches / recruiters would have there minds made up after the TAC cup season and the U/18 championships of who they would be after.

If 'Player X' gets the pill 25 times a game but runs a 20m run 0.20secs slower than 'Player Y' who gets 12 touches I know who I'd go after. Also, on the 20m sprint, starting at the actual laser-line I ran a 3.18 I think and then the next I was a bit cheeky and started a foot back and got a 3.02 without being noticed. So the results can be skewed a little.

Anyways, It's all about footy smarts and I think the snake has got it.

Don't know much about this kid, but I think I read somewhere however he only gets the pill a dozen or so times a game and is clearly an outside runner.

Reminds me of another Sam Blease and thats not good to me.

I remember Cale's highlight tape and thought to myself "wow, we have a champion here coming through"

Being 'quick of mind' is more important that being quick across the park.

Everyone here is throwing around some good examples here of that kind of player. I think Sam Mitchell is the best example. He is incredibly slow across the park but brilliant to watch.

No idea how people measure this other than watching a hell of lot of the specific player. Unfortunately watching a couple highlights here and there of a player we won't have much clue.

In saying that, my expert opinion from about 2 minutes of video footage is that I love the way Lever moves and takes the game on so I'd have him over McCartin. Also believe he has more strings to his bow than that of just a forward.

His dedication to the rehab and coaching during the last season was inspiring stuff. The fact he is a very handy boxer also I hope means he is a fair bit of sh!t in him that I like.

I'm backing him in for big things.

The amount of coaches comment is interesting leaving one who agreed to continue for two more years to play for another coach this year isnt exactly building strength in your argument here Sambo.

In my opinion I didn't feel he ever wanted to be a MFC player especially after his BFF in Judas took off and left. He just didnt seem to want to improve at all. When he did play he just put the blinkers on and played for himself.

Im bitter on his little swipe and hope he fails at the cats

Definitely tough to jag the right player but I still believe culture and development is more important but even more so is some of the supporters ridiculous expectations.

Looking at the list of number# 1's compared to best three in the draft range I find its a little harsh on some players at #1. You could make an argument for nearly all of those high draft picks not being at there best at present.

Swallow really looked the goods this year after playing his first few seasons with a group of kids. Didn't get the luxury of easing on to a HBF like Heppel and then being the 4th mid like Heppell (not taking anything away from Heppell as I do love him)

Scully, as much as we all hate saying it, had a cracking first year with us notching up 20+ touches in a dozen games. Helped him having mature bodies like Junior, Beamer and Jones around him taking the heat off. Since playing with kids has battled but started playing some good footy again this year.

Watts, well its been done to death, but comparing his first game to say the Tomahawks. Watts announced as pretty much our saviour and lining up FF in a physically dominant forward line including some beasts like Maric, Bate and Paul Johnson. Can't see much from those lads backing him where the Tomahawk had some figures in Chappy, Stevey J, Mooney and Ottens roaming around. If an opponent looked at him wrong they'd cop it and if the Tomahawk didn't go hard enough he'd cop it.

Kreuzer being a big lad takes time. He will get there as well.

Anyways, after all of that, I do take supreme confidence in whoever we pick up this year has a lot more chance than kids we have picked up previously. There are now some great off field leaders (Roos, McCartney as a developer) some great on field leaders (Jones, Cross) and now that we have all been burnt by our high expectations of the past I think we have cooled our jets a little on hoping for the kids taking us deep into September.

Christ, for a minute here I had Ben mixed up with Juice and was in shock we had blown 4 pages of precious internet space

No we don't want to draft Robin

A Grade VFL Player

The End.

I think calling him an A Grader in the two's is generous but I get the point.

He's done and from what I have heard a bit of a tool.

One guy I really wanted to make it. Watched a few Casey games and when he was around the pill he attacked it hard and continually hurt opposition players in the process. My god it was beautiful.

Unfortunately couldn't transfer it to the big stage which is sad as I always had high hopes.

Still, he has had his time and a lot more of chance than others to make it so its time to churn them through

We've been burnt by a lot more mids than forwards.

Let's face it we've drafted poorly in the past full stop, that's no reason to single any type of player out. If they think the forward is class then we take him. If not we look at someone else.

Yes our drafting has been filth. Not sure which have been worse out of the fwds and mids but I'd say over time that high draft mids have more chance of success over fwds or ruckmen. What am I basing this you on ask? Really don't know, just a feeling.

I just wonder why we would be wasting our time on forwards, especially one or two who aren't exactly smashing the doors down like Boyd or Patton did.

I just want the best two mids. Hogan, Dawes, Gawn, Pedo & potentially Fitz are enough fwd targets for me at the moment until the mids start to get on top

I'm rolling with the complete opposite type of player in Jetta and saying big Maximus.

I liked how last year he played a big part of the year in the twos where he developed his skills as a forward and showed some great improvement at clunking a mark.

Not sure whats going on with his rig at the moment. Is he having some any off season nip/tuck? Hopefully he isn't for once and is good to go right away and can get through possibly his first.

Quite happy for him to continue his steady improvement and play the third forward then backing up the Rush for a little bit each quarter.

I just think key forwards are way to risky and we have been burnt before.

Everything should be about the midfield and we desperately need more quality. The better quality of the mids the better the forwards will look.

I'd rather establish a first class midfield then look to poach a key forward once they are a few years in so at least then we will know if they are a dust buster or not instead of rolling the dice again.