binman

Ugle Hagen better than JVR? Maybe. He's certainly going to be star, but he has been more inconsistent than JVR. And he was drafted in 2020 so is a year ahead in terms of development than JVR (he's a full year old than JVR too) - so he should be ahead of JVR. By the by, that reinforces my confidence in JVR going to another level this season - he will have the same amount of AFL preseasons and elite preparation as Ugle Hagen did at the start of last season, his best season thus far. Logan McDonald? You could mount a case he is as good as JVR. Maybe. But IMO there is no way he is better. In fact i have JVR well ahead, and with a much higher ceiling. Like Ugle Hagen he's a full year older than JVR, and was also drafted in 2020, so is also a year ahead of JVR in terms of development. Amiss is a gun, but i don't think he is better than JVR, who is also a gun. So i'd say even. A good comparison as like JVR he was drafted in 2021 and is almost the same age. The one thing i'd note, is that JVR rucked a fair bit last year, and was pretty handy at it, and none of the other three did. That's a big tick in his column IMO. Here: are the head to head averages for JVR versus those three:

I did say arguably. And I suppose it depends how young key forward is defined. I was thinking 21 and under, as JVR is only 20 (21 in April). Who do you think is a better key forward in the AFL who is 21 or under than JVR?

Agree on Smith - would love to know when he is back. JVR is not too bad discipline wise i don't think - i could be wrong but i don't think he was ever suspended at Casey and last year was reported twice, but got off one (the hit to Ballard when spoiling) on appeal. That said, getting rubbed out for the blues game was a shocker. A complete lack of discipline. I might have mised it but i don't recall him getting much criticism in the media or on here, at least not in terms the potential impact on the reuslt in the blues game. I dont' want to hang the young fella out to dry, and it was such a heighted match, but he deserves some criticism (and no doubt he has given himself plenty of it). He hadn't been in great form, but I don't think its hyperbolic to suggest him missing cost us the game. He would have taken their best defender, and likely any chances he had as he is an excellent kick for goal. I also reckon he is the sort of player who can be difference maker in big games - even if quiet for most of it - for example the Tigers Anzac day game last year. Another big factor is if JVR played, Schahae wouldn't have been the sub (becuase JVR could give Maxy a chop out) and we would have selected another runner/utility as a sub and brought them on for fresh legs in the last q.

They were errors. All teams make errors. Lots of them I was talking about evidence of choking and I wouldn't characterise any of those examples as choking (bar the viney one which i referenced ie the kick thst went to weitering).

Petty won't be out long. Same is true of tmac McAdam? Give me a spell. Besides he'll also be fit soon enough Melk? We missed him.come finals but he wasn't even in rhe team until the mid point of the season. He'll be back at a similar point in this season as he was JVR is arguably the best young key forward in the AFL. Only still a kid and his third season, and still a few years from his peak. But he'll be stronger and fitter than last year and go up a level or two. A true forward who takes his chancex Fritter was our leading goal kicker in 2021 and 2022. And by all accounts is in good nick and over his foot injury that caused him issues last year. Another brilliant kick for goal How does that add up to heading for a fall? Unless you think a loss against the swans kills our season.

Awesome first report. With the heat and your posting name, this song popped into my head. So here is a theme song (or avatar) for your consideration as thanks for such a top report on a hot, blustery day:

Top post. Small margins. It's exactly why predictions of our downfall are so silly. The Pies game wasn't an example of choking IMHO. But the boys would love to have the last 6 or so minutes of the blues loss back. I haven't been able to bring myself to watch replay, probably never will, Perhaps choke is too harsh and/or triggering - tightened right up, costly pressure related brain fades? But even though my memory is hazy (so i could be wrong), these events all felt like examples of bad mistakes under pressure that in isolation could have cost us the game, let alone all of them: Maxy's poster from 15 metres Maxy inexplicably trying to hit Oliver's kick back into play rather than shepherding it thru for a goal (would have that gone though if he had shepherded?) Koz shooting for goal when trac was free inside (this might be a bit tough on Koz, he kicks it and we win - and he's there to kick goals and he probably didn't see trac. That said i'm no fan of the dribbler kick when a punt kick is an option) Viney not getting his kick over Weitering's head And unfortunately for the young fella, the big one - the Juddster electing to spoil Docherty, and fail to do so, rather than allowing him to mark and holding him up On that list I'd have to say Maxy's errors were the most egregious, and perhaps closer to choking than the others. Seems to me he's escaped bit of criticism for those errors, but i went into media black out after the game so perhaps i missed it. That said i don't recall much on here.

Agree on the first part - they have more highly skilled kicks for sure. I'll be really curious to see if they look to get the Colt and Windsor in early to address our kicking issues. Partially agree on the second, but it depends what you mean by ball movement. Ball movement wasn't our issue. We were in the top three in terms of transitioning the ball from the back half but as we all know that broke down with the kick inside 50 and/or inncaruacy. The Giants have better kicks and hit a higher percentage of their inside 50 kicks. A good example of that was our loss to them in the Alice. We absolutely smashed them for indie 50s but could take our chances. The super skilled Josh Kelly won them the game with a sublime kick in the rain from 60 metres.

They played EXACLTLY like us. Their game plan was completely based on ours. Come finals EVERY team pretty much adopted our game plan, in particular the blues, giants and Pies. Forward half (ie get it inside 50 as quickly and directly as possible and keep it there - hence the hated long bomb), transition, brutal football with insane pressure and huge tackle numbers is now the template for modern finals football. Basically the tigers template with a dees tweak. It is the model that has won EVERY since 2017, bar the 2018 Eagles win (after the raging favorites the Tigers got rolled by the Pies in the prelim) The eyes say this is true. And the stats and data back it up completely. Clubs now employ game two styles a season. The finals (and any high stakes, high pressure games during the season like our last blues game) method as above. And the home and away method - there is more variation between clubs with this method, but come finals last year they all reverted to our game plan. The home and away model is faster and more attractive. The goal is to win games obviously. But the secondary goal is to make it the finals not too banged up. I haven't listened to the audio clip, but i'm guessing the pies are rated the most attractive team to watch. In their 3 finals the Pies averaged 69 points. In the blues three finals they averaged 69 points. On the back of easy kills against the Saints and Port (both defenses were woeful) the giants averaged 83, but could only score 57 against the Pies in a brutal smackdown game. We averaged 62 point in our two losses The lions were the outlier averaging just over 100, but again thta was padded by smashing the defensively woeful Port. The Lions averaged 82 in their other two finals (for what its worth, i think the Lions have the most attractive style). So only the Lions averaged more that 100 points in the finals - the total that is the benchmark for a decent score in the home and away season, particularly in the first half of the season.

Well, unless WCW is actually Brodie Grundy, or Brodie has talked to her directly, how could it be anything else?

It would appear not - deaf ears and all that.

It was weird, absolutely no doubt. I have no intel on this, and maybe i'm being unfair on Grundy, but i have also wondered if he had he checked out. I wasn't convinced by his body language at Casey i have to admit. And perhaps more than that was hesitant, even if only sub consciously, to play for fear of getting injured and scuttling the trade to the Swans. Even in those circumstances you'd think they might still play him. But my sense of Goody is that he would never play someone that wasn't 1000% invested and all in - not least because of the message that sends to the rest of the team, last season and beyond. After all, he was gone at season's end and if was any concerns about Grundy's investment all the players would have been aware of it. Goody thinks long term and his sense may well have been that Tmac at 80% was a better bet than an ambivalent Grundy, with the added benefit of strengthening team culture by rewarding a stalwart of the club, a premiership player no less, who is staying at the dees in 2024 and beyond.

Yeah, you're probably right about Gilchrist, not world class. Voice is too grating Ian Smith is funny in similar way to Kerry O'Keeffe. I really enjoyed Wasim akram too - particularly when talking about bowling. Helps that he is one of my all time favourite cricketers. A joy to watch bowling.

All very reasonable points. Why has the club not communicated to member's and fans why the club has decided not to have a stand alone family day this year, something that is immensely popular among young fans and their parents? If the reasons WCW has noted above are accurate, why not communicate them to fans and members? Instead all i can find about the family day is the short article on the MFC website WCW links above dated 31 January, with this headline, sub headline and opening two paragraphs (I'm not sure about others, but i didn't get an email with any info). Demons launch Family Series It will be easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix in 2024. 'MELBOURNE’s family day has been super-sized in 2024 to include three epic family events, kicking off with the Demons taking on the Tigers in the side’s first inter-club match simulation of the year. The Demon Family Series, presented by Beyond Bank, will feature events stretching from Casey Fields to Gosch’s paddock, making it easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix. Personally i find that disingenuous at best, dismissive of fans at worst. And i expect better from my club. I mean, c',mon ditching the super successful family day that people look forward to and claiming it has been super sized? Super sized? What does that even mean? It certainly doesn't mean a bigger family day event with more free rides and activities. What i assume they mean is they have split family day into 'three epic family events' that make it 'easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix in 2024' C'mon, i get enough spin in advertising without my club trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The three supposedly 'epic events' are: Demon Family Match Simulation at Casey Fields, with: seven-quarter match simulations (that little kisd wont sit through), signing opportunities (after the players have played 7 quarters of footy?), kids' activities and partner giveaways Demon Family Series April School Holiday Open Training at Gosch's Paddock or nearby location, with: players training (? like wow - they do that twice a week), signing opportunities (after the players have trained?), kids' activities and partner giveaways Demon Family Series July School Holiday Open Training, at Gosch's Paddock or nearby location, with: as above Perhaps i'm out of touch as my kids are young adults now, but when say they were 6 or 7, it would have been a lost cause convincing my kids any of those 'events' were 'epic', let alone actually getting them to go. And we had all three of those 'epic events' last year - in ADDTION to the family day. Easier than ever for Demon families to get their footy fix? Please. Casey is total non starter for any one with little kids who lives anywhere but in the south. Again, my kids are young adults, but i live in West and the thought of packing up two little kids into the car for a 3 to 4 hour round trip to watch seven quarters of footy at Casey and bounce on a jumping castle swaying in the Casey wind gives me cold sweats. (To be clear WCW i'm in no way knocking you or the quoted post. And i'm not trying to make you a spokesperson or proxy for the club. I love how supportive of the club you are. You have worded your post in a really balanced way that provides the reasons behind the decision not to have a family day without dismissing legit concerns about that decision. I've quoted you because in relation to the focus of this thread - the clubs poor comms - your post is very useful in terms of highlighting my concerns about the club's comms to fans, and in particular to members )

Yes, but that doesn't matter. The club made an investment. Plenty on here knocked it atm, but it was brilliant insight, and it won over most. It engaged fans. I went back and watched it again after we won the flag and found it fascinating all over again connecting the work the players did that created the foundation for our flag. Its about the choice to make the investment. And besides I'm guessing alot of club's video content, like the giants one above, is done by outside contractors.

Could not agree more. But to be clear i don't blame the current comms team (though i take Georges point about the content 'creators'. I'm not on social media and the only place i see their content is what is linked out here. But how many photos with captions like 'the colt horsing around' can you look at before wanting something with a bit more depth - i mean how hard is to write something up say describing the purpose of the drills - or do a quick interview with a line coach, trainer or player at training talking about an element of their training - as opposed to who chose the music. With tech now that sort of content is basically free to create) The club has got a lot of things right in the last few years. Coms isn't one of them. And i mean comms in the broad sense, not just fan engagement stuff. On the latter, i get the argument that with the soft cap restrictions the focus has to be on investments in the players and on field results. But the two are super inter related. For one thing, as i understand it growing the membership (to 80k) is part of the current strategic plan. Good comms is absolutely critical to achieving that strategic goal. Which makes sense, becuase that is how you bring in the income to drive on field performance. With the cost of living so high, if you are asking fans to fork out hundreds of dollars for a membership good fan engagement is part of the value proposition. Sure memberships gets you into games, but for many a membership is more akin to a donation. When making decisions about how to spend money all but the most hard core fans (and even many of them depending on their circumstances) to a greater or lesser degree will consider the value proposition of a membership before forking out for one. For me the website is an important part of the value proposition. And ours is woeful. As someone interested in stats and players histories our website is terrible. I just checked then, and credit where its due, the players info is now current - but it was all 12 months out of late last season. That is amateursville. What i'm most interested in is analysis. And again, there is nothing on our website that give me any insight into the game, how we are travelling, what our tactical thinking is etc etc. I just had a look at and the 'news' is training galleries and AFL articles. Carlton last year had video blogs previewing upcoming games. I watched it prior to our games and it was really interesting. Useful. Engaging. And no cost to create (apart from the employee time - but i assume we have employees doing comms?). I barely ever visit the MFC our website. I'd say no more than once a month in season - and not at all out of season. That's crazy. I get i'm not representative of what most fans want, but that's the point - a comms strategy has to include strategies of how to engage with all demographic's, including footy nerds like me. If for no other reason that if you ask people why they barrack for their team, 75% would say because my mum or dad did. And not investing in fan engagement is also incredibly short term thinking as it limits attracting new fans and keeping current ones. Fans become members. I've noted before Freo have really good content on their website. I just had a look and this video from a few days ago is a good example of what i mean about content that adds to the value proposition of supporting freo. As a freo fan i would find this really interesting because it gives a bit insight into a key role at modern footy clubs - the data analyst (i found it is interesting as a dees fan!) and introduces me to a a club employee who is part of the huge group of people behind the scene it takes to make a club successful (i watched it on their website, but the link is to their you tube channel as it links out better).

A fair criticism of the old channel 9 coverage. I can't speak to 7's team because i've only washed the fox coverage this summer. The fox lineup this summer was: Adam Gilchrist, Brett Lee, Mark Waugh, Mel Jones, Mike Hussey, Kerry O’Keeffe, Wasim Akram, Ravi Shastri, Isa Guha, Harsha Bhogle, Brian Lara, Michael Vaughan and Ian Smith. Of that group, the only commentator i don't really like is Mark Waugh. And of the others Isa Guha, Harsha Bhogle, Michael Vaughan. Mel Jones and Adam Gilchrist are among the best in the world in my humble. And i really enjoyed the insights of Lara and Akram this summer too.

One of the things things that has struck me about watching EPL and NFL, two sports i know bugger all about, is how insightful the commentary and general coverage is. And how much it helps me understand the game and adds to my enjoyment as a viewer. They are obviously generally speaking to fans who know the sports super well, but their way of discussing the game as they commentate is so illuminating. EPL has few breaks in the flow of the game, but they effortlessly weave really interesting info in about the teams, tactics, records etc -all while doing a great job of calling the game and not allowing their comments to destroy their flow. The games nver have more than two callers, and when they do have two, one is the clear special comments expert who doesn't bang on about irrelevant rubbish, bang on about their pet topics or interrupt the caller. And in the NFL, with all its breaks, the graphics and analysis is simply amazing. I have learnt so much about different tactics and what the game is all about js from watching the coverage. the NFL also has a great balance between journalist/professional callers and ex players providing legitimately interesting and useful special comments. I have also been watching the Aus v West Indies and India v England tests, and the coverage is uniformly excellent. Test cricket is a sport i DO know a lot about, yet i am constantly learning new info and deepening my knowledge about tactics, the game I'm watching and the history of the game. On the above, this is one of the best things I've ever seen in the coverage of any sport. Just awesome: intelligent, insightful and i learnt new information that as someone who played a lot of cricket a player and lifelong lover of cricket really surprised me (for example Lara taking about premediating shots - not when slogging or chasing runs, but as part of his technique - breaking one of the immutable rules of good batting technique that was drummed into me growing up):

With all team defensive systems and zones teams in 2024 simply can't carry a 'stay at home forward'. They haven't been able to for at least 5 years. This is an (educated) guess - but i reckon ten years ago of the 22 players in each team, perhaps as few as half of them would run more than 10kms in a game. Now EVERY player, barring injury or being subbed out, runs north of 10kms a game - including the key forwards (I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that the key forwards cover more distance than even the key defenders). You could see the impact of basically carrying Hawkins for the first third of the season on Geelong's ability to defend. It was made worse by Cameron's injury issues and reduced running power. They simply could not defend the ground and as a result repeatedly got opened up.

Personally, if i was framing a market for the flag i'd have the pies and the lions just about equal favorites, with us just behind (in large part because we've had more players with interrupted preseasons). There is very little separating those three teams. You only need to look at the exposed form from last season in terms of head to head games between them for clear evidence of that fact (ie small margins, pretty much 50 50 for all head to head combos) That said, 9.50 is not good value at all (and 5.00 for the pies to win just simply ridiculous). Futures bets, particularly for an event seven months away, is a total sucker bet created by the bookies to siphon money from punters (not that there would much money in GF pools at this point). As Webber notes above: 'Where we finish depends on injuries/players available through the season. As it does for all clubs. It’s the single greatest determinant of success, even if the least sexy.' There is no way of knowing which teams might cop key injuries at key times (like us losing every key forward, and then melk, at the business end of the season). Or which team might just have run of really bad luck - for example imagine taking a futures bet before the 2023 season on the crows to make the finals (or even win it), only for them to miss out because of a complete howler of a video review that knocked them out. For the same reason, futures bets on say the Melbourne Cup are a scam by bookies (though at least if you had an interest in a horse that you knew was a star, and others didn't, you might get crazy good odds). The current favorite for the Melbourne Cup is Without A Fight at $15. I wouldn't take $15 for it to actually run! On Webbers comment about the impact of injuries on teams chances of success, quite frankly, it amazes me that in 2024 this is just not an accepted fact. Since the end of the last season I've taken more interest in other football codes (and to a lesser extent NBA). For example I've been following the Spurs fortunes closely in the EPL and the 49ers in the NFL. The impact of injuries (and in the EPL also players missing due to international games) is forensically analyzed - and factored into predictions of how teams might go, previews of games and reviews of games. Unlike with AFL footy, noting the impact of injuries is not reflexively dismissed as making excuses, but rather factored in as logical reasons contributing to predictions, a particular result, or run of results. My sense is that it is uniquely Australian phenomena that the impact of injury is not realistically factored into the media's analysis of footy, and hardly at all by fans. I think the footy media plays a key role as it is dominated by the voices of ex footballers, many of whom played last century ,and the ridiculous make no excuses, soldier out, soldier in palaver is baked in to the coverage and therefore also the culture of the game.

My guess would be his fitness is not yet at AFL level. I only went to two VFL game last year , Coburg mid season and the blues later in the season - he looked gassed late in quarters in both, particularly the Coburg game. A modified program might suggest they are focusing on building his aerobic base (the same might be true of Mcadam). I suspect Jefferson dominated at junior level as key forward who was strong, had good hands, good one on one and and read the ball well. And his lack of aerobic tank was not exposed. But the days of a key forward being able to get by just on physical strength, clunking a few marks and slotting sausage rolls are well and truly gone. Hawkins is a good example - for the first two thirds of his career his role was pretty much to stay inside 50 and play the big gorilla, wrestling role. And he was just about the best at it too. But in the last few years he dropped weight and clearly improved his tank and running ability, getting up and down the ground much more. Arguably his 2022 season was his best. But last year he had an interrupted preseason and started the season nowhere near peak aerobic fitness. Forced to go back to his stay inside 50 style, he was nowhere near as effective as he had been. The same could be said of Tmac coming back into he side late in 2023. And Jefferson ain't no Hawkins (yet?).

Sounds like vfl footy coaches in the 70s.

Young folk and their memes. It's a whole other language - I'm only know getting up to speed on emojis Im guessing that one means Nibbla was also showing his elite evasive skills today?

That's why Taylor picked him, of that i have no doubt.

Was Nibbla lacing out passes, setting up goals and making great decisions again? Good on ya nibbla!