binman

When you say we are 17th in pressure, what metric are you using?

Let the nervus Nellie's and doomsayers come at us. Let the odds drift a bit more from 3.50 you can now get. And load up on us to win the flag.

VR is the real deal. A natural footballer, a natural forward who has great forward craft and as you say plays with aggression. The thing i love most about him hover is how super competitive he is as evidenced by his attack on the ball and his second and third efforts.

Yep you're probably right. Freo looked fatigued to my eye, and so i thought it wss a really meritorious win. They're a good team and have more genuinely fast players than us, which gives them an x factor.

You're kidding aren't you? They were running up and down on the spot in the last and had very little of their outside speed and run all game. Good win. But a touch lucky as the hawks smashed them in terms of inside 50s but wasted their opportunities. And freo made the most of theirs, with some help by some woeful defence.

Not sure about tomorrow- but I doubt they'll be flat on Monday

The lions will be flat too. Get on the saints line of 19 points

Freo looking flat. I wonder why. Well to honest, I dont Glad I backed the hawks at the 39 point line on the theory that freo would be flat.

Exactly. I'm happy for the AFL integrity department to investigate. If any of the players have gold porkies to the club then they deserve their right wack. The problem with picking and choosing which incident they investigate is they open themselves up to accusations of selective investigations and/or having an agenda. And if every incident was investigated the players involved in any incident would be less likely to withhold key information.

Puts May's post game joke when being interviewed on field about Smith getting.in his way or some such in a different light.

Yep. He gets up and down the ground, albeit at not a great pace, which is important in terms of replacing Tmac. He's not super strong, but good one on one and he is an excellent kick for goal. So a better like for like, and better option you'd have to say, than weed.

Yes they do.

I reckon he is like Tom and Oscar

Occam's razor baby

Yep. And it is worth noting in this context that in the first quarter against the Swans, before fatigue really starts becoming a real problem, we blitzed the Swans because our system was functioning. As fatigue set in we progressively lost our capacity to maintain our system allowing the Swans back into the game. At the end of the first quarter we were 21 points up. We only scored four more goals for the match and only two in the second half. The Freo game followed a similar pattern, though we blitzed them in the second quarter. We were 25 points up at half time. Again fatigue sets in, our capacity to maintain our system falls away and we can only manage one goal for the rest of the match. And just as the swans did, Freo run away with the game and look a million dollars (they could manage only two goals in the first half but piled on 12 in the second half). We have scored three goals in total in the second half of the last two games. And given up 16. Sure both Freo and the Swans played great - their pressure and game plans were first class. And the players and coaching teams deserve a huge amount of credit. But 3 goals to 16 across four second half quarters? That's not how we roll when we are up and about.

Elliot is too strong and too good one on one for hunt i reckon. Hibbo would be the match up for Elliot - can match him for strength and is excellent one on one. I'd go Hiiberd in, and plays on Elliot. And Hunt goes to Ginnivan.

Sums up my feeling perfectly (well, perhaps not the love Melk part, but i do like him).

Sounds like a Scottish Clash cover's band

I'd add to AF's terrific post that the other two key elements connecting our defence and offence is the incredible amount of all team running we do and our transition game (when at our best). Goody talks about the three phases. Defence is one, transition another and offence the third phase. Our mids, half forwards, wingers - hell even players like Brown - all push back deep into defence in numbers to help. This up and down the ground running, which more often than not is unrewarded (in an individual not team sense), is incredibly taxing. Watch spargo in a game when next watching live to get a sense of that. Of course that commitment helps our defence and increases our chances of winning ground balls in our back half. But it is also is a key part of our offence, and when fully wound up a big driver of our capacity to score quickly and heavily. That's because when we win the ball in our back half and then transition, the wave of players that have pushed back, sweeps forward. We run in waves and whoever has the ball usually has multiple team mates running parallel or slightly forward - almost like rugby union. Freo and the Swans (and the Hawks for that matter) generate one on ones up forward though quick, precision kicking - if possible through the corridor (though freo also have elements of our swarm, which is one reason why they can be so damaging - they have two methods of transitioning the ball). We do the same, but move the ball quickly with less precision ball movement and more swarm and that wave of players sweeping forward. Think Langdon tight on the boundary on the hb, flipping it to kozzie, who flips it back, and so on. Suddenly we are at the wing or our hf line and have multiple options. We can kick to a lead up flanker or tall. or go deep inside our 50 and if we don't mark or crumb it, create a stoppage and as AF notes, trap it inside our 50 (which also requires us to be at full fitness to work properly). But that wave, swarm running when on, also creates lots of one on ones and often free players inside our 50. Think of our goals early this season when a player kicking inside 50 has multiple free options to kick to. This happens because oppo players, particularly late in games, literally can't go with their direct opponent and are left gassed and trailing behind them. It looks as if we have extra players on the ground and is thrilling to watch. And it is all built on all team gut running and selflessness in the sense that most of that running is unrewarded in an individual sense (eg the off side winger may not touch the ball for big blocks of time, but has to do the running for the system to work because, one he provides an outlet option, and two his opponent has to go with him) Because our opposition has to go with us all game we exhaust them, and as so often happens, opposition teams just hit the wall. And when they do, like in the grand final, our offence looks a million dollars because we sweep it forward with ease and the opposition can't get back quick enough to clog up our forward line. If, across the board, we are fatigued, all that wave running and swarm breaks down. It impacts every part of our game, but arguably our offence most of all. When we can't swarm, our forward line looks stodgy and always crowded. And Brown for instance is always flying in a pack with our players and theirs (because that is our method - when in doubt kick to a pack and win the ground ball). Tmac is a huge out, and the main reason is he does a huge amount of up and down the ground running and his opponent can't go with him.

This one?

In terms of scoring, i reckon our game plan makes us more susceptible to problems with our offence as our offence is reliant on our defensive system working. And fatigue makes it all but impossible for our defensive system to work properly becuase we struggle to stop teams' hitting up free players and once they do, hold that player up, meaning we struggle to stop opposition transition.

Scoring yes. But their defence has been woeful The hawks put 117 points past them

Yep. Our round 15 clash against them will be interesting.

Again, no one is linking ALL form to training loads. But i honestly cant understand how you can accept we are loading, but not accept, despite the evidence (eg our form slump this year and last year, and the obvious fatigue) that doing so is almost certainly going to negatively impact our form, and therefore our chances of winning. Loading fatigues players. That is undeniable fact. Fatigue, in any sport, negatively impacts skill execution and decision making and exacerbates any issues (ability to play a role, cohesiveness, injuries, illness etc etc) a team or individual might be battling with. It is harder to win when fatigued. I tried to bump this thread, but im not sure why i can't see it on my home page. But it is worth scanning because the questions now being asked about our from slump were all being asked last season (the date the thread began and ended is interesting, and suggests we have a few more weeks of sub optimal performance to endure - buckle up).

I simply do not understand how you could argue this is the case. There has been any number of posts from people saying loading happens - this year and last year (and exaclth the same pont in the season). I have not read ANY comments that even remotely supports the idea that loading discussion inevitably comes with a 'relax we've got this' attitude. Can you provide an example?