binman

Not sure. Tim's brother?

HD, your position in Goodwin is well argued but you completely undercut them with this sort of reductionist palaver. There's a name for it, which I can't recall off the top of my head, but has become an ubiquitous strategy in modern discourse, particularly online discourse. It's a brutally effective strategy designed to do exactly the opposite of the complaint - silence the views of others. Accusation as projection. It forces people into binary positions and makes a nuanced debate or mature exploration of a topic all but impossible. Which of course is the key aim. I didn't start this thread. I did however do the bit on the podcast the OP references, which is me making a case Goodwin is a legend of the club and dees fans should get behind him. That was it. I never said during my bit that goody was above criticism. I have criticised goody plenty over the journey (ironically those critisims included his handling of jack Watts and jessie hogan - ironic because I got wacked for those views) And perhaps i missed it, but I don't recall reading a single post on here, or anywhere for that matter, that said posters 'must never question his wisdom or coaching'. If there was such a post perhaps you can point me to it. Of course the great irony is the people using this strategy, consciously or unconsciously, are often the same people complaining their opinions are shut down. Ironic because as noted the strategy works to silence the voices and opinions of others - to shut down conversation. It's a form of gaslighting that is particularly effective because instead of discussing substantive things and the core issues at hand (in this case whether goody can be considered a legend of the MFC) discussion devolves into being about the right to express contrary views and grievance. It one of the reasons (along with others like peurile personal attacks and deliberately misrepresenting my systed opinions) there is a vanishingly small number of posters on DL these days that i can be bothered having a robust debate with.

Four years is a big commitment Petty signs a three year deal and disco a two year deal. Great vote of confidence in the club, goody and the direction we're going. What odds Harley Reid signs a four year extension at the Eagles? Top work Tom Lamb.

True nuff.

That and form. They have won all of one more game than us. And like us have won three of their last five games. Punters assess games more objectively and strip out emotion than fans of participating teams.

#Don't shoot the messenger but the punters have this game as basically a toss up:

The problem is jeffo hasn't been playing consistently well in the VFL. In fact the only consistent thing about his career thus far is how inconsistent both his performances, and of more concern, his effort has been. Take the game against Frankston. With the rain, terrible day for forwards so he gets a pass on his performance. But effort is a non-negotiable and his was poor. Compare and contrast Jefferson's second season in the VFL to JVR's first season in the VFL. Chalk and cheese.

@Webber might not have chosen to create this thread! But the content of the rant would be the same.

I'm glad our loss to freo has given the face palm posse an opportunity to take their pots shots at me. I'm not going to bother to defend my opinion on goody other than to say if you listened to my rant and think a loss this weekend gone changes my opinion that goody is a legend of the MFC for the record he has established in his 8 years as senior coach then you have serious comprehension issues. And if you haven't listened to it but feel the need to come on here to have a pot-shot at me when you dont even know what i said then I live in your head rent free and perhaps you need to put me on ignore for your own well being as my opinions are clearly very triggering.

Agree on all points. Yes, I think more reliant on stoppages. I wonder if we'll continue to even up at stoppages in every game now.

Game style Very similar to the dons in some ways – high uncontested possession numbers (Bombers AFL #1 and Freo #4) And a similar use of handballs to the the dons And like the dons like to use of the width of the ground to try to spread their opponents and create overlap opportunities BUT Freo much more prepared to go lateral and hold possession That was their template against us when they thrashed us in the Alice = though they didn’t need dot hold it up much as we weren’t getting across to cover as we clearly had dead legs But we are a very different team now in terms of our running power, dynamism and all team defence We’ll be more than happy to let them hold onto the ball as it means we can get our d set And will likely use very similar tactics as we did against the bombers to make it more difficult to chain out of stoppages and create overlap handball chains by creating congestion around stoppages, applying pressure on the ball carrier and frontal pressure on the receiver in the chain Prediction Dees to crack in hard at it and apply too much pressure and be too strong in the contest for Freo Take our chances early and we win by 17 after leading by 32 late in the last

That increased focus on territory and contest is what I meant by moving to a hybrid method combining the old method and the transition model. A big watch for mine is scores from defensive half, which with scores from turnover, is a key metric for the transition game and has become a key indicator for success. On the espn footy pod (which is good, but frustrating because one of the hosts is dead set anti dees and it colours his analysis of us), Christian from champion data noted we are bottom four for points for from our defensive half, and of more concern also points against from defensive half. That's concerning in terms of our transition game. The key questions for mine are: - are we able to improve those numbers (we have improved points for in the last few weeks, but not really points against the back half) - our 2021 flag win was an outlier in terms of the dees being one of only two teams in, iirc, 19 years to win the flag and not be top 6 in scores from turnover. My question is whether the hybrid model goody is implementing is less reliant on defending scores from turnover and from the defensive half.

Yep, I was referring to pressure rating differential. I think I heard hoyne say (or perhaps espn footy) last year that it was the strongest correlation to winning. It was in the context of the pies being an outlier, and when playing their dynamic back half on the first half of last season were unusual because they often had negative pressure rating differential. The explanation was related to their method- fast ball movement, lots of uncontested possessions ans run in space.

How about win rate for winning the pressure ratings?

What's better than watching the bombers get rolled? Getting $3.10 for a crows win.

One Skinner does not a spring make.

When jack steps on a nail, the nail needs the tetanus shot.

Did you run the numbers on the hard ball get in terms of win rate?

Great work wheelo. So win cp by 1 to 10 = 70% win Win cp by 10 plus = 79% win And a 'blow out' is 85% win What's a blow out?

Woey injured with a bad corky. Billings had 32 disposals and two goals in the VFL last week. Played well. Laurie did too, so a tad unlucky.

Agree with all of that. And to be honest I have no real issue with click bait journalism as such. As BDA notes it is a buyers market, and if the market demands rubbish that's what it gets. But the issue in the coverage of AFL football is, unlike in other spheres like politics, click bait and pantomime is all but the ONLY coverage option. I've been complaining on demonland for years about the quality of the media coverage of AFL. Not unreasonably, the advice I often received is, well don't watch the rubbish - advice I've largely heeded. The problem is it leaves almost no football media to consume. In fact it has pretty much left me with 45 mins a week of Daniel Hoyne on sen and the abc 12-1 on Sunday (and even that is border line given the prominence of mathouse, who is really out there). The problem this click bait monopoly creates is it completely drives and shapes the narrative. And let's be honest shapes the opinions of Joe footy public. Take the discussion of trading Oliver. It was a discussion that commenced last seaon and was premised on the idea he was bad for culture. That has been put to bed to a large degree because he and the club have done a brilliant job of getting back on track on that front. Now it's premised on his form this season. Which is where the problem starts. Any discussion on his form is based on a comparison to his best football. Which is fair enough - but only to a degree. If the hysteria theatre was balanced by some level headed footy media content the misinformation would be counter balanced by facts. One of which is that by any measure clarry is actually having a pretty good season. Don't believe me? Go check his rankings on footy wire or wheeloratings. Clarry is ranked highly and is ahead of lots of excellent mids accross mutiple kpis for mids. Or pick a couple of gun mids and compare their seasons. And please spare me I don't need stats to tell me what my eyes and vibes tell me. That just echoes the approach the lazy media take (who often double down on lazy by picking one or two stats in isolation to buttress their vibes based rubbish). One example. I compared clarry's season to Sam Walsh on wheeloratings and Walsh has him covered- but not by much. Walsh's player rating is 14.5 and clarry's is 11.15. Walsh is averaging 5.7 disposals per game more than clarry, but we know clarry has been playing a defensive mid role. Despite Walsh having more disposals, their contested possessions and centre clearance numbers are almost the same. So sure, cornes and McClure have at it with your over the top faux hysteria. But how about introducing some facts into the discussion. And when it comes to clarry rather than swallowing the click bait hook and sinker and echoing the views of fools like Morris, dees fans might do their own research and push back on false narratives the media push.

Agree. And there will mutiple games from now on where contenders are playing teams who are def out of the finals race who have put the cue in the rack.

Right you are. Meant ocean Grove. Wrote Torquay.

Sorry, not sure I follow. He did a preseason, it was just interrupted. Why play him? Because despite his fitness level he remains out best mid. And his current level is above that of 80% of mids playing the game.

Foe players who uninterrupted preseasons, once the season starts fitness is simply maintained at the level they commenced the season at. At best. Players who have a preseason as interrupted as clarry did might get a bit fiuyer because they are coming off a low base, but its all but impossible to get to their optimal level - unless they do a "mini preseason" at some point, like bbb did one year (which means no games).