binman

Why would the tigers be in the frame for ooze junior?

Indeed. It's all about the journey.

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All good points ,well made. No question in my mind tracc is still struggling to fully commit to the contest, which as you say is totally understandable.

Thanks DJ. I didn't bother replying to an obvious troll. If I had I might have pointed out that in reference to this nonsense..... 'Would you agree that some significant chess pieces need to be moved to get us on our way? Or are you (similarly to many on here) too attached to the individuals that make up our list?' .....I'd point them to last week's podcast where I talked at length about the need to bring in a high quality half back flanker with elite kicking skills and a gun medium forward, noting if it were up tp me I'd target Bergman (who sadly re-committed to port just a few days later), Wanganeen Milleara and Long from the Sun. And how we get such trades done? Well, i floated trading out Tracc, Rivers and Mcvee (though on reflection mvvee would be silly given his skill set - I'll replace Judd with Fritter for the reasons noted above).

I've found it quite strange tracc hasn't played forward mote often tgis season. Bately spent any time forward. Particularly strange given our challenges up forward. I've completely lost patience with Fritter. After a handful of of decentgames he was back to being ineffectual and half hearted. Not to mention selfish - hated him not giving the handball to kolt for a walk in goal. I could see the argument going for it himself was actually the percentage play, I mean it was a gimme goal. My issue was his instinct was to not consider handballing it to a teammate, or even feigning the give, which would have made it an even bigger gimme. Long way of saying I 100% agree- drop Fritter and play tracc forward. I'd even like them to give clarry a run forward. On fritter, Id go further - we don't have many players we haven't recently resigned with trade value. With his skill set and record, Fritter does have some trade value. And I'd be looking to trade him.

Top post. Much the same thoughts - saves me posting. I'd add tracc's fumbling has become chronic. No where near his best. And seriously, if Jones is going to come I to the AFL system and immediately become a midfield coach then he deserves AFL level scrutiny. We were flat our appalling today at stoppages, particularly centre square stoppages. Oor set up and structures wete all over the place. I mean how often did maxy hit forward and the crows run onto the loose ball. That's largely on Jones

Every game is important and this is no different. If we the bring the heat and pressure from minutes one, and can sustain it, we're a chance of winning. Go redleggers.

God the 'stats is rubbish' palalver is so boring, not to mention 100% wrong. Can't be bothered explaining why, or getting into a debate about it as i suspect your mind is made up - suffice to say that AFL clubs employ full time people to provide in game, real time and post-game analysis of the stats and data and have done for probably 20 odd years, and even before that had part time people doing the same. (i met a fella at the Roos preseason practice match who did that role when Barassi coached the Dees in 1981! He told me Barrass said to him that he was shocked how unprofessional the dees were compared to the Roos, and one example of that lack of professionalism was the absence of real time stats in the box on match day)

Yes, but the problem with salo now is there's zero hurt factor. Half back has become a critical position in terms of driving quality transition from the back half and initiating scoring chains. Key to that is hittiing high risk kicks (eg into the corridor, kicks on the 45, kicks over or thru zones etc) and salo isn't even trying them, let alone hitting them. If he isn't playing that role, he then needs to be our Quaynor and lock down dangerous small forwards, but that's not his go either. It's amazing actually that we are transitioning the ball so well given salo is just going, Mcvee has struggled to get back to his best form and Windsor is still finding his feet down back (and is not as good a kick as I hoped he would be).

I went to a club function earlier in the season and Kolt was on my table. Couldn't meet a nicer young person. Confident without being cocky. Engaging, funny and open. And likeable as all get out. On an unrelated note, kolt will, in my opinion, be a gun. Unlike say windsor and Lindsay, and more like Langford, I dont think he is a natural athlete, so will really benefit from multiple AFL preseasons. Once he builds an AFL level tank and builds his strength he will be exactly the sort of damaging, powerful forward mid like Ah Chee and McCluggage I've been banging on about being so important in footy atm (the sort of player we really lack).

Don't get me wrong we were inexcusably poor in the first quarter. The Suns should have buried us - but didn't because of their inaccuracy (how many times have we said that about us). But I reject the narrative that the Suns put the cue in the rack, were in cruise mode afger quarter time and if challenged could just go up a gear. if that was the case it would be reflected in the pressure stats, which it wasn't until the last quarter: Team pressure Quarter For Agn Diff 1 160 209 -49 2 213 198 +15 3 174 189 -15 4 170 166 +4 Match 180 190 -10 The Suns were flagging and it's worth noting their game against the giants ladtvweek had almost exactly the same pattern in terms of pressure - incredible in the first and blew the giants away before dropping each quarter and having their worst rating by some margin in the last quarter. If Melksham kicks his last shot at goal its 13 points with nearly 4 minutes of the clock and we had all the momentum. If that goes thru we are well and truly a chance of winning. Again, its worth noting the comparison with their previous game. 22 points up at 3 quarter time, and seemingly in control, the Suns stopped to a walk in the last conceding 9 scoring shots and the game. The Suns had 5 scoring shots Apart from the margin at 3 quarter time the numbers were almost identical We had 11 scoring shots in the last quarter, and the Suns had 4, and as noted we could have snatched it. The difference was we kicked 5.6 and the Giants kicked 8.1. Again, we were woeful in the first but lets not fall into the trap of downplaying how well we played fir the remainder of the match, particularly given we were down a defender, our key forward and one full rotation for over half the game.

It doesn't contradict the marks inside 50 from his kick inside 50 at all not one iota Score involvements include any disposal in a scoring chain and of course any goals and points a player actually kick. The percentage of score involvements per disposal for any player playing as many midfield minutes as tracc, particularly one that also goes forward, SHOULD be high That's to say mids get the most disposals, are key to how teams transtion the footy, and are of course often involved in scored from stoppages. In fact far from contradicting the significance of tracc's woeful inability to hit a target inside 50, the fact that his score involvements percentage has dropped is likely at least in part a function of a drop off in kicking skills (noting he is playing more time as a mid meaning fewer scoring shots and therefore, by definition, a lower percentage of his disposals will be score involvements) A better stat to make your point would be goal assists, which is defined as a disposal that directly sets up a goal (which is also a score involvement). And I'd bet dollars to donuts his goal assists have fallen off a cliff.

I agree that KE can be misleading - another factor is that mid forwards kick under pressure more often than say defenders so their KE stats are skewed. But it's not useless, partic when used in relation to mid/forwards, who unlike defenders don't actually do many chip it around and backward kicks (perhaps they should) and partic when compared to players in like roles. That list is actually a pretty good reflection of our worst kicks amongst our mid forwards (perhaps not so much of the best on that list?). Take Tracc. In mid-May, of players with 50 or more kicks inside 50 Tracc was the worst in the AFL for that kick being marked by a teammate. I think I'm right in saying of his 50 plus kicks inside 50 only two was marked by a demon. Oliver was not much better. Sure, that's not all on them but bottom line, both are poor kicks. Perhaps the purest stat for kicking is accuracy at goal - Tracc has kicked 13.15 season, but i shudder to think what that percentage would look like if shanks on the on the full and not making the distance were included By contrast Koz has kicked 27.19

When Ed Langdon is your most efficient mid/forward kick you know you're in a spot of bother kicking wise (note: I'm guessing Spargo isn't included on that list as he's not a mid?)

That's just nonsense. I was merely rebutting inaccuracies. Like the narrative we are not good at moving the ball, when in fact the reality - quantitatively and qualitivity - is the opposite. As I have pointed out on any number of occasions, ever since i started posting on dl some 11 years ago in fact, the issue is our kicking skills - our last kick inside 50 and our woeful inaccuracy being the two most obvious manifestation of that issue. It an issue everyone acknowledges, and of course can clearly be seen - and equally obviously the issue manifests in the stats (eg traacs incrediblely low numbers of marks from his kicks inside 50 - back in may he had the worst ratio in the AFL and it hadn't improved since).

Total rubbish (except them having better skills, that much is true). One thing that doesn't lie is your confirmation bias

No they don't. We couldn't move the ball forward at pace in the first quarter - and scored a point They were brilliant at doing so in the first quarter - and kicked 5 goals 7. For the rest of the match we moved the ball more quickly and effectively than them - and outscored them and had 24 scoring shots to their 17. Our ability to move the ball effectively from our back half is evidenced by this data (particularly impressive given we were so poor in the first quarter) Points from defensive half For Against Match Season Match Season * 44 26.8 22 39.7 * Against season average represents average points conceded by Melbourne across the season, not average points scored by Gold Coast.

That was a shocker- game was well and truly alive too

Blatant holding, or if nor HTB, throwing not paid. They goal

Billings again!

Apologies- wrong thread

Craven attempt goal successfull - 11 points down

Snap

Lever is having an all time mare.