bing181

I think you're right to exercise caution re Clark, there's still a long way to go. But there have been plenty of success stories with that injury, it's not all doom and gloom. Having said that, if he manages more than a half of footy in any of the NAB cup matches, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

Correction: Dawes was always in the firsts, except when injured. As for "other teams' cast-offs", it seems too simplistic a reading of their situation for mine. Sellars has shown himself to be a good pickup, and probably a solid first-22 player, but was even more on the outer at Adelaide than Pederson was at North. Not to even start on the "cast-offs" that Sydney have managed to find a place for (and more) in a premiership team. Not to keep coming back to one of my pet themes re all these trades, but they create competition within the team. Pederson and Gillies are certainly going to keep the likes of Dunn and Sellars honest, and even if that's all we get out of them (which I'd be suprised about), it'll be a step forward.

Wonder how often we'll see that though. Think Clark could take a while, and even getting back to pre-break level could be a bit of an ask.

Agree with the last 3 points, but your first two are in my opinion completely unrealistic. Lose 8 games by less than a goal? Be interested to see if any team has managed that. One or two "close" games in a season, sure, but 8?? Never beaten by more than 4 goals? Once again, has any team, ever, done that in a season? Even the best will have the odd off days, and the less-than-best probably quite a few. There are going to be 60 point losses this year - just hopefully fewer of them. For me, I feel that the year is going to play out in terms of luck and injuries. Losing Mitch Clark this year was iMHO catastrophic. If he takes time to come back, Dawes has an injury (or ongoing injury issues), Viney gets heavily crunched and misses 6 weeks, Sylvia breaks something (again), etc. etc. I for one would not be all that confident that we'd suddenly shoot up the ladder. If on the other hand, the stars align, everyone plays to or approaching their potential, most players are available most weeks creating a real competition for places, sure, the sky's the limit!

Good luck with finding a free wi-fi spot in Europe outside of your hotel ...

Seconded. Seen it do a lot of damage to those around me, including immediate family. Meanwhile, Caro (bless her) has come out swinging. It's gonna hit the fan, especially as the target is Collingwood. Could be the perfect time for the AFL to announce that after an extensive enquiry into alleged tanking, MFC doesn't have a case to answer.

As do the FD. We've just had a major clearout ... yet the pencil holds his spot. For a (just) 23 year old ruck, coming along nicely I would have thought.

Sure, but we're a professional football club playing at an elite level, not Reach or the Salvos. I wish him well, but after being passed over in the draft multiple times by every single club, it would appear that he has some way to go to convince the pros in the footy business that he's worthy of being even given a chance. Perhaps another year or two at state level is what he needs to get his head in the right place.

Sometimes things just don't work out with a player, and the club and the supporters need to be big enough to accept that, wish them well, and move on. Hope it turns out OK for Liam, he could do with a few things going his way. For me, he'll always have been one of us.

Not sure whether or not it's the best off-season we've (ever) had, but definitely the best training reports of the off-season we've ever had. Impressive work from all who contributed ... not just the players stepping up.

He has missed quite a bit due to injuries (in both 2010 and 2011), improved over this year when he came back, wasn't disgraceful when he had to carry first ruck duties, and is being consistently mentioned positively in training reports. Hard to ask much more of a 23 year old ruck at this stage. More to the point, we just had a big clean-out, and he's still there, which says something about what the insiders in the FD think of him.

When all (ALL!) the players come back having met their off-season targets for skinfolds, and the majority of players come back to set or equal PB's in the first 3k run ... these are not vague "training the house down" claims, they're tangible proof of the changes that the club (and its culture) is undergoing. Look at the average age of the team this year compared to last, not to mention the size, weight and experience of the players that have come in. Will we win a premiership next year? Of course not. Will we win more than 8 games? We shall see ... but if we do, it'll be because of the changes that are happening now, in this off-season, brought about by Neeld, Craig, Misson and co. Results on-field are the tip of an iceberg, much of which is off-field.

The side that beat Sydney by 73 couldn't beat Sydney at all the following year. 2010 was a bit of a smoke and mirrors season, and in retrospect, most of us seem to be able to see through that. Most of us.

A little quote from a member of North's training staff .... included as much as for what it says about training workload at Melb as what it says about Gysberts: New recruit Jordan Gysberts is also adapting to the workload and conditions. “He’s started off really well, but I think he’s been surprised by the amount of work he’s been exposed to. But he’s coping with that really well and will only get better as we go.”

Happy to take whatever you've got. It's been a tough few years.

Careful ... that's what we were doing when the wheels fell off last time. Let's make these guys work hard to get senior games, so we can have a hard midfield.

Not necessarily. There's a team there that he's building, I don't know that it's actually "built" yet. I also don't really get the "we haven't seen if he can coach" line. According to all reports, the players have come back in much better shape, and there's a lot more intent and intensity at training. Which would indicate that (at the very least) Neeld knows how to motivate players to get the best out of themselves. A big part of his job I would have thought. Coaching is not just about what happens on-field - though admittedly, it's about the only place we get to really see what's going on. It reminds me of the discussions as to why players like Bartram were in the leadership group. There's just so much that happens off-field, where Neeld seems to be doing well.

"Can" being the operative word for me. Viney alluded to one of the rationales behind the choices is to create competition for spots. There's no pressure to perform when the player who would take your spot won't actually be ready to do so for a couple of years.

I would have thought that ONLY drafting kids, and expecting that to turn into a premiership was an "extreme approach". With the players we've brought in and moved out, we now have a list with an age distribution much more in keeping with that of most clubs.

If Kent even plays this year he'll be doing well ... or we'll have a hell of an injury list. In my opinion also ..

I've always found this a fairly shallow argument myself. That was a one off ... confirmed when we couldn't repeat it the following year, even though we had basically the same players ... who, BTW, also travelled down to Geelong one fateful day in July last year, if we really want to put the Sydney win in context. It's a bit like taking our Essendon win this year as being representative of where the team is at. The rot started long before 2012, and was never going to be turned around (on-field) in one season.

Yep - Toumpas played in the SANFL grand final the year before last, as a 17 year old. (BTW, Jack will be fine/great. More than anything else, he needs a solid pre-season, and a solid run of matches. He showed last year what he was capable of before injury cut him down just as he was getting going.)

Exactly. Does he have the wherewithal to be an elite, professional sportsman and all that that entails? Why bring in someone who's not prepared to do the hard yards? Which would seem to be the case here.

Yes, this has "hardest team to play against" written all over it: "Dean Kent is just a unit. I can't believe he didn't make the 18s squad. He is a tough nut and has a booming left foot. Was reported in the 3rd for high contact but I think he'll get off. A very solid physical player who I rate highly."

Probably most interesting thing to come out of the night. That we rate guys like Jones and Terlich above the potentials there says something.