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For anyone who saw both Saturday's game AND the Crows game last week......

Clearly we are in a situation here where we were very competitive last week against possibly a top four side and this week uncompetitive against a mid list side, and one that was playing interstate and usually is uncompetitive interstate.

What were the main difference between our two perfomances? I must say I was heartened by what I read about the display against the Crows after being very down beat after the game against the Bombers. In fact I wrote on here after that that on the performance we would not win a game. From the reports about yesterday, it sounds as though the perfomance was very similar to the Bombers.

The thing that made me so depressed about the Bomber performance was what seemed to me to be a total lack of Gameplan, or an inability to implement one. For those who saw the Crows game had this turned around last week, or were we simply well served by a couple of brilliant young guns in Scully and Trengove?

Or is it simply the inconsistency of a young side? I must say i'm still not convinced about Baily's gameplan, or lack of one.

Who is playing well? Who surprises?

So where are we in the second term?

I am the poster that stated openly that the match v's Fremantle was critical to our membership.We then needed to get 500 per week and in the last 3 weeks we have only got roughly 800 in total.Although many other posters claimed that NAB Cup matches were only practice matches and they didn't count.I disagree strongly. Our membership was growing very strongly before our demise match against Fremantle and we badly lost momentum. On top of this we have lost Morton,LJ & Bell to long term injury leaving a lot of people feeling we are basically no hopers this year. I disagree strongly with this thought however this weeks match against West Coast could be very telling to see if we can regain focus and drive to match our 31509 of last year and our budgeted amount of 31000. Our 30000 by our first match is a pipe dream. We may get to 27500 by 1st match if we are very lucky and win Saturday.

I think a lot of people are in my position. Although I have been an MCC member for some 40 odd years I usuually take out full Red Legs memberships for each of my wife and three grown up children. I see it as sort of a donation as well as participation in the club. i haven't had any interaction with the club so far this year, but will certainly be there against the Hawks where I plan to purchase my memberships. I think a lot of people are in the same boat. We will get to the 31000 target by about 3rd round, or even possibly at the Collingwood game particularly if we do well or beat the Hawks in round 1. The AFL have in a sense done us a favour by scheduling our first Collingwood match this early. It inevitably creates a lot of publicity and those members who remember the traditional clashes are highly motivated by the potential for victory over the traditional enemy.

Having said the above, and although I have posted here recently that I think the MFC seems to becoming a very well run organisation, I do think it show considerable lack of imagination and ambition in building a membership base. Having had a long corporate career in senior marketing and executive management roles, I believe with the right brand positioning and a clear understanding of our strategic strengths I see no reason why we should no be shooting initially for 50,000 members, and then within 5 years 100,000. It requires is some innovative thinking and a much stronger and creative focus on our strengths. We have a long way to go in this rea, but we have many unique strengths which we are not currently taking advantage of.

I dont know if anyone has seen the latest membership numbers, but Hawthorn are a good example of what can be done. 20 years ago the Hawks had one of the lowest membership bases in the AFL. Now they expect regularly to be above 50000, and vie for the largest victorian based club membership with Collingwood. That didn't happen by accident, and we have many more natural advantages than them. It can be done, and we can do it.

There are also other areas of income we fail to exploit. The only club that does not accept the AFL standard formula website is Essendon. They have their own highly sophisticated web presence, and happen to make between $700k and $800k per annum out of it. We would be lucky to make half that.

From memory he played a half a dozen or so games forward very early in his career. He kicked a few goals, and I think went on a run there for a while kicking at least one every game. But some points should be explained here... He has a lot of elements missing from a KP forward's game. He doesn't take pack marks, or many overhead marks. Doesn't clear space in the Neitz sense of the word. He is a very pretty kick, and is tall, but other than that there's really not been much to suggest he's got what it takes.

That said, we all know how long the tall ones take, and I don't know about you guys but I had to wait til I was in my mid twenties before I realised how much fun it is to take and dish out the big hits. When he figures out that he is, in fact, a big boy... his professionalism and footy brain will give him the impetus to be able to improve on his weaknesses. I don't think we'd ever have an 80 goal FF on our hands, but he doesn't necessarily need to be that. Just be a target, straighten us up, and clear some space.

One thing in his favour is that I seem to remember his kicking a lot of goals on the run and a reasonably way out. He is an excellent kick for his size and has good speed. I think when we have Watts, Jurrah etc in our forward half i think he would make an excellent mobile, but big HFF or wing. Even forward pocket as a third tall forward or even crumber. I think his basic skills are excellent - clean hands, speed, and accurate kicking. He has too many potentially attacking weapons to use as a stopper as he has over the last two or three seasons.

This is his opportunity to show us what he is made of, but it would cruel him to be put in a key position like FF or CHF. His potential is elsewhere, and that is where he should be used.

The Age's Best 22:

B: Clint Bartram, Matthew Warnock, James Frawley

HB: Joel Macdonald, Jared Rivers, Cale Morton

C: Nathan Jones, Brad Green, Cameron Bruce

HF: Aaron Davey, Brad Miller, Matthew Bate

F: Colin Sylvia, Paul Johnson, Liam Jurrah

R: Mark Jamar, James McDonald, Brent Moloney

I: Jack Grimes, Lynden Dunn, Austin Wonaeamirri, Jack Watts

AFL.com's:

B: Jamie Bennell, James Frawley, Jared Rivers

HB: Joel Macdonald, Matthew Warnock, Jack Grimes

C: Cale Morton, Brent Moloney, Aaron Davey

HF: Brad Green, Brad Miller, Colin Sylvia

F: Austin Wonaeamirri, Matthew Bate, Liam Jurrah

Foll: Mark Jamar, Cameron Bruce, James McDonald

I/C: Jack Trengove, Tom Scully, Nathan Jones, Stef Martin

PJ at FF? Bartram over Bennell/Cheney? Whoever wrote that for The Age has no idea.

No Pettard, no Grimes in the Age. No Pettard, no Watts in AFL. I wonder what the definition of "Best team" is in both cases

Attended last night as well and it was a good function...

Some more insight as I know everyone on here loves ever bit of info they get (me included)

Watts - stated he weighs 89.4 or 5 this week and expects him to be 91 by the end of the season. His weight should increase to 94 by start of next year and he thinks that great for a 19yr old (JCB this info is for you as I know you love the details)... Watts will play Casey 2s next week and DB stated he needs about 4 or 5 games at Casey before he would look to be selected in the team...

Gysbert - Stated he was a bit thin especially since he was a 190cm midfielder... stated Scott West loves him at stoppages and his hands are amazing in close and West keeps talking him up to DB. DB spoke about the draft selection and that it wasn't a shock to them it was everyone else that thought Melbourne would go tall... They took him because he would not have got to pick 18 and mentioned that both Port and Geelong have stated that they would have taken him prior to pick 18

Scully and Trengove - their arrival and professionalism has increased what is expected at the club now as these guys train hard and have high expections on themselves but everyone else - He noted it was a bit freaky that young players could do this.

Jurrah - was never intended to be our FF this year or main target... DB still wants a big anchor player in the goal square (as WJ mentioned he will trial Jamar there this week) and he wanted Jurrah to play the pocket or flanker role... The issue is where are the goals going to come from and thats when he mentioned Dunn, Green going foward and being the focal point.

DB mentioned how the guys haven't played many AFL games but they don't like losing or blaming anything on situation. Scully and Trengove bought the dees into the game in the 4 qtr against adelaide and all players where [censored] that they lost and knew they should of won... No player was blaming the flight, lack of prep or that it was a praccie match the just wanted to win and they won't accept a lose... It seems that they now expect to win and coming second won't cut it I got the feeling that this come from a lot of the younger players who have never not been successful.

My main highlight for the night was when DB started talking about injuries to Bell and Jurrah and all the doom and gloom... He mentioned all the players coming back in and then told a stories about an unsign member who emailed the club and stated with Jurrah and Bell going down the club is going no where and we haven't got any players so we won't win blah blah etc etc and he shouldn't resign... DB actually called him (got his answering machine but will call when again when he leaves the function) to tell him about the club the players and how exciting this year and our list is... The whole club is on the same page but I think it is fantastic that the senior coach will ring a member (I know he shouldn't have to) to get him signed up, he is taking time out of his work but isn't leaving just to the admin people... This is the second time I have heard DB do a similar thing which I think is great

Very encouraging post. Everything you hear about the culture at the Demons seems extremely positive. It is clearly a very professionally run organisation and is looking and behaving in the long term, while at the same time recognising the need for short to medium term success. The fact that the young guns also are exhibiting a bit of mongrel about winning and non acceptance of defeat is very encouraging. They WILL taste success this year and hopefully enough of it to begin building a winning culture as well as a professional one.All in all we should all be encouraged by these posts.

Geez - Look at Dunn for what he is - in the forward line he is avg (being kind) overhead and will always look for a cheap free (in fact will look for a cheap free anywhere over the ground). His weakness is he relies on fancy moves rather than putting his head over the ball (Quote Mark Riley when at the MFC) and you can translate that into the forward line. He's been at the club for a number of years now. He'd be in the forward line if he had the goods and he's not. Bailey hasn't missed anything. He'll get time down forward because the options are diminishing but dont get too excited. Ricky Petterd will kick twice the goals because he has twice the application even if half the talent. I dont doubt Dunn will give 100% but he is what he is and doesn't find the footy (would like to add yet).

Let's hope you are wrong. Out of this injury situation, hopefully one or two might step up and surprise us all. Dunn is an obvious possibility in that. I, for one, hope he does.

I'm not trying to talk about who in our best 22,,,but rather who has the body capable of going the full 22 rounds of home and away if available...from our recent recruits.

couple names to start it off...couple of these guys are new to the club but are showing promise and others have been

Garland, Colin

Strauss, James

Wonaeamirri, Austin

Trengove, Jack

Scully, Tom

Jetta, Neville

Bennell, Jamie

who can bails rely upon to play 22 home and away games this year if fit from our young/less experienced brigade if fit...that's my question?

The other one I think might be CAPABLE of it would be Tapscott (from what we hear) but of course he is out for the first half. Then of course there is McDonald, but I guess he comes in as a mature age recruit.

Out Garland - Clearly not ready until round 2 - 5

In Strauss

Garland's inclusion IMO depends on what happens this weekend and next.

Cast you minds forward.

The year is 2012 The Young Demons have recovered their season after losing the first 5. They now stand 5-5 after beating heavyweights West Coast away, Hawthorn at home and Adelaide away in the last 3 weeks and The Queeen's Birthday round is upon us. It turns out to be a beautiful day and 81,987 people show up to watch ladder leaders Collingwood play Melbourne who sit in 8th spot. The games tight but in the second half Jack Watts finally comes of age, reeling in 12 marks, kicking 7 goals and having his way with 3 opponents, often at the same time. (Think football) Newspapers call it "The best 2nd half of football since Carey" Herald Sun reporters, along with Bring back Powell, Hillie and agent orange are left red faced and are last seen scolding themselves for making silly comments regarding Watts in the past.

It might not happen exactly like this but it will happen. Patience Grasshopper

I like it. Let's trot this out after Queen's Birthday 2012. It'll happen, though I suspect before that date.

Cast you minds forward.

The year is 2012 The Young Demons have recovered their season after losing the first 5. They now stand 5-5 after beating heavyweights West Coast away, Hawthorn at home and Adelaide away in the last 3 weeks and The Queeen's Birthday round is upon us. It turns out to be a beautiful day and 81,987 people show up to watch ladder leaders Collingwood play Melbourne who sit in 8th spot. The games tight but in the second half Jack Watts finally comes of age, reeling in 12 marks, kicking 7 goals and having his way with 3 opponents, often at the same time. (Think football) Newspapers call it "The best 2nd half of football since Carey" Herald Sun reporters, along with Bring back Powell, Hillie and agent orange are left red faced and are last seen scolding themselves for making silly comments regarding Watts in the past.

It might not happen exactly like this but it will happen. Patience Grasshopper

Beautiful. Bella. I'm sure you are right. The upside is huge and the club is right to be patient. I'm convinced he is an amazing talent, and will be one of the principal leaders of our club for many years to come. It is all about the long term. Some also forget that Natinui is a year older than him which at that age makes a huge difference

if watts is fit...he needs to be played at the AFL level. it's an obvious part of his development.

afl games will help teach him what he needs to learn by playing at casey when dropped (etc... )

Totally agree. If he is fit this is not a time to protect him as tough he is some delicate flower. Games are what he needs. From what my info says from inside the club he is the last to expect to be protected. For all his private school charm , and leadershipo ability, my understanding is he is incredibly competitive and raring to go after them.

Dare I say it, David Neitz mark 11. And I can't think of a better tribute. Let'a hope so anyway.

What is the significance if we lose the first three matches and then go on to lose this one, given the larger expectations for the club this season?

On the one hand it's only round four, but on the other hand it's the team that alot of people think are strong contenders to take the wooden spoon off our hands.

I don't want to be doom and gloom, but it is certainly in the back of my mind.

We won't. we will be 2:1 by that time,and everyone will be talking about how unfair it is that we tanked on priority picks

Been told that Dunny will play a more prominant role as a forward this year to cover the loss of LJ and enhance the forward line somewhat,making it more flexible with reasonable talls till Watts can fulfill his role and LJ returns... At practice today, Dunn & Newton were the best at kicking practice.Dunn started his career as a forward and this role may help out with a forward line like this:

HF: SYLVIA MILLER BATE

FF: DAVEY DUNN GREEN with a rotation of Sylvia, Green, Bate & Miller at full forward for a time within a game.

Davey may rotate with Wonaeamirri when fit and in form.What do you think?

I'd much rather see Jamar at FF and Spencer in the ruck. Jamar a couple of years ago was an amazing pack mark, and he took a couple against the dons albeit at the wrong end. Him resting forward, and maybe rotating with say Green, I think would be very effective. Spencer on the bench when not in the ruck tho. Dunn in my view is not a true full forward. A very skilled player tho, but better out of the pocket or HF. Hopefully with the injury to JL, we can experiment with a few combinations and find some surprises.

LJ is a star tho, and a crucial part of our future premiership sides. Meantime we have some intersting reserves who might surprise us all.

I'm prepared to take bets though that Colin Garland will not only play forward in our premiership team of 2014, but play a key position.

We have a lot to look forward to, albeit with a short term diminished list

Go dees

IN - Joel MacDonald

Out - Colin Garland (probably underdone)

I'd push Grimes up in the midfield and put Petterd in the fwd 50. Intereting that you've left out Jones but he'd probably picked before a MacKenzie or a Dunn.

yes swapping davey and pettard could also be a possibility. Certainly take advantage of ricky's recent good goal scoring form.

IN - Joel MacDonald

Out - Colin Garland (probably underdone)

I'd push Grimes up in the midfield and put Petterd in the fwd 50. Intereting that you've left out Jones but he'd probably picked before a MacKenzie or a Dunn.

yes I left out jones quite deliberately. I think this side has better quality on ball and better speed on and off the ball. Jones to me gets caught far too often, as well as being one of the worst offenders in missing targets. Maybe a spell at Casey to work on these issues mght allow improvement in these areas and show everyone else the club is serious about improvement in these areas

Based on our latest injury information and what we learnt from the game in Adelaide, my team for round one would now be:

B: MacKenzie Warnock Rivers

HB: Garland Frawley Bruce

C: Pettard Sylvia Trengove

HF: Davey Miller Dunn

F: Grimes Jamar Bate

Foll: Spencer Green Scully

Inter: Wonna, Martin, Maloney, James MacD

Still a pretty good side in my opinion.

What do others think?

Great post WJ. How often do the Devils Advocates meet?

If I worked for the Footy Department, and Watts wasn't ready, I'd have made some plans to fix our forward line prior to this season without him in the picture. Why didn't we recruit a forward? I can accept that Watts isn't ready, but when are any players ever ready. Surely, he can't be the only 19 year old whose bones are still growing that can't play.

if we were concerned with the present and were considering recruiting a mature age forward to win games this year we would have kept Robbo.whilst many of us would have liked this in some ways it would not have built our future. The club has done the right thing here, and injuries to lj and the slow injury injuiced progressof jack watts as well as slow recovery progress of Garland has beenjust unlucky. We do thoughhave some interesting replacements in Dunn and very soon Garland, and even give some game time to fitzpatrick if he shows any potential at Casey. My only area where I think we might have done better is the retention of Newton. ithinkhe is a wasted space and we possibly may have gotbetter value out of robbo mentoring the younger forwards as well as some goals out of him.

In hindsight they may well have done this, but as we all know hindsight is a wonderful thing. Also, do we really know the seriousness of robbos injury recovery.

Please note, whilst you may know lots there is to know about the MFC, and probably a bit about other teams, he has to know just as much about 1 team as the others. His head would be full of players like maric and mckenzie, people who are yet to prove anything in afl level.

HT my point is, as much as i do like you defending the team, and bringing stats in for your argument, and being generally hostile to journalists, you have to remember, that it is their job to get people discussing things, and saying things like Newton is a good player is unlikely to raise any eyebrows in the media world.

You also have to remember like everyone on here, he is his own person with his own opinions, and while i generally agreed with most things he said about the MFC, personally you can't get all bent out of shape if he says something that you don't like because you have invested interested in the team and he doesn't.

And coming back to my point of media, they have to talk about something, weather it be correct, incorrect, positive, negative, a fluff piece, or something more serious, it is their job to put doubt in peoples minds or talk something up.

Oh and wanting the media to be consistent is a complete waste of time. They tell the story they want to tell

The other point about this is that all teams compete for the time and attention of the media. The Demons gets relatively little media attention compared to Collingwoods and Carltons of this world, so having a prominant journalist whoat least has sufficient knowledge of our list and club to be able to produce a reasonably coherant article is surely a plus. Probably now only Martin Flanagan and Mike Sheahan (both prominant Demon supporters as well as journalists) has more knowledge of the club than Stevens. this can surely be only a good thing for the club's future and coverage will become more extensive as our success builds.

Jamar will be very interesting to watch against Hawthorn.

Could he go forward like he did against Carlton and kick 5?

Which Hawk will match up on him?

Carlton didn't have a big body that could go with him, neither do Hawthorn.

Totally agree about Jamar. the Hawks will be very stretched by good talls especially if it is dry.

Could be a match winning move

Since the Mfc still hasn't posted liam's status as of 9.15 this morning can assume they are looking at all medical options. It may not be as bad as we are imagining. I suggest the longer it takes the more room for optimism there is. All is not lost!

As of now, this is the official injury list on the MFC website:

Injury list as at 4 March 2010

-Aaron Davey – Adductor Soreness – 1 week

- Cameron Bruce – Hamstring – 1 week

- Matthew Bate – Quad – 1 week

- Colin Garland – Foot – 1 week

- Neville Jetta – Groin – 1-2 weeks

- Jack Watts – Back – 2-3 weeks

- Sam Blease – Ankle – 2-3 weeks

- Paul Johnson – Foot – 5 weeks

- Cale Morton – Knee – 8-10 weeks

- John Meesen – Ankle – Indefinite

- Max Gawn – Knee – Indefinite

- Luke Tapscott – Hip – Indefinite

The only info on LJ says Bell out for 6 weeks, Jurrah is still being considered. In my experience in these things often several medical opinions are sought and options considered. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case here. I'm sure given the supporters' concerns they would post the verdict just as soon as it is arrived at. It may not be quite as bad as we fear now.

By the way, Watts was 2-3 weeks last week. What is going on here. How long term an injury is this. Clearly also Garland and Bate didn't pull up quite as well from their run at Casey as first indicated as they are still on the injued list

Just watched last week's Four Corners on the turmoil in Tennis Australia, and the insiders view on the push by Paul MacNamee to take the reins. Clearly MacNamee is a pretty divisive figure, but the TA operation seems to be so disfunctional that maybe it is time for a new broom. The question is, is PN the right man for the job.

Hre lasted a matter of months as CEO of MFC. Does anyone have insight about this short tenure, apart from his wanting to recruit Jonathan Brown. I understand there was a push back about his being a "non-football" person, but wasw there any more than this, and does it say anything about his suitability or otherwise for the TA job?