Akum

If that came off (and especially if it did help us nail Gaff as well as Lever), Watts would be doing us a huge favour.

42 minutes ago, MikeAlphaTango said:

Ricky Nixon on twitter has mentioned this also.

 

Whoa! Has anybody ever seen Ricky Nixon and our own STMJ in the same room?

6 hours ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

VP, I suspect you are something like my vintage (ie well over 21), and to me and many my age, the behaviour of people of Jake's age is definitely a mystery, an enigma and a facepalm. It is also clear that Jake will never join Mensa, and is probably not the sharpest tool in any known shed. Throw in sexual politics and social media, and it all seems like self-destructive horsesh!t ...

Where else but Demonland could you get Enigma, Mensa, any known shed and self-destructive horsesh!t all in the one post!!

24 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I am all for that method Chewy,. Provided he is also not given the next opportunity until or unless he has broken the door down at VFL level over a reasonable period (not 1 or 2 decent games in the odd week).  This should be the method for all rookie listed players (ie, those who have played less than say 50 games or so), including JKH etc.. As to why we keep looking at them when they haven't is beyond me..... Severe injury list the only exception.

By way of comparison, heard on radio that apparently Dipper had 90-something games with Hawthorn reserves before getting a run in the seniors. Times have changed.

32 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

That wasn't the point I was trying to make at all.  I was just pontificating about this possibly being a former poster under a different name.  Nothing more than that.

Oh right. Misunderstood, sorry.

26 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

For a bloke with 5 posts you sure know everything there is to know about Demonland.  I wonder how you've done that... ?

Poster is actually looking at evidence and making their point from there, rather than starting with their subjective opinion and ignoring or trashing evidence that doesn't support it.  Stats comparison with Lynch is totally legitimate place to start.

51 minutes ago, RedButMostlyBlue said:

Long time lurker, first-time poster. Hi, everyone!

Big JW fan, but I guess much of that is premised on the fairytale of converting potential to success, much like the club itself.

Up until now, I've been highly unimpressed with the handling of this matter. Yes, JW has had his moments (pre-season /his perceived lack of hunger etc.), and he has been frustrating because of the disparity between his best and worst. It's all exacerbated by the #1 tag and his 9 years at the Dees. But he loves the club, and saw us through some dark times. We need people like that. But, I totally agree that things can't stay the same for things to change.

So, Mahoney's comments today are comforting. I now believe there is a chance of JW staying, but that if he does, there is no question whatsoever (Wattsoever?) that he is a leader, and needs to act and play as one. He won't ever be a hard nut like Chunk and Viney, or the fastest on ground, but he's silky and reads the game better than most, and when he's at his best, we play better for it. He's my choice for goal 50m out, after the siren, and one day that could win us a game/final/GF.

But if he goes, I will also know that he was not prepared to be the player we need him to be (or was not able to convince Goody/PJ of this). I'm still kind of broken by 2017 (and other years), hence my name, but I see big things and I'd love for JW to be there. My gut feel is that he'll be there, and he'll be amazing. But I'm a dreamer. I have to be as a Demon, otherwise I'd have checked myself into a psych ward years ago.

I need a profile pic...

Another excellent first post. Welcome aboard.

11 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Just what is it about this that people are not getting?

It's clear that Watts has been asked and asked to cut back on the partying and take his footy and his preparation seriously. This has obviously been going on over a number of seasons and it's equally obvious that the FD and at least some of the senior players have had enough. Everyone here talks about Goodwin, but from what we know, this is also coming from the likes of Mahoney, Viney (senior),  McCartney, and presumably, with the blessing of Jackson and the Board.

To ask a player with the history, profile and popularity of Watts to leave is a huge decision, which just goes to show just how many bridges Watts has burnt and how fed up everyone is.

 

How do we know this? PJ, Mahoney & the Board have been silent so far, which is actually very wise, because for them to say anything about it, publicly or privately, could be quite damaging for the club. They would not be happy at all about being put in this position.

Gotta be more than Motlop, surely?

7 hours ago, Siren said:

I think this may be the same person I have heard yesterday. Hearing a quality midfielder currently playing for a Victorian club. Will update as I hear more

Pendles, as long as Watts stays??? 

14 minutes ago, ChewyOnMyBoot said:

I don't particularly mind if Jack goes or stays.

But this whole situation is getting an awfully bad smell about it. And, I'm starting to feel distrustful of anything the club or Goodwin proclaims about this mess......and I don't like that.

Tell me if I'm wrong but originally, from what the club or Goodwin had said (or somewhere), I had the impression that it was Jack's decision to look elsewhere.

Then a couple of weeks later (and confirmed in the clubs letter above) it had changed to being a 'mutual' decision.

And now, what I'm hearing is that it's actually Goodwin's decision.

For a coach that wants his players to be hard at the contest, he's playing this like a '[censored]'. Certainly failing to stand up like the man he wants his players to be and take ownership and responsibility for this decision. Just to the same level that many on this forum are asking of Jack.

So Goody, get a good grip on them, man up, and tell us the truth. Honesty is not something that you can play with and decide to apply when it suits the circumstances. F**k with honesty and you can destroy a culture.

...

This is the part that bothers me too.

From Watts's past behaviour, it's always been crystal clear that he would never be the one to take the initiative to leave. I think he actually said when Roos came that he'd only leave if the club didn't want him.

This was why I've believed strongly that Watts must be gone because the coach (or coaches) gave him an unmistakeable indication that they don't want him. That's the only reason that Watts is actually talking to other clubs at all. And if the coach wants you out, you're pretty much out.

So I've found it uncomfortable that Goodwin was trying to give the impression that he's happy for Watts to stay, or that it's mutual. If he'd given Watts the option of staying, Watts, by past performance, wouldn't be talking with other clubs. Pure and simple.

So why does Goodwin seem to want to avoid taking responsibility for that? To me, all Watts is doing is trying to make sure everybody's clear that it's not his choice to leave. As he has a perfect right to do.

Goodwin seems to not only want Watts to leave, he wants Watts to take the responsibility for leaving.

That's what bothers me most. Especially when this all seems to be about being strong enough to stand up and be counted.

Great first post by the way, Chewy. Welcome to the loony bin.

18 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

The rules of Misson's injury report:  1 to 2 is really code for 4.2.6.

 

They really don't know how long soft tissue injuries take.  In Jack's case he had had back spasms, a problem ankle and hamstring tightness in the weeks prior but kept playing. 

So these probably complicated his recovery. 

So if he had a back-related "hammy problem", that's a very different beast.

53 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

A little bit dramatic but i agree with you.

In saying that untradable and traded for the right price are very similar.

What i think @Roost It was saying is you're not going to trade Gawn for tippet as an example, but if you got offered say Lobb and Sheil you'd look at it. 

It's not likely but if an amazing offer came along. It's sensible is all I'm trying to say.

Yeah, but the trouble is, if you tell a player they're "not untradeable", what is that player going to tell their manager about how the end-of-season meeting with the coach went? Especially after the year that Hogan's had. Especially if up until now, the club has given him the impression that he IS untradeable.

And if you were that manager, and you continue to get speculative calls from the clubs in their home state, what might your advice to your player be?

It's probably nothing, but the door's been opened just a chink when there was absolutely no need to touch it.

Surely if Sloane was on the market, the Blues would be all over it like a rash.

What's RSN?

I thought Pyke's remarks after the GF, where he tried to wash his hands of any responsibility for the team's performance, were remarkable. If that's a reflection of his overall attitude to coaching ...

15 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

He's been doing it at other social events too. Heard a description of Watts' leading patterns that was far from complimentary. 

Gee, not good. You'd think he'd be capable of keeping his thoughts to himself, at least until after trade period.

24 minutes ago, hemingway said:

...

The only unknown to me is his off-field stuff and attitude around Goodwin, other coaches and players. The "cultural issues" that is clearly a driver for Goodwin. 

The only other comment is that I have been around the place long enough to know that "difference" is never tolerated or treated well in organisations. There is an existing social order and convention in all organisations that produce conformity in behaviour, attitude and views. I also know that there is always a prejudice against different cats and they suffer intolerance and unfairness.  However, good organisations have a collective of different types of people that bring something to the table. if properly recognized, these same people can be excellent team players if allowed a bit of freedom and support. I have seen too many talented people let go or forced to resign because they were different. Bosses and footy coaches don't value what they bring to the table.  Good teams have a group of different characters that are still team orientated. Richmond is a case in point.

OK, I hear the critics say that Jack has been given many chances over now a relatively long career of 9 years and 150 odd games, however, I will be sad to see him go and think the timing is not right. I see we potentially lose more than we gain over the next 12 months. Jeremy Howe is a recent example of a player that was let go, yet has flourished at the Pies. 

I also think that clubs, but particularly Melbourne has to be very careful how it treats loyalty. It is becoming a rare commodity and should be valued and not trashed. Perhaps removing Watts can improve the culture if he adversely impacts his teammates, but it could also adversely impact the team if he is a positive influence.

Brilliant post, this whole part hits the nail on the head.

1 hour ago, Ouch! said:

Care to name a player that has managed to turn around their career after 9 seasons?  Isn't it the players responsibility to get the most out of their career as much as it is the coaches? Watts has been cuddled, given rockets, played in defence, forward, wing and ruck. I thought last year was a really promising season and that this was his turning point, only to see him let it slide over the preseason, not turning up in condition. I don't blame him for the form after his hamstring injury, but I do blame him for his preparation at the start of the season. 
I always liked to compare Watts to Goddard, but the penny dropped for Goddard after about 5-6 seasons. Jury still out with Watts unfortunately.

Bernie Quinlan.

11 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

I think the most important thing to take from Richmond and the Doggies success is that 1 trade won't make us a premiership team from where we are now. It's about having the right game plan and a belief in that plan. We looked the real deal when we beat Suns, Pies, Doggies and Eagles. Injuries can be blamed, but it took us 12 rounds to look good enough to win the flag when we needed to be switched on from round 1 till the end.

I don't think Jake is worth 900k a year* sum, but once he wears our colours i'll back him to the end.

I get your point, but I think there's a big case for saying three trades won the Tiges the flag.

Thought they played massive overs for Prestia & Caddy, but those two allowed them to use Dusty & Cotchin to much more damaging effect. And Nankervis did just what they wanted him to do, not just at stoppages but around the ground too. He got to so many aerial contests.

If Jake lets us structure our defence much better, it allows the likes of Hibberd & Salem to play further up the ground. And as others have said, it allows T-Mac to play forward, and he suits our bomb-it-to-30m-from-goal forward game plan better than Watts or Weid or even Hogan.

On 30 September 2017 at 9:27 PM, binman said:

For what its worth here is the crows defender's rating and comments from news.com (yes i know). Ratings out of ten in brackets

6. Jake Lever (4) — Unsuited to playing against the dynamic, small Tigers forward line. Exposed for pace at times and didn’t kick the ball particularly well.

8. Jake Kelly (4) — Appeared to be hampered by a hamstring issue and never made a mark on the game.

12. Daniel Talia (5) — Can’t really fault the key defender — unless you want to compare him to his opposite number in Rance?

15. Kyle Hartigan (3) — Filled his personal blooper reel at a furious rate early in the game before recovering slightly.

16. Luke Brown (5) — Did his job like he always does apart from one marking contest where he was left one-out on Martin.

29. Rory Laird (6) — In Adelaide’s best, but that wasn’t saying a lot in this game.

That truly is a load of bollocks. Talia was worst on the ground by a mile, but "can't really fault" him? That's probably because he rarely got to any contests so you could say he didn't make any mistakes with the ball. He threw the whole defence out because he couldn't keep up with Riewoldt and was useless on anybody else. I like Talia in general but I've never seen a worse defensive game in a granny, he played like he was as stoned as the hack who wrote this.

Also overrates Brown & underrates Kelly & Lever.

On 30 September 2017 at 7:35 PM, ThreeOneSix said:

Yeah he does. But. We should inquire as to the availability of Nick Hayne (GWS). I would rate him as good a prospect as Lever. So we have more than one card to play here. Whether the club play it or not. But I would. As to Lever, he did ok today - below his best (but ok). Rance was important for Richmond, and Lever is miles ahead of Rance at this stage of his career. Lever is quality. The thing is, so is Haynes, and can we find other key position back man of quality - in order to make Adelaide believe we aren't do or die on this deal? We need to drive this price (picks wise) down.

Notice too that Rance plays on the weakest link - Jenkins. Talia had an absolute stinker, so Lever & Hartigan had to do a lot more than usual. Lever had to take Riewoldt far more than he'd like to.

11 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

How did they get her number?  

 

"Hey, wanna send a pic of me to my wife?"

"Pretty weird, but OK"

Seriously, why is he letting her take a nude photo?

On 30 September 2017 at 6:46 AM, DaveyDee said:

Fantastic opportunity for the club that lands Stringer to help him rebuild his life - clearly the Dogs dont have the support structure needed. Nobody yet has stated what crime he has committed or what he did wrong apart from let his personal life effect his professional life. Had his form not dropped at the Doggies all the bulldust would have blow over. 

Sure the noisy right wing conservative do-gooders will have their say - but its 2017 not 1964. 

"Grand sale! Grand sale! Grand sale! ...."

(Actually, Franco Cozzo is a great bloke. Don't think even he could sell a Stringer though.)

Actually Crossy's view on the Watts situation would be really interesting.

Especially being an ex-Bulldog.