Adam The God

Agreed. The core is strong and reminds me of Richmond's side from 2013-2016. Elite core with not enough support or system around it. Role players is the way to go and then strengthen the system over summer. Reckon Hibberd can give us one-two more good season(s). Melksham could be an extra half back flanker back up, but I wouldn't have him in my team every week. Hibberd/Lockhart - May - Lever Smith - Tomlinson/Petty - Salem Phillips - Oliver - Langdon Fritsch - Weideman - Jackson Pickett - Brown - Petracca Gawn - Viney - Brayshaw Harmes - Rivers - Jack Higgins - ? small pressure forward / or can we get back into the 1st round (McRae) The forward balance is probably out still in this line up, but there's good run and carry, there's a bit more class in there by playing Fritsch up the ground, Smith, Salem. I wouldn't mind trying Salem at half forward and occasionally switching Fritsch to half back. Defensive system certainly got better this year. Our forwardline is a mess IMO, and I hope Yze can reconstruct it to ensure we get bang for buck out of midfield.

We're basing a lot of this on speculation. The speculation says Collingwood are looking at Nev for a multi-year contract. They want Nev and they're happy to part with Phillips.

No we wouldn't. They need cap relief and Nev is contracted. We have the whip hand.

Do you know anything mate or are you just running around trying to put the fire out?

I'm only disputing that West Coast remained a strong club after Judd left. It's untrue and their performances showed this.

Well, the year after he left they finished 15th (second last). The year after that 11th. The year after that 16th (last). It took them another 4 years to get back into the 8. This is with the best resources in the AFL. They didn't shrivel up, but they went from competing for flags to nowhere...

Yep, that's what I've heard too. We need to come out of the blocks like Usain Bolt next year.

Heard anything @dazzledavey36?

Lol, does that mean they're conceding they'll lose Treloar?

Yep, agreed. I'll wish him well and won't begrudge him if he moves on. Really loved the way he turned his career around and we all know how important he was in that 2018 finals push.

Oliver is a better player than Merrett. So let's just start with that. As for the idea that no player is untradeable. Sure, every player is tradeable then, but if you want to win flags you can't be trading away your very best players. Midfielders are vital to winning premierships, so I don't particularly rate the idea that Franklin leaving Hawthorn didn't impact on their flag successes. Well, great, but he's not a midfielder. Franklin wouldn't get it without Sam Mitchell extracting.

I don't think rating him differently to others despite providing a better output is the way to get the best results out of players. That's just my opinion though.

He's not on the verge of becoming an A grader. He is an A grader. He's elite in all the categories that matter for an inside mid.

We'll agree to disagree then.

No, no I wouldn't.

But hang on mate. If you agree that he clearly performed better than Viney and yet polled less FD votes, you're essentially backing up what I've said here. The coaches underrated him. McCartney is no longer there. Interesting. And despite Viney having a weaker season, you're saying the coaches still gave him more votes than Oliver because Oliver is capable of more? It doesn't make sense. Oliver will be at Melbourne next year. I'm talking about the end of 2021. And Oliver and Franklin are not comparable. If Hawthorn had lost Sam Mitchell then I'd agree with you. They also wouldn't have won all those flags without him. This post is an example of how Melbourne fans underrate Oliver. He hasn't missed a match since his first season. If he was out of our midfield, you'd see a distinctly weaker outfit. Each to their own, mate. As I've said above, you'll notice how good Oliver is when he's not there, but because he plays every match, it's pretty hard to see. I loved Schwarta. A unique talent, but I rate midfielders higher. Midfielders win premierships. Yep, that's what I'm referring to. He said "just because of the way I have played my football and I suppose my attitude towards team-first football I have always been drawn to performing team roles." He might think it's team first to play rugby and Goodwin may love it, but 8 years in the system and still making our midfield run into each other.

Yep and far more consistent and durable.

And coaches should love the guy that makes our entire midfield tick....

It's not even a discussion for me. The guy is an out and out star.

Yeah, I think Fritsch's deficiencies present a problem for us. I agree with @Hannibal Inc. and you here, Bob. He's certainly a natural forward target, the concern I have is his defensive game, given the style we're trying to play. I don't think we can carry 2, let alone 3 'talls' that don't tackle and are ordinary at bringing ground level pressure. I wonder what Yze thinks of our forward set up. Hawthorn managed to play Franklin, Roughead and Gunston in the one forwardline, but had Rioli, Puopolo and Breust at their feet. Those three smalls not only brought x factor, goal smarts and were natural goal kickers, they brought brilliant ground level pressure. Brown, Weideman and Fritsch are similar types to those Hawthorn 3 or could be in tandem, albeit not as talented. We then have Pickett and somehow have to fit Jackson in (I agree he'll play, but where best to play him?) and are still lacking the goal smarts and goal kickers like Puopolo and Breust. Petracca rolling through there probably takes one of them, but we need at least 1 or 2 others. Jack Higgins would be a great target for us and anyone else of similar ilk. We are crying out for zippy forwards that can apply pressure and hit the scoreboard to balance out these three talls. Would love Brent Daniels too. I wonder if there's a way we can get him via Preuss.

16th October 2020 and I'm worried mate. Viney needs to STFU in public and bring people together, not divide. That is leadership.

I want them all cleared out. Turns out Goodwin will stay, but if he doesn't get this team playing well early next year he should get the axe. I'm sick of the under performance (sure, let's contribute some of that to the age profile of the list), but now that our better players are getting restless, I've very little tolerance for slip ups from here. If Pert wants to keep his job much past 2021, he'll have the same attitude.

I've said this so many times now, but I've only been alive 33 years. He's the best player we've ever had in that time. The club needs to sort it out asap and pay him what he wants. If we lose him, we're stuffed. As for new memberships, my read on some of the supporter base is they completely underrate and undervalue him, and it's clear that the coaches do too.

I think it's more complicated than that.

It wasn't directed at you mate. It was directed at half the posts on Clarry this season and since the season finished. I don't particularly care how the coaches voted in the BnF. It was as clear as day that Oliver was our second or third best player by some margin and well ahead of Viney. Jack then has the arrogance to come out and say the midfield plays selfishly, but seems to excuse himself, easily our most selfish mid. If we lose Oliver and keep Jack, our club is going nowhere.