1858

From the vid footage he just does it with nonchalant ease !! Almost looks like hes pulling his kicks and they STILL go a mile.

From that clip I have to agree. I probably should have checked it out first.

Looking forward to seeing this kid at Casey next year. Has an absolute weapon of a boot, roosts it 60 effortlessly. We haven't had anyone else on the list capable of that, except maybe Dunn, since the departure of Wheatley.

Is that from a wind up set shot or can he do that on the run? I ask because with Dunn I associate him with winding up from a flank with a bit of time up his sleeve but a player who can burst from opponents and drive it 60m on the run is a different kettle of fish and a player we could really do with.

Massive pre-season for our 7 rookies given 1 of them will be nominated for senior service for the whole season. Another gets a chance mid way through not to mention promotions for injuries.

Importantly we got our stock ruckman. B)

The analogy with my small business was just to illustrate that you can survive small if you are willing to jump when needed rather than fight the Quicksand, which is what the MFC pretty much did for 30 years

Yeah look, the semantics are becoming more abstract by the post but I'll concede you know what you mean.

Having said that, if you can survive small in AFL why is the club significantly focused on building its market in Casey, building its membership base, building its asset base and building its brand?

MFC had some confronting issues which threatened its position as an AFL club and as far as I can see faced them head on so I'm not sure about "jumped". Perhaps you could say we "jumped into action" but if that is the whole substance of your analogy then sheesh.

The interest rates were killing this club, each week the figures were getting bigger. The club had to completely start again in almost every way. The Biggest factor was the allignment back with the MCC as i see it. The club now has a backbone.

I see the semantics but that is about it.

wrt to business models though, which I think this debate has centred on, there isn't much of an analogy here IMO.

You made a sound decision as a sole proprieter to leave a particular market, in fact wind up a business, with (from what you suggest) minimal loss in realising your original capital.

MFC has certainly made some important strategic decisions with the MCC (MCG deals) and expanding in Casey and debt demolition was crucial towards us being a going concern but it hasn't really (from a business model pov) emulated your sole proprietor example IMO. I think to a large degree our full business model remains to be seen from a public pov, ie how we'll go about expanding our asset base (both monetary and physical).

Still have my credit rating intact RR & that is what counts. Credit rating is like a passport-without it you cannot move.

I got out of my business because it had run its course-I am still in the game, i need to upgrade the vehicle.

which is exactly what the MFC has done over the past 3 years.

What exactly has MFC done in the last 3 years which mimics a sole proprieter closing down their business or "upgrading the vehicle"? Not looking to contend your pov WYL just not sure what you actually mean.

You mean like the Red & Blue Foundation for money specifically towards equipment (Player Development Fund) or training facilities (Facility Development Fund)?

Already in place:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/red%20and%20blue%20foundation/tabid/7496/default.aspx

& I believe it's tax deductable...

Yep, this is probably the closest the club has to a perpetual donation stream. It has been engineered constructively around club operations rather than just a continual begging of money though which it sounds like Richmond may be accused of down the track. I thought this had the same online payment scheme as DD though and wasn't this once an option when renewing membership? Either way I think the donation form is cumbersome - there should be a real time option via verisign or whatever it is for one off payments and perhaps could be advertised a little more on the website.

I like the range of memberhsip add ons now although the 'My Melbourne Football Club Account Manager' is pretty ordinary IMO.

From club email

The Demons now have a full senior list, and will add six more players to their rookie list on December 7.

Yeah, saw that. Will be an interesting draft.

That 'Cam Schwab' bloke seems like a good poster.

So we're making the best of a less than desirable situation. One that meets practicality (white), purpose (incorporation of MCC link and no cartoon) and no doubt asthetics if our current direction is anything to go by. On top of that the club has indicated it's preference/rationale for wearing a clash strip as little as possible (if at all). Can't complain with that IMO.

I agree that the Essendon situation is in need of clarification by the AFL.

Great news that young Jack has committed to the Dees early on and has (as the club puts it) a clear path now.

Just a little hazy on what exactly it was that he signed (contract/MOU) and curious about any exclusion clauses.

In any case it's a positive announcement and with news like this it would be easy to understand why up and coming players would see MFC as a great club to be a part of.

Indeed, we're in furious agreement here. This line of conversation started with Peanuts refuting the general "vibe" that all debt is bad debt, when it isn't necessarily the case. I don't reckon you'd find much disagreement to the fact that our specific debt was hurting us.

If that was his specific point then fair enough Nasher.

FWIW I think such a generic post would have left those posters he was addressing none the wiser but anyway it's all good.

Otherwise debt is usually a necessary evil that businesses need to grow their asset base.

Of course, good vs bad debt. Only 3 years ago we weren't growing our asset base were we? We were struggling to come to terms with football operations and the interest was making a bad situation worse. We had bad debt to the tune of about 5 mill.

The banks' opinion would've been that it was fine so long as your cash flow is sufficient to cover your repayments.

Our debt was increasing, do you think our cash flow was adequate to cover our repayments?

Debt covenenants exist for a reason, sure they would have loved taking us to the cleaners while the AFL was propping us up but take out the assistance from the AFL and sooner or later they would have marked us as a bad investment.

Actually, the banks in general want want businesses to go in to debt so they can make a fortune from the interest.

They also like secure investments that don't need to be wound up. CBA are trying to get a lot of risky loan holders off their books atm.

Problem is, it will be very difficult for us to build income-earning assets without going back into debt. There is nothing wrong with that in business, but not sure if it would be an easy message to sell to members/media.

Nigh impossible which is why I hope we consolidate brieftly before branching out but obviously the club knows what it's doing. At least it will be good debt rather than bad debt (unless the investments themselves turn bad - but hopefully that is a "Collingwood thing" ).

35k+ members (and growing) this coming season would do wonders for our stability so we can start thinking about long term investments.

Some members may misunderstand but I think the media aren't that silly. They know that building an asset base is crucial for modern AFL clubs and I dare say they would view this as progress for us - although there is nothing to stop them from speculating on the type of investments we make I suppose.

Debt is not the problem, cash flow is, but for many that is a very hard thing to understand.

Not sure the bank/s would have agreed with that when we no doubt were pushing our debt covenants to the limit and needed the AFL to bail us out to stop them from taking action.

Obviously cash flow is the life blood of day to day operations, without a strong cash flow you become insolvent but debt nearly made us extinct and the interest on our debt would have affected our cash reserves in any case.

It is simply scary how strong Collingwood have become financially.

They have a revaluation decrement of 4.35 mill on non-current assets and still manage a net profit of 1 mill. They also have significant cash reserves/flow from increased revenue to smash 8mill of debt within one period (or at least that is the way it reads, perhaps part of that 8mill includes previous payments - either way it's insane).

2.2 mill simply from increased membership revenue.

If we made a commitment to rookie Tom Mac then we are down to 5 spots. This year we are allowed to defer one rookie selection until after the NAB cup, so that leaves 4. If one of those goes on the Jamar Insurance mature bodied ruckman, there are three left.

...

So overall I can't see there is a major problem with filling our rookie list, leaving one spot for an ends-of-Nab-Cup selection.

Some good points there GOLF, I agree on Newton, 1 way or the other his rookie spot should be freed up.

I guess for me the sticking point is how likely is the club to delist rookies after 1 year, as you say part of listing them is to keep an eye on them but development is also a factor as well.

If they are more likely to hold on to them for another year in principle then I'd take a conservative approach with the ifs and buts (not that I necessarily think your cases don't make sense).

Thanks to 'Alpha33' we know our picks in a compromised rookie draft are 14, 31, 48, 63, 76, 84. Ok so we don't use 84 and save a spot for a trainee as you pointed out. We are still going with picks up to 76. I realise we are venturing into the unknown a bit and the dynamic is not entirely the same as the national draft but still we are talking more than smokies here at 63 and 76.

Say at the end of the year we (conservatively) estimate 2 spots freed up. Newton goes and possibly a rookie is elevated. It leaves us with 2 rookie picks in next year's (uncompromised) rookie draft if the club is committed to the remaining rookies from a developmental perspective.

Again, if the club will happily let some of them go at the end of 1 yr it is a moot point.

Which pick do you think we'll use for McNamara given that we'll want to prioritise early picks for player roles ie insurance ruck?

So roughly half of our senior list is 190cm or taller. With Viney on board we should be putting together some pretty effective defensive zones down the track especially as the new recruits have the mobility and speed.

Well there you go. Thanks 1858.

Irrespective of whether they are 1yr or 2yr contracts I still think you have made an interesting point Forge.

We may try to strike a balance here. You'd think that unless a rookie was absolutely terrible they would probably be given another year simply for development anyway so it means we may needlessly end up comitting to too many unlikely prospects if we go too deep. Possibly at the expence of 1 or more promising rookies the following year. We have 6 spots, I don't know if there is a minimum requirement but perhaps we may fill about 4 of those spots as a guess.

just because we have 6 rookie spots doesn't mean we will use them all.

Rookies get a 2year deal don't they?

I'm assuming that Newton only got a one year offer. But I hardly see the point on loading up on 6 rookies this year if we can only take 1 next year.

21.2.3 Contract of Service

(a) Where a Club includes a Player on its Rookie List, it shall:-

(i) in the case of an International Player, enter into a

Contract of Service for a minimum of 2 AFL Football

Seasons; or

(ii) in the case any other Player, enter into a Contract of

Service for a minimum of 1 AFL Football Season.

Heard that rumour earlier today, totally untrue.

Reece Conca was one of the original 25 invited by the AFL to be live at the Gold Coast. He was always going.

Cheers for the clarification.

This is from Tugga, a mod on the Richmond board on BF:

"The AFL wants all top 10 draftees there for TV purposes seeing as Fox are making a big deal of the top 10.

Conca has been flown up to the Gold Coast today at the late request of one club so it can only mean one thing.

Welcome to Punt Rd Reece Conca."

Make of it what you will.

San Francisco Giants (Baseball), New York Giants (American Football), and there was a melbourne basketball team named Giants...basketball being an american import....I can't think of it being used in Non USA related sports?

You'd be hard pressed to find any significant sporting institutions around the world (named the 'Giants') without some connotation extending from US franchises IMO although I wouldn't go so far to say they don't exist.

Out of the USA, the Tokyo Giants come to mind as a prominent brand and of course they are a baseball team which supports your arguement. Interestingly their colours (similar to San Francisco) are Orange, Black and White which it sounds GWS may be employing. Personally I have no problem with GWS going with 'Giants' but it could potentially be more of an extension from Americanised sporting brands than need be if they simply copy the colours as well.

Word is its GWS Giants. Hate them already. What an awful American-franchise-artificial-basketball sounding nick name. Jumper looks crap too. About as good an effort as this:

I agree but that is probably part of the AFL strategy of converting the NRL masses of the west. GWS is a gimmick so why fight it, the AFL is looking at a superficial market anyway which over time will ideally become more in tune with an Aussie Rules psyche. People who are voting for different names, designs etc are probably not the people the AFL are worried about.

I actually don't mind the colour scheme, if they do it right it will look good on tv - ie against Carlton, Freo (Passionfruit cup) and any other darker uniforms. Also the reverse colour scheme may look ok. The main design is unimaginative and the 'G' resembles a 'C' but it is at least unique.

Either way it just reinforces how damned good our guernsey is. B)

The picture of Mr. Wonaeamirri and Jimmy Stynes hugging after that win against Brisbane will always live in the memory.

Genuinely one of my all time favourite footballing moments (now memory).

Condolences to the Wonaeamirri family and the Tiwi community.