Great Sage

I never said these exaggerations didn't exist - I simply wanted Stuie and Co. to isolate those views they see as disrespectful so they can address those comments that, I believe, have merit:

1. Moloney's worst games and best games are a mile apart.

2. In losses he averaged 10 possessions less than in wins.

3. The guy is flawed. As a consistent footy player and a leader. The guy is flawed.

4. He is our best player, a near elite clearance player, and can be a top 20 mid in 2012 with consistent application and performance.

More than happy for people to take this post and dissect it, rather than brush my, and a few others, concerns aside because someone exaggerated on an internet forum...

My comments were general rather than specific as I do not have an issue with any individual posters, just think that some get carried away with their opinions and how they articulate them.

If I was to disect your points specifically, I would say that I agree with 1,2 & 4 whilst understanding that individual performances can be influenced by team performance when it comes to supply, blocking, defensive efforst and time in possession. On point 3 I do not know if he is flawed (particularly as a leader) and would agree with Neeld when he says you need to be in the inner sanctum to truly understand a club/player. However I am curious as to what changed your opinion of Beamers leadership from your first post in this thread to now?

Had a great 2011 against poor teams.

Obviously a leader.

Hope he can have a consistent 2012 against all teams.

rpfc "Love to see the posts that show a 'lack of respect' just so they can be properly and directly torn apart rather than just loosely mentioned as lacking respect."

stuie has already mentioned them. "flat track bully" "not a leaders toenail" plus "he just aint that smart" "the guy goes missing when you need him the most"

Rhino Richards "There is a yawning gap of difference of discussing the strengths and weakness of a player and personal abuse (walk down the street advise people as they pass that they are fat, ugly, smell...etc because they are such upfront straight shooters). Re read, re think and try again."

Agree Rhino, and there certainly is valid discussion re strengths and weaknesses with differing opinions which is understandable. However, if someone says "you just aint that smart" most people would take it to mean "you are dumb" You could soften "ugly" in the same way by saying "he just aint that attractive" but few would doubt what you mean in either instance.

I love reading the different opinions from fellow supporters on this site as they can be thought provoking and make you see things in a different light. What annoys me though are personal attacks made by people who would not have the courage to say it to the players face. I'm not just speaking about this thread or Beamer in particular, this happened to be the thread I was reading when I made my orginal post and I could not be bothered creating a new thread. I sure if I trawled posts re Cale Morton I would find examples of abuse that Cale would find more offensive than ugly or smell.

Wow.... If this is the level of respect a player who gives as much as Beamer does gets from some on this board, then I would hate to see some posts (hopefully deleted anyway) for those who give less. I hope that all new recruits are told never to read this board as why would you want to bleed for a group of keyboard warriors who will turn on you in an instant and highlight every perceived flaw they can identify. For in some instances, 19- 20 year old kids trying to succeed in an extremely competitive and scrutinised industry to be subject to some of the abuse on this site makes me sick. I know that some are just being honest and calling it how they see it, but I do wonder if these same people when they walk down the street advise people as they pass that they are fat, ugly, smell...etc because they are such upfront straight shooters. I doubt it!!!!!

I am reminded of a show I saw (can't remember what it was called) where a group of AFL players visited a particularly abusive fans place of work and heckled her from outside the front window. The fan was promptly reduced to tears and claimed to be scarred by the incident.

Is it conceivable that despite what people may think, many players do give their all but find their performance is restricted by skill, talent, injury, coaching, game plans, luck, so on...? If application is the sole determinant of performance, then there would not be as much distinction between A, B, C, D grade players. If you can do better then please put your name in the draft and come save our club. Be prepared for abuse, ridicule and unfounded rumours though, because that is how we treat those we support.

edited for spelling

I also made it down to my first ever training this morning. I did not take notes or anything but am happy to answer any questions that you may have.

As Nick mentioned, main session involved match simulation. A couple of impressions:

It was very congested with strong emphasis on structures and accountability. There was a good level of talk and camaraderie.

MORTON – Thought Cale was very good. Mainly played HBF on Dunn and took some good marks due to reading the play and disposed of the ball well. Was one instance when Dunn clearly had Cale out positioned, but he managed a last minute desperate lunge to punch the ball away which drew praise from coaches and teammates.

GRIMES – Played the entire match in defence with his usual aplomb. Backed into a pack with no regard for his personal wellbeing to spoil a mark, luckily his teammates looked after him.

TAPSCOTT & JORDIE – Both played in the scratch match in addition to the walking and running Nick mentioned. Tappy  played midfield with some penetrating lace out passes.

COOK – Took some solid grabs based on good body positioning and kicked well. Still a while away from seniors but appeared to have space and time, just needs patience and experience.

GYSBERTS – Good in heavy traffic with some key clearances.

JONES – Always hard at it. Keeps pushing himself,  tackled well and disposed well.

DAVEY – Did not star, but no sign of the apathy mentioned in other reports. Played forward.

HOWE – Love his work. One easy goal kicked as a result of him launching himself at a pack and knocking the ball clear which was subsequently crumbed by a player running past.

BATE – Did not complete the entire session due a knock during the scratch match. Not sure whether it was a rolled ankle or a corkie, but don’t think it was anything serious.

Don't care anymore. But it does show how difficult it has been for GWS to recruit big names, if to get a kid with questions over his knee they had to make him the highest paid player in the league AND offer his father a full time job. All this talk of targetting young stars is spin. They were not able to convince a single established star to play for their club.

I'd have thought if there was anyone contracted that we want we would have targeted them. St kilda would have been bargaining from a weak position which determines price.

Great post BJ

Morton will a great outside wingman, but at best a competent inside midfielder. We need to play to his strengths not focus on his weaknesses. Trying to change Morton to a tough inside player will be as successful as trying to change Jordie Mckenzie to a fast outside player

Yes, I want us to be known as a tough, hard team but you still need different skill sets within the whole. He is more like Embley than Kerr

A couple of BigFooty posters have mentioned that they said on last night's telecast something about Scully having a new manager?

Anyone heard anything about this? Or what was said on the telecast? I'm thinking maybe it was a tongue in cheek reference made by one of the commentators as this would be big news if true.

Healy said something along the lines of "Have you heard the rumour that Mark Kleiman will be the new 'something?' manager at 3AW"

Pickering responded "Was that a bus you just put me in front of? Since you were the one who told me the rumour why don't you tell us about it."

They both laughed and nothing else was said.

Several years ago, I played golf with a guy who previously worked for Leading Teams. He was also a close friend of the person placed with Melbourne at the time (from memory - Jim Plunket). James McDonald had recently been appointed Captain and I asked him what he thought about the appointment.

He explained that the days of the coaching committee picking the best player are well and truly behind us. Whilst the players vote, it is not like a 3,2,1 Brownlow scenario. Instead they (and the coaching staff) rate the players on a series of individual Key Performance Indicators. Once this is done it becomes apparent who should captain. These indicators are often different to public perceptions.

At the time, he mentioned that Junior was the most important appointment that Melbourne made as part of their rebuilding with a young list strategy. A similar process also saw Tom Harley appointed ahead of more talented or more fancied teammates at Geelong.

He was very complimentry of Stynes & Co and the culture that Melbourne were developing. I am confident that whoever is appointed will be the best decision for the club and not necessarily the person who the wider community expect.

Yep agree, they will look to our next skipper, but my point is they may start to question, "how long can we look up to him (the next captain)"

If what has happened is a once off, i wouldn’t be to concerned but its not.

The answer to that would be another 4 years, given McDonald captained to age 34. I doubt anyone would be assuming that Green will definitely be captain at age 35.

What as a player?????????????

Yep. There is an article in the Australian today.

Nathan Jones manager was on SEN this morning and stated that Nathan was close to agreeing to a new deal with the Dees. He also manages James McDonald and they were keen to talk about him going to the Blues.

Thanks Nudge.

I love hearing what's in the wind despite understanding that most of it will not eventuate.

I'm with Peanuts on this one. I do not see what we have to lose by trying this option. If Garland goes forward and pays well, we would definitely be a better team. If he doesn't do well then we can shift him back.

It also gives us the opportunity to see if Cheney/Strauss/McNamara can cut it at AFL level at the expense of (probably Miller) who we already know is not a long term option. We need to make important list decisions at the end of the year on some of these players, t makes sense to test them in the heat of battle. It also makes sense to do this in a season where we are unlikely to make finals (which hopefully will be the last year that people say that about us with any confidence).

FWIW I like Cheney and see him as a Peter Walsh type player who could be a solid and consistent contributor.

Just read the article and thought exactly the same thing

I don't think that any of the players mentioned are up to it at the moment. With time, hopefully Spencer or Fitzpatrick will be. There are problems with all of our option at the moment.

Spencer: Can ruck but litlle value forward when not rucking

PJ: Little value in ruck, no value anywhere else

Fitzpatrick: not ready this year, hopefully will be in future

Miller: Could be serviceable as 2nd ruck, can get the ball up forward but butchers it

Martin: Not sure - I think his position is CHB, but another tall won't fit in our current backline

Newton: Servicable 2nd ruck, no value anywhere else

The option that I would try for a couple of weeks would be Dunn. Particularly when we are playing a team without 2 quality rucks (which is quite a few). Whilst Dunn would be only serviceable at best, Jamar will ruck for most of the day anyway. The clear value is that Dunn has far more other uses than the other players mentioned. He can play forward or midfield, he will not restrict our rotations off the bench like a Spencer & PJ, nor will he hinder the development of our forward line like Miller. Why does our second ruck have to rest foward anyway? If Bailey wants to rest Jamar at full forward that's fine. Whilst Dunn could play there in patches, he could also rotate through half forward.

What we have lacked for the past few weeks with PJ & Martin in the side is flexibility. If they struggle up forward then they end up wasting a spot on the bench. Let's be honest even if Dunn has a stinker in the ruck but is OK everywhere else he will still be better value than PJ in particular.

I like Buckley and wish him all the best at Collingwood. It's always a shame to see a guy who loves the club get traded, however I couldn't see him him holding down a regular spot in our team over the next few years.

For me it all comes down to price. If you had to trade a good player or an early draft pick then the answer would be no. However if you are talking Bell, Miller or a late draft pick I would do it in a heartbeat. This could only happen if he falls out of favour at Essendon which would reduce his trade value and the club believes they could get a better return from Alwyn than he currently provides.

The jury is still out on DB, but he has earned the right to show what he can do with a list that he has had the guts to get.

The other point to consider is "Is there an outstanding coach waiting in the wings?"

A benefit of waiting an extra year is that coach's like Malthouse become available. Even Garry Lyon may have shown some talent or developed the urge to coach. I'm not saying that I want these guys, but it would be nice to have some options. You would also think that our list would be very attractive for a coach (this time)

Everyone forgets about Miller as a KPP. He plays CFH/FF and has another 5 years left.

Put in some good forwards around him and a good midfield and he will be a better player.

Must admit that I don't really consider Miller as a long term option. However if he sticks with lead / mark / handpass to whichever of Morton, Sylvia, Maric, Strauss, Trengove, Tapscott, Davey, Blease, Gysbert, Scully, Grimes or Wonna who happen to be running past towards goal he could cause some problems.

Ox just stated on SEN that Davey is very close to signing a 3 year deal with the Dee's. He also added that Melbourne would be very very happy with pick 11 for Brock.

He does, but interestingly he kicked 19.8 this year and was a very steady set shot. He's a relatively poor kick, but they nearly always seemed to go through. Where I stand in the MCC we often commented on it.

He took quite a few marks close to goal this season which would have helped his average.

Given that the Kaspersky sponsorship deal was done and dusted in such a short period of time. I wonder if we were negotiating with Betezy to be our 2nd guernsey sponsor?

Can't thank you enough for your efforts Andrew.

I will be converting to Kaspersky as soon as my current antivirus expires.

A fantastic idea!!

I have forwarded the email from the club to all of my outlook contacts