hoopla

This can only be positive. There must be a clause that either party can pull the pin if succession doesn't feel right after two years.

Must be - but it would cost heaps not just in $$'s but in credibility - if we have any left !

Be interesting to see whether it leads to any sort of fallout amongst our present assistant coaches. Rawlings who became Roos' senior assistant will effectively get demoted the day Goodwin arrives. Even if Rawlings has no aspirations to go higher , he'll need to quickly come to respect the new man or his job satisfaction/motivation will disappear pretty quickly

As I said before replace the term "Essendon" with " a Finals team" in his pedigree and it reads very well !!

I know that Goodwin was an excellent player and on-field leader- probably underrated here in Victoria and he must have been an impressive new retiree to get the gig at Essendon in the first place. Clearly Bomber Thompson must have given Roos the thumbs up - and Craig must hold him in high regard . Not sure but might have been Bernie Vince's first AFL captain as well.

Unfortunately I struggle to see anyone associated with Essendon as the blue -eyed boy we are going to build our future on - but I'll put that behind me if Roos gives him the nod.

The name "Party Boy" fits a troll well - but I wouldn't be surprised if he's proved right.

The running runour is Bucks wants everyone to be clones of what he was on-field - soulless obsessive-compulsives who run themselves into the ground. If you aren't, you're out.

Have heard from a Collingwood supporter who knows Harry personally that he is a terrific bloke - and footballer - who is not happy with Bucks rigid regime.

Harry is absolutely committed to being the best player he can be - but struggles with Buckley's determination to build a team of clones. Points out that Dawes and Taylor will know him - and will be encouraging Roos to snap him up.

His run would certainly be an asset

We are now up to page 13 on a thread about a player who retired for health reasons - and has said or done nothing to indicate that his illness is now well behind him - and who has said or done even less to indicate that he is planning a return to AFL football.

We should respect his decision to retire. This thread should retire as well.- and not reopen until and unless Mitch announces that he is making a comeback!

Honestly I can't hold it against Frawley when he leaves. It is a completely different situation to Thompson or Scully. He's been here for 8 seasons and seen 38 wins and 7 coaches with no indication we'll be playing finals anything soon. He could stay here his whole career and never see finals or he can go to any multitude of teams and play finals next year. I don't begrudge him going whereas Scully had been here 5 minutes and Thompson left just as he was about to come good after he'd been injured most of his career. We were also playing finals when Thompson left.

Got to agree.

For all that he's has been an ordinary player for the past two years - and good luck to the club who picks him up. The compensation will depend purely on how much he gets paid - because that is a clear indication of his "value" . We should be talking him up!!!

Went to school with Viney - which gives us a link. But also went to school with McRae and Hrovat - which gives W Bulldogs a link - and they need KPPs. If he doesn't go to one of the strong clubs - I reckon the Dogs would offer him more than we will

Now ...theres probably absolutely nothing to read into this

Will Evans, the son of former Essendon boss David Evans, quits Bombers just as Hird set to return

some curiousities:

In an intriguing twist of timing, the son of former club chairman David Evans has tendered his resignation at Essendon and will leave the club just as James Hird returns from suspension.

This is utter nonsense

Coincidentally Will Evans has just completed a short trainee-ship prior to long-time planned travel and study

Some of these journo's would fish for stories in the middle of the Nullabor Plain ........... and tell you they're about to hook a Great White!

That's a bit of a fall from grace for Dom Barry if he finds himself in the Casey twos!

Even if he doesn't play in the two's big kick in the guts to name him there. Only 2 weeks ago , he was playing AFL. Just had his contract extended as well

Must have done/ be doing something wrong

The AFL has done its bit BTGID and from here on in,it will make sure a decimated EFC gets every chance to compete and regain its self esteem,Whether it be a money draw,financial help,draft help or any other means.

The AFL dont want dead clubs,they want 18 even franchises.

Hate to say it but you are right. As much as the AFL wants clubs to "tow the line" it knows that it cannot disenfranchise the large supporter base Essendon represents.

Behind closed doors, I think you'd find that the AFL would like to see Hird destroyed to demonstrate that no individual is bigger than the game - with Little to follow.

The only good thing about Essendon's recent on field success is that it will make it harder for Little to give Hird his job back. True to form Hird will insist on a full payout - which will focus attention on Little's stupidity in extending the contract of a suspended person.

You'd hope that would lead to a spill of Board positions - and a clean slate

As for the players? You can understand why none of them want to admit to being a drug cheat - but the longer they hold out against their infraction notices , the harder it will be for ASADA to discount the penalty

There are two key dates coming up - the date of the court case and the date Hird has a contractual right to return to the coach's box.

IHS

The case put by the Bombers to have the joint Investigation decaled illegal and all the evidence chucked out is in the opinion of some on here and obviously ASADA, not strong. Even if the Judge finds the jont investigation illegal there are a range of discretionary reasons that the judge can use to allow theinvestigation to proceed. Historically Courts are loath to throw entire cases out on technicalities unless the reasons are compelling. The case put by Essendon is based more on how the AFL rules were used rather than actions taken for which no powers exist.

The fact that Essendon have taken this action rather than answer the show cause and show why they should not be listed on the register by the ADRVP indicates that they themselves believe that the evidence against them is compelling and that infractions are likely to follow. If they has evidence that showed they did nothing wrong they would use it.

Taking this action may ultimately negatively impact on the Bombers as it means remissions to any bans may not be available to them.

The show cause was a concrete step that made things worse for the Bombers.

I really struggle to understand how Essendon can sustain their argument when they stated repeatedly that they welcomed - and would cooperate with - the joint investigation. Even if the judge decides that ASADA somehow operated outside its charter, it would be stretching the point to rule that evidence given by an organisation that "wanted the truth to come out" [

ought to be suppressed.

As long as ASADA is permitted to use the evidence - even if they are forced to do so by re-issuing the infraction notices - Essendon will only have succeeded in wasting time and money.The interests of "justice" will be well served if the deadline for show cause letters now falls a week before the finals - with the officials receiving their notices the following day!

Just talking short term 'BB', not sure we would be able to launch next season, we would probably have to have had the discussion with the VFL already for that to take place. We can't let things drift though and need to do something for the coming season.

Some of the posts on this topic seem to be based on the view that there are two clear options - continuation of the "alignment with the Casey Scorpions" or a standalone "Melbourne VFL" side based somewhere closer to the city.

On the face of it Hawthorn don't have a standalone VFL team. But I think I'm right in saying that Hawthorn effectively control the Box Hill Hawks on the field - which gives them all the benefits of their own VFL team without all the establishment costs

I think I'm right in saying that we signed an agreement with the City of Casey to stay out there for 20 years. We have already invested heavily in the Casey area. The answer might lie somewhere in the middle with team called the Casey Demons - which would leave the Casey community with a VFL- presence and the MFC with control over player development.( along the lines of the Box Hill Hawks)

I know its a long way to drive for many of us - but the ground work has been done.I'd like to know exactly what the Casey arrangement is - do we have a long term commitment to play as the Casey Scorpions under a separate Casey elected Board. - or is it a commitment to ensure that Casey retains a VFL team under a constitution which allows Melbourne to control football operations.

It might not be perfect - but I'd be happy with an arrangement like this. I'd really like to understand exactly what our commitments are?

Casey beats the bottom side that is disbanding, by 2 points, in the last minute. Looking good for Casey.

The future of our alignment with Casey should just about be Jackson's number one priority at the moment. If we are going to improve our on-field performance and develop the right culture going forward, then we have to get complete control of our VFL team. I don't care what we call it - but we need to employ the coaches and support staff - so we can mix and match training drills, game plans , player positioning etc.

Some cynic will say we must be getting close to that now ........... because Casey is getting thumped just like we are !!

Does anybody know exactly what is happening behind the scenes ?

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-09/its-all-about-the-essendon-players

Damien barrett recycles caro

I never thought I'd see the day - but credit where credit is due - Damien,, this is a superb piece of clear thinking which Mr Justice Middleton should use as the basis of his judgment!

The other day I walked into a discussion around the coffee machine. One Essendon supporter was bemoaning the fact that he kids were getting hammered around the playground at school by an increasing number of friends who are seeing Little's Essendon as a blind self-serving mob of cheats unashamedly trying to beat the system on a technicality.

Keep going the way you are Mr Little - and you really will create a " Little Essendon" to be known not as the Bombers but as the "MH 370s"

Under the Roos' philosophy - I dont expect any more than 2-3 changes this week - simply because except for Jetta and perhaps JKH and Tapscott - nobody has done enough at Casey to warrant promotion.Without knowing the roles they have been given it is difficult for us to judge players like Barry, Salem and Bail.

I suspect that one of the reasons Big Max was selected is that he gives the opposition ruckman someone else to think about which makes Jamar a better player.The tag team worked in a day game against the Bulldogs. It didn't work in a night game against Freo. I reckon they knew that was a possibility when they decided to go with it.

Jetta in and perhaps one or two other changes at most

I would do it in a heart beat as well, but I'm just not convinced at this stage that there are midfielders available that will warrant a pick at the top end of the draft. I'm worried that GWS, unless a player is desperate to come back to Vic, will be interested in yet more picks when it's clear they need more experience rather than youth. Outside of their plethora of mids I'm not sure who we will target and just who is actually available for the price we can pay.

Chip is one of only a handful of Melbourne players who would get a game in most - if not all - the other 17 clubs.Whether or not we use the compensation for his loss to find a first grade midfielder is problematical. In pure trade terms, I'm not sure you can say anything other than that.

There is another issue at play here.What does it telegraph to the rest of the football community that a senior player turns his back on $1m over 3 to 5 years to be part of what Paul Roos is building here? How much more are we going to have to pay to entice someone away from GWS,say, if they see a senior player who has been part of Roos' Melbourne walk out the door?

We can rationalise - "it's just the money" - but the suspicion that he doubts Roos' ability to turn us into a serious contender in the next 5 years will remain. As a show of faith in the club - and in Roos ability to develop a suitable successor - I think it is important that Chip stays.

If Roosy really is building belief - then all his team leaders - should want to stay.

Mitchell and Viney played junior school footy together before Mitchell headed west - and Viney south west. Word around the place at the time was that Mitchell was just as good if not better than Viney at that age...................... which says something!!

Todd Viney would have his ear to the ground if there was any chance of prising Mitchell out of Sydney

He's great gut runner and a beautiful left foot kick.Most important of all, he's quality young man.

Realistically West Coast will play hard ball . Talk about him again when he's a free agent

so essendrug will pay for the players' lawyers to sue the club? excellent

Well they re-contracted the man who inspired the whole program, and then denied his duty of care to the players. Shortly after that they agreed to pay him during his suspension.The Little-man likes throwing money away....................

Hang all this Latin

I have always had a lot of sympathy for Jack Watts. He is not built to play tough man on man footy against key defenders - and I thought that Roos' decision to develop him as a midfielder might be a turning point for him. He ran hard against St Kilda and won a lot of the ball.His body language was positive.

Since then he has had to spend a bit of time as a forward - and his apparent unwllingness/inability to apply pressure to the opposition seems to have returned - even when he is in the midfield. In many ways I found his lacklustre performance on Saturday one of the most disappointing aspects of the game. I just hope he was carrying an injury.

I agree with those posters who have said that they believe that Roos regards "Project Watts" as a special challenge. Whether or not he is dropped this week or named on the bench or named to start in the midfield will tell us how patient Roos is prepared to be.

Whispering, I'm slowly coming around to a belief that there may well be more to play out. For a substantial length of time I've been a non believer regarding the Bummers being brought to account. Not having Dank can be viewed as a positive in terms of them having a strong case regardless.

Yes RtG , I must retract my increasing scepticism as well.

Interesting that Lane's article came out the same day as the heavily censored "interview with Hird " (aka the collection of carefully planned quotes from 'Hird Sympathisers') in the Age Good Weekend.

I think I've covered this at least twice before on this thread. WADA has already stated that AOD9604 is prohibited and was, at all material times, prohibited. Under the AFL drug code, it doesn't matter if ASADA told Dank the drug was OK (for which there is no evidence), if Watson took what he has admitted to taking them it's goodbye Jobe.

What should have happened and what actually has happened ( and will continue to happen) are are not necessarily the same thing, Jobe remains free and clear. If that is to change then it should have changed before now. I don't accept that the continuing delays are consistent with a well managed investigation.

Francis Leach adds his views on the situation as ASADA continues to come under fire Drugs in sport: One year on, its just one big joke but, whilst the length of time taken to complete the investigation is a source of frustration to many, I don't believe ASADA is under an obligation to allow this to be played out publicly any more than does the ACC whose investigation into organised crime and the importation of illegal drugs prompted all this.

Every once in a while we read about a major bust netting $millions of illegal drugs - these are often the product of lengthy investigations by crime authorities and nobody bats an eyelid. But because the subject matter involves prominent sporting clubs and their employee players we demand to be informed before the investigations are finalised. There may well be good reasons why this should not be the case.

I rarely take issue with WJ's well considered posts - but in this case I think he dismisses Francis Leach's views a little too lightly.

It is true that people don't "bat an eyelid" when "long drawn out" criminal, investigations lead to major drug busts - but these are investigations into continuing activities involving people whose habits, relationships, circumstances etc are either unchanged or camouflaged. Essendon's "questionable" behaviour was for a finite period lead by individuals who have already been sanctioned and/or publicly ridiculed.

If at some time in the future ASADA issues an infraction notice against Jobe Watson, it will almost certainly cite his public confession as a pivotal piece of evidence. It is stretching the bounds of probability to accept that there are good reasons to have allowed him to lead his club into a second season without the sniff of a charge despite that confession. ASADA's over-riding role is to remove the stain of potential drug abuse from Australian sport. Last year I was prepared to accept that the delay was part of a strategy to ensnare Stephen Dank - but if it is - it is increasingly looking like a flawed one!

If ASADA agrees that Watson's "confessed drug" was not illegal at the time, then it should have said so long ago

Hoopla, there are so many things wrong with this - you really need to read through some of the earlier discussion on this thread.

For starters, you have the standard of proof wrong which suggests that you miss the point that the investigation is being carried out not in the way it would be under our common law legal system but in accordance with the WADA Code which the AFL and it's players accept as the applicable law in these cases.

I recognize that the "burden of proof" does not operate as it does under the common law

I simply make the point that evidence of events which took place in 2012 is less likely to emerge in 2014 than it was in 2013 - and that it will be less likely again in 2015.

There are of course exceptions - but that is all they are- exceptions.

There have been many excellent posts on this thread. But as much as I would like to accept that well considered investigations are proceeding as quickly as circumstances permit I am afraid that I have now become a sceptic.

Hoopla,

I think the exact opposite. The lack of commentary/leaks from ASADA IMO is evidence of a well run ship. I dont think it would be the lack of trying by the media that information has not got out.

The investgation will take as long as the investigation takes. These things can take years. I dont know anymore than you but I suspect that evidence in relation to the Essendon investgation is closely linked to evidence relating the Cronulla investgation and that from ASAD's perspctive they need to resolve both in coordnation to maximise the outcomes aganst all suspects. I think that while the Essendon and Cronulla players and officials will be dealt with for breaches of the WADA code the key for ASADA will be to identify those persons invlved in the illegal trade and distribution of regulated subtances and refer evidence of possible crimnal matters to the Police. This will follow on from ASADA outcomes against players and officals and will be managed in cooperation with Federal and State Police. The long term aim of ASADA is to get these people and anyone associated with them out of sport for good not to issue infrngements against Essendon players.

You have great faith in the standard of investigation in this country.

Twelve months ago ASADA, and the ACCC stood behind the Minister as she told the world that performing enhancing drugs were rife in Australian sports. You see their deafening silence since then as evidence of a "well run ship". I hope you are correct - but as yet another season approaches, I think its more likely that the thing is stuck in ice in Antarctica or lost in the Bermuda triangle

I reckon there's one thing we would agree on - that people who see a need to warn people away with a photos of themselves on roller blades shouldn't promote the idea that posters "live and die by their user-name"

ASADA have said precious little since the whole saga hit the airwaves almost 12 months ago now - except that the enquiry is "not yet complete" !!

In fairness to everyone - Essendon players, Essendon supporters and the whole football community - they are obliged to make some sort of clear-cut statement sooner rather than later.

How many other incomplete files are piled up on the ASADA office floor at the moment - and how does it efficiently and effectively manage its limited resources if staff are shuffling inconclusive snippetts of information between them from one week to the next ?. Unless they have strong reason to believe that they will get Dank to "tell all" soon - and that his testimony will establish guilt - or innocence - beyond reasonable doubt, they must surely have developed an interim conclusion by now.. There is nothing to stop the file being re-opened if and when new evidence emerges

It is incongruous that they are actively working on pivotal evidence - without even a sniff of progress finding its way to the mainstream media. This is not an investigation into the behavior of a single athlete and his/her support team - but an investigation into behavior at an entire club operating in a fishbowl. Realistically not a lot can have been happening for several months now.

No doubt somebody will point out that these things always take time - but they wont convince me that ASADA's continuing silence isn't a reflection of indecision if not incompetence

Perhaps they have legal advice that they will avoid a lot of angst if they hold infraction notices until players retire.That way the plan may be to use Dustin Fletcher as a test case .... as long as he ever does retire, that is!!

The empty space at the foot of the foot of the club website makes a very loud statement!

If there is one thing the AFL could do for us right now it would to push a high profile sponsor our way. The rumoured draw certainly wont help !!

Big challenge for Bartlett , Jackson and Co

Any rumours out there?