hoopla

Is there a way that we can ask for special assisstance with the case of Trenners? In efffect he is unusable as a player for us [effectively a long term deposit]?! Can't we retain him outside of our list [and the Rookie list] so that we effectively have forty players at our disposal [and four rookies], the same as every other Club? I would be bitterly disappointed if we could not take Newton and also use pick 40.

I know that there are other player/rookie scenarios but the question is the same.

No we'll get the same same "assistance" every club gets when a player suffers a season long injury - the opportunity to upgrade a rookie to cover the" loss"

So there is no way that we are considering delisting the injured Trenners or the under-perfoming Evans and paying out their contracts? This is a massive shame as I am sure that there are players sitting around pick 40 [Oscar McDonald?] who may may improve our list better [and with more flexibility] in both the short and the long-term.

You may be right - but the odds weigh heavily against "Oscar" and other potential Pick 40's getting even one AFL game - much less improving our list.

In any event all remains quiet on the Newton front - so we might have to rely on pick 40 after all.

Remember the payouts that go with delsiting contracted players.

The club may be trying to make a profit and that could tip them into a loss.

Clearly we want to use draft picks and also clearly there are still players on the list who will not take us to finals, but there is a fine line to be walked in the negotiations me thinks.

All true. In our situation the difference between a relatively small profit and a relatively small loss, is quite important - and cannot be ignored.

Josh Mahoney last week on SA radio said we will have two live picks in the draft.

If we take Newton as a DFA, then you can switch off the draft after pick 3. Two rookie spots - perhaps one for Tapscott - and our list is set.

Mahoney might have said this in Adelaide - but its looking like gospel.

Roos' comments late in the season suggested a larger turnover of players than this - but Terlich is about the only "marginal" player coming out of contract we chose to re-sign. Terlich shaped like a good hard-running player in his first year - but too many mistakes seemed to emerge last year - and I expected us to let him go.Word was that he carried a few injuries in 2014 - so I'll bow to the club's better judgment..

Nothing is certain in list management. At one point we didn't think that Trenners was going to be on the list in 2015

Would be absolute insanity to trade in for pick 40 and not use it

The trade for pick 40 gave us the option of a speculative mid- draft pick. As events have transpired it appears as though we are going to be able to sneak a youngster with potential (Newton) directly on to the list as a DFA instead.If we have decided that Newton is a better prospect than the speculative pick we planned to take, then it would be insane to sit back and wait for whoever is available at 40.

I have stated as recently as yesterday if you look back on my threads on this topic that I think legal action against Essendon from various stakeholders (including players) will lead to the current Essendon going into liquidation and the liquidator will sell the brand into a new entity, but it will take them years to recover. I also think the penalties from WADA on the players may well be above the mooted 2 years and I think there is every likelihood Hird will get a life ban, and some EFC directors may get jail terms as a result of Workcover investigations which are likely to commence before Xmas. I don't resile from those predictions one iota.

I would have thought these outcomes are pretty substantial. Further investigations are difficult to predict until the wider scandal becomes apparent, but if the information I have is true it will be massive,

Very very very substantial outcomes, 2014.

Thankyou for stating them so clearly.

I have long been puzzled by Workcover's silence to date - and agree that they have the power to make the ASADA investigation seem a walk in the park by comparison. If your legal and other sources are Workcover-related, then your predictions certainly do have cred !

Hird and Little might just be wasting ammunition protecting the wrong border against a relatively small enemy!!

He must have something else on them, possibly unrelated to the drugs saga. That seems the only explanation. If I am right then it will come out, and it will become an even bigger scandal than it is now. My contacts in the legal profession have a very good idea of what it is, and if they are right, it will make the other sporting/social scandal in the last three years look tame by comparison, and will create international headlines even if there is no awareness of AFL as such in the international news outlets.

There is much more behind this than meets the eye and it is eye-bogglingly scandalous! Hird is a creep.

All this makes sense - the final sentence is obvious

2014, you have my attention. Do go on.

Likewise 2014- continue please ..............

There absolutely must be more to this story .. Dees2014 you must come through with the 'goods' otherwise how in hell are we going to get too sleep!

Fair's fair 2014.

You owe us more information.................

Unfortunately, I can't reveal what I know for obvious reasons, but if you look at the nature of this scandal, the people involved, it is not difficult to draw certain conclusions. I'm sure it will come out in the end, but beyond that I don't think I should comment further.

If you wont tell us what it is - then at least tell how and why it will come out when it hasn't come out already !!

And what effect will it have on the AFL when it does ?

If it is not difficult to draw certain conclusions, then surely you give can us a helpful hint! !!

They have already told him when to pay - why give him 7 days?

He is non compliant with AFL directives which surely means he could not be registered to partake in AFL in any official capacity.

Fair point on the 7 days . Just reckon one final warning is consistent with their silence on the matter as Friday's deadline came and went.

His speech at the best and fairest was odd and his inability to let go of the coaching position when he said previously he didn't want it was a dramatic turn around. The Suns quickly withdrew their interest - some sort of alarm bells were ringing.

He has withdrawn from the Coaches association, put the AFL seriously offside and has not spoken to Hird for a month without making it clear if he will stay with the Dons or not. His Press conference performances were entertaining but eccentric.

He has really isolated himself and looks to have no chance of getting a football dept position anytime soon.

There is something not right.

He is most definitely eccentric - and rebellious,Given the bizarre behavior that has gone on around him over the past couple of years. I'm not sure we can say much more.

To me, the issue is not Thompson's behavior - but the AFL's reaction to a refusal to accept sanction.Can anyone - for any reason - snub the AFL without a strong unhesitating response?

At a stretch, I guess I could give the AFL until the day after Cup Day to react - but not a day longer.

For some time now, the AFL has - quite appropriately - let ASADA take the lead in all aspects of this hideous debacle.

Now Bomber Thompson has reputedly refused to pay the $30k fine.

Others may know better than I - but I assume that Thompson has never signed anything making this a legally enforeceable debt. Even if he has - a long drawn out set of debt collection procedures which Thompson could string out for months/years wouldn't really send out the sort of message the AFL needs to broadcast

Putting this aside ,the AFL has 5 options

1. Call for payment within ,say 7 days, advising that failure to do so will be deemed contempt of competition rules leading to immediate disbarment from all /any AFL related positions for an indefinite period

2. Call for payment within, say 7 days, advising that the Commission will consider appropriate sanctions for non-payment at its next meeting

3. Call for payment within say 7 days advising that the Commission will await the outcome of ASADA' s action against the players before determining appropriate sanctions for non payment

4. Call for payment within say 7 days advising that the Commission will await the outcome of Hird' s appeal before determining appropriate sanctions for non-payment

5. Make no public statement indicating that it is a private matter between Thompson and itself.

As it has already been leaked to the media - and Thompson can comment at any time - Option 5 isn't really an option at all. As the fine was for bringing the game into disrepute the ongoing ASADA enquiry - and Hirds's appeal - is beside the point

If the AFL wishes to assert itself as a strong body operating under a set of rules agreed by all its member bodies, then surely Option 2 is unnecessarily weak and indecisive.

This leaves only Option 1- strong, clear, reasonable

Thompson may already have decided to step away from the game - and any sanctions will be inconsequential. But the AFL needs to jump in - and withdraw the right before Thompson thumbs his nose at the whole competition - and at the whole investigation.

And to give them their due they have performed admirably on the field against the odds....

Got to agree with that......n the field they have worked as a team

Doesn't the old saying "as thick as thieves" pick on the bond that develops between criminals as they plot and scheme to avoid being caught ?

Cannot agree with this one bit - FCS he may have only approached 400, or 350 even, because of illegal performance enhancing drugs.

Not my usual habit - I think its called trolling!!!

If you take illegal substances as a sportsman then you should expect a 2 year ban.

I seen nothing from these players eg remorse etc that deserves a reduction to the maximum penalty.

Well they happily toddled along to all the interviews at the appointed times - and apparently told the truth : "Yes we took the injections - but they were fine - Hirdy told us to sign a confidentiality document because he didn't want the other teams to know that we were getting our vitamins intravenously" .Didn't run away and pretend that they'd never seen a syringe - they cooperated . They are sorry the club dragged it all out by appealing - and they are sorry that Hirdy was misled by that Dank bloke.

Surely Its pretty clear that they shouldn't get the maximum penalty. They've even had to suffer through all Caro's criticisms of Hirdy. Just having to watch their club pay lawyers to wade through all that mail ought to be punishment enough,

At least you'd expect them to suspend Fletcher''s penalty until after his 400th game. It would be nice to think that even if the others cant play that day they'll be allowed on the field to carry the banner!.

Just home...just read this... hole in one ...well done

others could learn

Agree - good work Mr Smoker !!

Griffen's move must put us in the game. The Bulldogs want early picks to use on this year's crop of talls - and we are the only sellers around. If they can drag a young gun out of GWS for Griffen and give him to us - the Bulldogs can get what they want.

Patton's knee has gone and they wont get Boyd. What other currency can GWS offer them?

Surely at some point Worksafe must look at all this.

If one thing is clear - whatever drugs were administered to who - Essendon did not pay due attention to the health and welfare of its employees.

Worksafe exists to ensure that employers exercise due skill and care.in providing a safe work environment. In 2012 /13 the EFC did not.

Where are you, Worksafe?

collingwood went after brisbanes players and there was an instant statement backing their kids...

rumours about adam treloar and GWS put out a statement naming him a required player

i am extremely disappointed that the MFC didn't take the opportunity to pay back trengoves loyalty

imagine instead the headline "MFC sticks true to former captain"

imagine an article about the former skipper; after battling the twin issues of ASADA and his season ending navicular injury being told that he is still the future of the club even without the title. being told that he is more important to the club than the random kid we pick with 12.

remember when scully didn't sign on but trengove did?

can you imagine a club that repayed such loyalty in kind?

after all, how does one rebuild a culture?

Regrettably - and unjustly in many ways - Trenners is associated with a period in our history we need to forget, Through that action, Trenners demonstrated the sort of loyalty we would like to retain - but his premature elevation to the captaincy is part of the losing culture Roosy is trying to destroy - as he must.

I dont want Trenners to leave - but if he can buy us a winner I'll accept it.

I agree that he should be worth more than a speculative pick - and if we do the deal I'd expect it to be part of a trade for a proven player - directly or otherwise. I would accept it for instance if we trade picks 2 and/or 3 - and want 12 to keep us in the hunt for this year's talent pool,

Whatever he might think now- Trenners himself might be better off in a new environment.

Read a snippet that Kristian Jaksch has literally refused to talk to the bombers who showed interest in him.

Very plausible. I have had a few dealings with Kristian - and know him as someone who speaks his mind.

Seriously why would a young player who wants to settle into a footy club want to go anywhere near Essendon. Who's going to be coach? Who's going to be captain? What story are they going to spin you?

What about a young kid and his parents sweating on the draft? What would you fear most - an invitation to leave home for the joys of Western Sydney or a daily trip down the Tullamarine Freeway behind a convoy of lawyers?

Ready or not - I guess you might be a 'shoo in' to make your debut in Round 1 2015!!

essendon have to be going down the gurgler...surely !!

They cant keep sustaining hit after hit. Something has to give.

Am amazed they even have a sponsor to tell the truth.

How this doesnt bring the the game into disrepute I'll never understand

Seriously their refusal to accept the findings of a government law enforcement agency ( as now supported by a Federal Court judgment) is bringing the game into disrepute !!

The AFL pinged them for bringing the game into disrepute with a drug supplement program they ran in 2012 and early 2013.

What they've done in late 2013 and 2014 has done a lot more damage to the game. These actions under a different Chairman ought to prompt another disrepute charge - more damning than the other one!

It's been talked about a bit on trade radio. If a club has to give up something for a free agent then they explained that it would not be true free agency. Whether you like it or not, it's unlikely to change.

I don't really have a problem with clubs not having to give up picks, but I see a major problem with the "net total points". Hawthorn could theoretically sign Frawley, Higgins and Waite without it costing them anything. But after losing Frawley, we have no motivation to sign any free agents as it would water down our compo. Further to that if we were interested in signing a free agent, we would more than likely have to trade so as not to effect our compo.

The bottom clubs should, in theory, have the most cap room to throw money at free agents. But if we lose a good player, it's difficult to use without compromising compensation.

That might be the theory - but every ream has to pay 90-95% of the cap every year. If you don't have any standouts its not easy for weak clubs to create the space to throw $$$$ at free agents

Unbelievable. "Chairman Paul Little and chief executive Xavier Campbell have been told by senior players they want Hird to coach next year."

Who? How many? Robbo spinning crazily.

​I do wonder how Hird will come out of this. If he has the psychopathology I suspect, he will be vengeful, unrepentant and ready for new, promising ventures. If not, he'll be a train wreck.

Hang on ..... hasn't it also been written that the players desperately want Bomber ?

Who's calling the shots for that mob during trade week ?

3 teams have won the last 8 of 10 premierships. These three teams have all picked up great players in free agency and are odds on to be top 4 again next year with one of the three more likely than the rest of the comp to win again next year. Given that three clubs have 9 of the last 10 championships in the EPL I would say we already have the EPL like farce competition we all feared.

Free Agency is not the only reason we have this situation as it has been a slow degradation of the two lone bastions of equalisation in the AFL "competition". The salary cap and the draft. The AFL is already heinously inequitable when it comes to fixturing, blockbusters, match revenue, access to profitable time slots, football department spending, facilities and ability to have access to and affect decisions by chief AFL officials, but all these issues aside player movement is being degraded by 5 key factors:

1. The erosion of player loyalty and media acceptance of the most traitorous behaviour by players.

2. The ability of players to choose their destination in trades and FA. This has ruined the desired impact of the salary cap as low clubs who should be able to offer more lucrative contracts often don't even get to have a discussion with highly desired players. Also it has effected the draft as the system was meant to mean that the lowest finishing clubs either gain the best youngster with their draft pick or have the best pick to offer in a trade. Given that players don't field offers from the entire comp it means lower clubs can't use the low draft pick to bid on the best players, also it means clubs don't get the best available deal for the player, particularly if the player chooses a top team. This plays out in the Clark example where if the MFC could trade him to any club it could field offers from clubs like St Kilda and WB who can offer far better picks than his chosen club the cats where the demons are greatly limited in what deal they can strike due to the cats relatively low picks and advantage given melbourne can't meaningfully threaten not to deal with the cats. At the very least Melbourne could drive up Clarksville value by fielding other offers and force the cats to give up something of real value making it a more even competition, not just for the dees but for everyone, however this isn't an option as players choose their destination!

3. Draft picks ain't what they use to be. The increase in player movement has made high draft picks far less valuable. Given that if you have a player from ages 18-25 you are far less likely to see their best football especially given that the clubs receiving them usually are already vulnerable. Clubs are better off waiting and gaining players in their 25-29 yo prime via free agency or the aforementioned rigged trade system. This is why with both pick 1&2 on the trade table this year neither team will receive a tier 1 player as a trade.

4. Players are taking less lucrative contracts for success. Now that has happened with members of a team taking cuts to stay together (which ultimately negatively effects the salary cap mechanism) I think most footy fans are ok with this. But players are now moving clubs for less money to play in successful teams it is hurting those teams that happened to have the bad luck to be unsuccessful in this era more than ever before and has effectively made the equalisation effect of the salary cap non existent.

5. Finally free agency. Not only can top clubs now have the advantage of a rigged trade system ( one where clubs cannot even threaten to send a player to the draft due to the Luke Ball saga!) but they can grab the best players from any club in their prime for nothing. Mfc has lost one required player to a top 4 team every year that this system has existed and has gained discarded players who were likely to be delisted anyway and devalued draft picks in return. Not only does this make the teams that gain these players stronger making it near impossible for teams like melbourne to beat them given they had most likely lost to them in the year proceeding already but the loss of these players hurts melbourne more than most other clubs due to its already relatively small number of high quality players.

Needless to say 3 clubs 8 premierships ten years likely to become 3 clubs 9 premierships 11 years. A competition where only 3-5 clubs can win every year while the other 13 get worse is no competition at all. If Nathan Jones leaves MFC next year, or Dangefield goes to the swans, cats or hawks or any of the other bull@&$) scenarios likely to play out under this rigged system then I, someone who has loved AFL all my life and is a 26 year member of the demons will be turning my back on the sport.

I thought Australia was about the fair go, obviously not.

Very passionate Deejamin - and unfortunately very true.

Demetriou came to the top job via the AFLPA - and he came to the free trade table well and truly indoctrinated with their philosophies. Can/will McLachlan make his mark by simply saying NO to their push for even free-er trade.

Haven't read the most recent pages so apols if repeating stuff but I think its amazing how Hird and the club have painted themselves into a corner yet again. They can only be delusional.

They can't sack Hird because if they do Hird will have no standing in the court case where he says he is trying to protect the players (as if!). The club is trying to have it both ways as usual. Fight every absurd possibility while at the same time saying the players are innocent, we are doing everything for them.

Once Hird is not coach he is stuffed from an appeal perspective.

The main reason they can't sack Hird for appealing the dismissal of their case - is that he will make sure they pay him out in full!!

Whilst you may be correct, 'hoopla', wasn't it Dank that said that he kept records so, as an extension of that, might he still have them? The records may have also been put "aside" (conveniently) Who knows?

The other thing you won't hear the media talk about (or indeed the general footy public) are the benefits that the players might have received from "possibly" taking PED's. Again, if it were say, a professional cyclist, we would almost automatically assume that they're performing better because of the PED's.

You rarely if ever hear people or anyone in the media say that Essendon are playing finals because they took PED's. That probably would have happened if they'd snagged a flag but in my eyes, improvement can come from taking PED's without winning - per se.

An example of that is the 'Tour de France' of say, 10 years ago ... if an abundance of cyclists were on the gear, it stands to reason that a number of those cyclists gained benefit but didn't even come close to getting a podium finish in any of the stages. They still took PED's though. I've got an acquaintance who used to ride in the smaller events in Europe and he reckons that at one stage 90% of the cyclists were on the gear.

Nobody seems to remember that before an abnormal number of soft tissue injuries swept through the club, Essendon played surprisingly brilliant footy in 2013. Something did enhance their performance in early 2013 ............... it was supposed to be the Weapon's brutal pre-season training regime as I recall

It still astounds me about the amount of injections that were to be implemented with the program that they had cooked up. Not only did they overstep the mark, they went right past the mark to extreme levels.

There was talk that the entire program was to involve anywhere from 15,000 to 40,000 injections although that figure may have been exaggerated

Essendon players were last year urged to have one injection a week

I have no doubt that they deliberately muddied or destroyed the records for individual players as part of a strategy to avoid penalties.

When theystarted out Hird should have checked with his lawyer wife who would have told him that under the ASADA Act the burden of proof shifts to the accused.

Is the AFLPA there as a body to represent all players?

With comments like that it starts to sound more like a player management firm for the elite players only. Are the rest of its constituents so dim as to not realize that unless they are top players, their "free movement" policy has destined them to never win a premiership.

In an even comp perhaps 4 teams win the comp in 5 or 6 years. In this compromised system, maybe only 2. That's a lot of players never seeing that cup glory for the sake of free player movement

One of the things that worries me is that if the APLPA argue that the qualifying period of service should fall to help "lesser" players - which is what they have touted recently - we'll get to my greatest fear about free agency - eroding club loyalty completely!!

Either they have to limit the ability of players to go to the top 4 teams - or perhaps tax the total contract amounts the Top 4 teams pay free agents in the year of transfer and include the tax in the TPP. This would be consistent with the equalisation policies of a competition keen to avoid litigation for restraint of trade

As Roos said biggest anti equalisation policy to be implemented .... Very concerning to hear from the players association saying that the players should not

be responsible for the equalisation of the comp... Well last time I checked it was players who kicked the ball, marked & scored etc... They must remember that we have 18 teams in this so called comp & someone has to finish last & only 22 players can be premiers each year!

One of the arguments for free agency was that it would give players starved of opportunity a chance to develop their careers. It was supposed to help blokes who spent half their time in the VFL get to a club that would give them a regular game. All it has done has been to give players the opportunity to exploit the development programs of the weaker clubs en route to a crack at a premiership with an established club - which blocks the path of the VFL players the rule was supposed to help!!

Something has to happen to make it harder for senior players at bottom clubs to get to top clubs.

The list is getting longer...

Tippett - mid range club to premiers

Goddard- bottom club to potential finalist

Thomas - Slipping top 8 club to supposed finalist

Del Santo- bottom club to potential finalist

Frawley - bottom club to premier

Higgins- low/middle club to top 4 club

Waite- middle club to top 4 club

Waite and Higgins when carrying injuries have played a few VFL games. The rest have been walk up start AFL players

The opportunity to be part of a premiership side is not only what players cherish from a playing perspective - but its also the key to more $$$. Matt Spangher - premiership player - can all of a sudden claim a bit of coin on the speakers circuit!

Traditionally trade unions have stood for equal opportunity for all workers, The AFLPA has held out for rules which allow the fortunate few to build more successful careers than their slightly less gifted cronies

How important ? Hardly at all

Now , think first. Anything he can add , if back to his best , is a little bit of icing , but if I read the gist to mean is it imprtant in the sense of would we/ can we without him, then of course we can so he's hardly a pillar of our progress

Quite frankly ive already written him off.

Therefore anything is a bonus.

Trenners isnt crucial to our forward progress.

Hate to say it - but I have to agree.

I have a great deal of respect for the guy - but I don't really expect him to be much more than a depth player going forward. It's not just that he's slow - but that he has no acceleration and no "stop and turn" tricks to compensate.

If I'm wrong then he'll be a terrific bonus

Neither Patrick Smith nor Caroline Wilson were ever sticking their necks out. Both were just reporting on events in a normal fashion. If it had have been Cronulla only, most of the Melbourne media and the footy public would have had a field day.

Most others in the media and indeed most in the general footy public had their collective heads in a bucket of sand because ... at the guts of the whole thing was that the game had to be protected so therefore Essendon had to be protected. Now that we're slowly getting overwhelming evidence that implicates Essendon, a large majority of people are simply taking up the view that they could have taken up from the start (or should have)

I still come across a lot of people who don't want the players to cop bans because they feel it will hurt the game (excluding most Bomber fans who are hopelessly compromised)

Of course if it were Chinese swimmers, professional cyclists, American track & field sprinters, Bulgarian weightlifters or Russian middle distance runners we were talking about ... different story. The finger gets pointed almost automatically when it's not close to home.

I've retained some sympathy for the players in all this - because the younger players at least had been hammered to believe 'one in all in". They were in an elite environment overseen by a champion of the game - you do what you are told to do. I have been rounded on by others who have said that the minute a person over 18 has to to sign a disclaimer he ought to know he's on the knife edge of legality- and seek expert counsel.Still they did what the team was expected to do.

This is where Hird's behaviour throughout has been reprehensible .As he said alongside David Evans - and has since denied and denied - I am responsible for what happens to the player group. Had it not been for him drawing the Little faction to the head of the Committee - all this would have played out so differently. Hird's stance now is semi- delusional - and must certainly be motivated by a determination to build up his bank balance any way he can.

It is astounding that Worksafe haven't jumped on to pile - it may be that ASADA has asked them to keep their powder dry for now

The Social Litigator makes at least one point that must surely sink Hird's ploy at the starting gate

For whatever reason , Hird is asking the Court to rule that ASADA's investigation was illegal and that the evidence that it obtained ought to be thrown out.

Simultaneously he comes out and announces that he doesn't want to delay the show cause notices !!

So he is happy for the players to go through the ordeal of defending themselves against evidence he wants the Federal Court to quash! So the players are found guilty - accept suspensions - and he bobs up with a Court ruling that the suspensions weren't based on valid evidence !!

The man's flipped!! Sounds like the ideal man to coach Essendon!

What happened to stu dew?

He re-signed with Sydney. Apparently lifestyle - other half is a Sydney-sider - as much as football