Nasher

Shocking that a second year key defender who would still be knocked over by a stiff breeze would be beaten in one-on-ones.

Even then I'd baulk. IMO for any player-for-draft-pick trade to be worth the risk, the player has to be expendable, i.e. if you trade him and then draft a dud (always a highly likely outcome, regardless of draft position), what's the net loss? I believe the net loss for losing Rivers would be too high, as he is a player with rare abilities for reading the play, and he has leadership qualities. If we were talking about someone like Bruce, he's a very good but flawed player, so while we'd lose a very good player we'd also lose a player who is a liability with his disposal at times. He's the sort I'd be looking at trading for picks. TJ was also a very good player-for-pick trade.

There's no point resting him if he's good to go, that will just delay his development. I agree that there's no point playing him unless he's 100% though.

I really doubt the net result of four players off + four players on will be us being under the salary floor. We'd need to be pretty much sitting on it already, which I'm quite confident we're not.

The most sensible post in this thread so far.

I know it's got little to do with the topic, but I like Peter Donegan as a commentator. I reckon he's got a voice that is pleasant on the ears, unlike the screeching cats like McAvaney and Hudson.

It's a credit to our club's marketing that we can attract about 2/3 the number of members as the Swans with only 1/10th the supporter base. Or, the poll is a crock.

I understand that you think he doesn't have the class. I'm not a complete idiot (don't bother responding to that). I don't understand the conclusion you have drawn from it. How'd you rate Brett Kirk when he started playing? FWIW I agree that he lacks class, and no I don't think he'd get a gig in the Geelong team. IMO there's room for one player like Bartram in most teams though, so the blanket assertion that he's not good enough to play in any premiership side is one that I don't think is correct to make. Robert Copeland and Rowan Jones have premiership medallions to their names after all.

Why is it juvenile? I was offering to provide evidence for my assertion. That may well be the case (and it's an argument that has been done to death on here that I can't be bothered with), but that's got nothing to do with the criteria for pass/fail on one individual pick.

! Then he can go down as the first player in history to miss a game with a broken nose.

I'm hoping Holland will line up at Full Forward. We haven't anybody else.

Yes. I will definitely settle for fair to good as a pass for pick 15. If you want, later on I'll average up the number of duds taken in the the 10-20 range in the last 10 years and we can look at what the trends are.

I agree. I'm particularly worried about Dunn. He's been one of the worst of a bad lot so far this year. A real worry. Bell's a fair-to-good player in my eyes, that should rate as a break-even when marking the recruiters.

That doesn't make sense. Class isn't a prerequisite for playing in a premiership side.

I don't necessarily disagree Scoop, but as I said, the majority of AFL coaches would. Bailey has made it abundantly clear that he will still be doing everything he can to get wins on the board. With that in mind, the Yze selection should be easy to understand. You might not agree, but at least there's a reason behind it. That said, Yze stunk on Sunday.

Because he has been in good form at Sandy. What's so hard to understand about that? No side has ever, nor will they ever implement a "strictly youth only" policy; that's a myth created by fans. Coaches with youth policies never have two eyes firmly fixed on the future, there's always one eye on the "now" element as well, so if the coach believes a player will add to the side now, he'll be picked. I don't see what's so shockingly mortifying about that.

Meesen had a big reputation at under age level, considered equally as good if not better than Wood, and was taken at #8 in the national draft (ahead of Wood). If that's not a 'prospect' then I don't know what is. I haven't written Meesen off by any stretch, but I just have a hard time getting excited over recruiting raw ruckmen from other clubs, just because of how easy it is for a ruckman to turn out to be a dud. I don't know what all the fuss over Warnock. Admittedly I have not seen him play, but he can't get a gig in the Freo side, and being a ruck "prospect" makes me nervous. He may well be the next Dean Cox, but what's to say he won't be the next Peter Street or Barry Brooks? They were both prospects too once. The other thing is, how many rucks do we want to develop? Jamar, PJ and Meesen are all contracted for next year, and unlike many I'd be surprised if White retired. If we took Warnock as well, that'd be 5 ruckmen on our senior list, as well as whatever may be on the rookie list at the time (e.g. Spencer). That's up to 6 ruckmen we have to find positions for each week. Where would they all play? And how will that effect the rest of the dynamic of our list, considering they'd be taking valuable spots we'd need for smalls?

This would be the biggest recruiting coup since... John Meesen.

In: Yze, C.Johnson, White, Wheatley, Sylvia, Dunn, Bode Out: Morton (flu), Davey (hamstring), Jamar, Valenti

I assume he means Jake Williams.

With those changes, we don't have a single marking, goal kicking forward. I wonder when the list time we played without all three of Neitz, Robertson or Holland was? I really hope Holland is fit.

It's fine, I wasn't at all offended, I found it pretty funny actually.

Haha! Don't tell my wife! :D

So which is it? Was what I said downright insulting, or was it a non-definitive ("open-ended") assessment? It can't be both.

It wasn't an opinion I was expressing though, it was an assessment of where he's at, and at the moment he's nowhere. Are you disputing that? There's nothing for me to get out of. My opinion is that he's very talented, but all over the place and could go either way, so I have no idea if he's going to make it or not. Both sides have a strong case.