Wrecker45

Gillian Triggs starts most of her sentences with one or the other. Not a politician I know.

Fair call, particularly, given he hates the Clintons. That said as a lame duck president Obama did get most of his stuff done through Executive Orders and Trump was pretty explicit in the fact he was going to undo Obama's legacy.

Choke I'm not going to keep arguing this because it is honestly not worth either of our time. Your welcome to have the last say but just in response to the above 1 - the source was anonymous. It fits your narrative and it may well be legitimate but the whole thing is so grubby from both sides I don't know what to believe. I'm glad Flynn has been caught out lying but counter terrorism surveillance operatives shouldn't be leaking to the media. It has political motive written all over it. They are not a fact checker organisation to keep the Government honest. 2 - I think it more likely a group set up to monitor the Government and officials would leak to the media about a Government official. Than a long standing counter terrorist operative spying on Russia just to fact check on a Government official and call him out for lying. That would be such a minor and incidental thing that they came accross and a massive breach of their duty. The whole thing is ludicrous no matter which way you look at it.

I'm was not arguing that the tapes / evidence doesn't exist of Flynn, my original question was how did you know that the evidence came as a result of surveillance on the Russian's and not on Trump or his team? You provided a quote from an anonymous source. I really don't think anything is certain in any of this.

Who did the US officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity speak to? The media? Forgive me if I am not 100% convinced. Would you believe counterintelligence operatives who spoke anonymously if they said Trump was monitored during the election campaign?

I'm not arguing either way Choke just interested how you know?

That's ok the Russian ones will...

I don't think my argument falls down. I'm saying Trump beats an often misleading and false media at their own game. He gets his own news out first. Who knows if its factual, completely misleading or if he even beliefs it himself.

Even before the advent of social media and before the internet was the main source of everyones news the Murdoch papers went further right and Fairfax papers went completely left. It was probably less a reflection on them than the general public who only read what they agree with. The papers were just satisfying a demand. Once everyone started getting their news manly from the net, the papers stopped making money and as a result they spent less money on quality journalism. The Australian is an exception in my opinion (I know most of you will find it too far right) the content and journalism is fantastic but it is running at a massive loss. Murdoch seems happy to subsidise it. And now as you point out the main news outlets are much more concerned about breaking a story first than fact checking or caring about the content. In a way it justifies Trumps prolific tweeting and he is beating a pathetic media at its own game. He'll get his own news out before any of them can.

Nut I'm so tied in a knot on this I don't know what to think. There are countless possibilitites 1) There is every possibility that Trump is just crazy and believed right wing conspiracies he read in Breibart 2) He was actually tapped and I've read countless ways that this could have been done both legally and by pushing boundaries. In which case Trump will reciprocate and tap whoever he pleases using the same means. 3 ) If he was tapped and it brought up nothing illegal but dropped key members of his team in it for meeting the Russians during the campaign. Not illegal but that is how they were caught out. 4) We will never know and there will be fake news slanting both ways that can never completely be believed or even ruled out 5) And the least likely of the above is Trump does have some evidence to come out

And here is a pretty detailed timeline on known events. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/03/mark-levin-obama-used-police-state-tactics-undermine-trump/ You guys can dismiss it all you want because it is in breibart but it doesn't make it any less real.

I know it is not concrete evidence. It is looking likely though. Note I didn't suggest his phone was tapped. https://heatst.com/world/exclusive-fbi-granted-fisa-warrant-covering-trump-camps-ties-to-russia/

So now it appears a server in the Trump Towers was being monitored "tapped" at request of Obama and his Department of (in)Justice during the election campaign at a time everyone was screaming at Trump for saying he would set up a special team to investigate Clinton's illegal server. The irony.

I'm glad I'm not under that scutiny. I,ve ingested some late night souvlaki's that have left me wondering.

The US Stockmarket up 3 trillion since Trump took over. The numbers don't lie.

Hopefully she doesn't call it opera care.

Except the over rated ones like Meryl Srteep

Only 7 and a bit more years to go. This thread will be pretty long by then if not deleted.

Diesel had a handball from inside to outside that never missed. It wasn't the team objective to do it back then. He just got it and did it. He was the cleanest in an era handbills weren't as essential to team plans. Oliver is better at it than Diesel but it is more common now and all teams have an instruction to do it. I see Oliver more like Voss than Diesel. I guess they all have the same quality they always get the ball first. Oliver and Voss just have bigger frames.

Give me one flag to watch with my dad and sister who I have gone with every single week since before Jim Stynes ran over the mark. Just one and I will be happy. My daughter now comes with us.

I don't normally post about soccer but thought I'd see if this had been mentioned. It seems to me like sacking Norm Smith except worse. If Goodwin wins us a premiership I want a statue of him at the G and a liscence for him to coach as long as he likes.

I'm sorry for your German Shepard. Unfortunately, I can't understand the rest of your post. He wasn't a guide dog was he?

No ProDee called you out. The inversion doesn't work because centre right is free thinking. The left is for followers. I know your opinion on gay marriage, climate change, Donald trump, big government etc...

I'm on the right. What issues am i supposed to be avoiding that don't suit my agenda? What collective am i scared to break rank and stray from?

I will hold your bet on Trump not lasting 100 days. Even money. How much do you want on it?