Wrecker45

The other thing is IF the Russian's were leaking (and they probably were): 1) What was leaked from the Podesta emails, although illegally obtained, is still accurate. 2) I'm guessing they have emails from Republicans too 3) Why do the Russian's back Trump? it's not like he is a stooge who can be bought. He could probably buy Russia.

Completely agree Choke. We can all only hope for the truth but the problem is even if we got it, i doubt most of us would believe it. Who can you trust in all this? Certainly not Trump, the Clintons the CIA, the DOJ. James Comey looks an idiot at the moment but i probably trust him most. Even if we were staring at the truth we probably wouldn't know.

The 3rd and problematic possibility is that a sitting president was "wire tapping" a potential political rival to his party without probable cause. As far as I can read into it, they had permission to investigate dealings with a Russian bank originally but then kept the tap going. But there is so much contradictory news on it I don't know what to believe. The funny thing is the more officials that come out and say Trump wasn't being "wire tapped" the more I believe he was. It is just so messy it is impossible to seperate fact from fiction. This works to Trump's advantage. I don't think it's a confirmation bias thing by me, I have plenty of that but admit it when it's there. He is at war with the media and the Government agencies and it takes two to Tango.

I honestly don't get it. Trump is probably borderline insane but you cannot become President against all odds without some smarts. He doesn't drink so he is not just getting blind and tweeting rubbish. Something set him off. I honestly hope it was more than just right wing conspiracy news. And then there is FBI director James Comey who a week out from the election re-opens the Clinton case (it stinks) then shuts it down again days before the election. The damage was done. The same bloke now comes out and says they are investigating Russian links to Republicans in the alleged Russian hacking. Has Comey got look at me syndrome? He would want to have this one right because he is looking pretty silly at the moment.

The heat is completely disproportionate. Hird the fall guy. Bomber Thompson a more experienced administrator and the man who got the crooks to the club somehow escapes the heat. I could go on but that is the blindingly obvious example.

Hird will cop heat here for his responsibility over this debacle. Rightly so, but probably disproportionately for mine. i won't derail this thread and will start another thread in the next week or so on the General Board but Demetriou has a stench about him. Not just in this drugepisode but every business venture he has touched since.

It was James Comey Director of the FBI who re-opened the case on Clinton. It was the Department of Justice who cleared Clinton very quickly but wont confirm or deny the wiretap on Trump. Ultimately the Department of Justice has administrative control of the FBI but they are separate entities.

Nut - I'm not saying anyone said the Podesta emails were fake news. Just pointing out how so many Democrats blame fake news for the loss yet the loss was in large due to the most real news you can get. However, illegal. I know there is much more to it but I do see an irony there. Was just trying to point that out. On your second point there is enough evidence and counter evidence to argue any point in the hacking. It probably was the Russians. The security agencies are pointing their finger that way but then the CIA seems to have a leak within and that leak shows they can hack and leave other countries fingerprints on it. As I understand the DOJ have still have yet to confirm or deny a wiretap on Trump. They were very quick to say there was nothing to see here about Clintons illegal home server. I smell a rat.

Podesta's emails were as real as they come. That was my point blaming "fake news" was funny. The hacking is alledged to be by the Russians. Julian Assange who leaked it swears it wasn't, not that i trust him. There is no proof it was the Russians just as there is no proof Trump had his "wire tapped".

I mist admit i find it funny when people blame "fake news" for the democrats loss. The Podesta emails crushed them and are about as real news as you can get.

I went to moomba and enjoyed it. My immediate concerns and thoughts though are about wikleaks and Julian Assange. If Bitter but Optimistic was lockedup up in the Ecuadorian embassy i would buy shares in tissues

Voss or Macloed. Its a tough choice...

$51 was available for me and I didn't have a massive go. I tried to put a bet on and the screen sat there thinking for ages and they eventually let me have $20 on it and wouldn't allow the rest of the bet. Then I noticed the odds had been adjusted.

not anymore. I tried for the $51 and they wouldn't take my bet and then moved him in to $15.

Does anyone else think Oliver is really good value at $34 for most brownlow votes of any Melbourne player? Max Gawn and Viney obvious dangers but $34 seems pretty good to me?

For the record I fall into the non-expert category who sees whatever I want.

https://www.wired.com/2017/03/wikileaks-cia-dump-gives-russian-hacking-deniers-perfect-ammo/ This pretty much sums up the wikileaks and the surrounding politics from the above article: it has unleashed a cloud of confusion that makes it hard for experts to discern the facts and easy for non-experts to see whatever they want.

I'll be doing the same when I come across them. A bit like how I don't stop at traffic lights if I lived in or spent a lot of time in the suburb before they were there. It hasn't failed me yet.

Trump does seem to be blessed by the leaks every time. I don't know if that is a fluke or more sinister.

Sorry to reply to this again Choke, particularly, after I said I wouldn't but in light of the wikileaks dump overnight I can't help myself. In regards to number 2 above it now seems the CIA have the capability to mimic foreign spyware and even make it seem as though the hacking is being executed by that foreign power. I don't like Assange and don't trust him but none the less he swears the Russians didn't leak to him during the election campaign. I can't keep up with who is spying on who and who is leaking on who and what is real and what is fake news. Ordinarily, I'd trust the New President who came in promising to drain the swamp but he is potentially the least trustworthy of them all.

Don't get me wrong I agree with you it's just the market can't take its course. Know idea how it will play out when tariffs are put in place. I don't think it will magically re-create old industries and jobs.

But I think that's the whole point the market can't take its course if there are tariffs being imposed on the US but they are not imposing them back to the same extent.

If and i imagine it is Trumps main concern that the US are getting bad trading "deals". Is it too simpler solution to just mirror the tarrifs each of the trading partners are imposing on the US? Forgetting for a second that would be in breach of the WTO's rules.

Gillian Triggs starts most of her sentences with one or the other. Not a politician I know.

Fair call, particularly, given he hates the Clintons. That said as a lame duck president Obama did get most of his stuff done through Executive Orders and Trump was pretty explicit in the fact he was going to undo Obama's legacy.