layzie

Absolutely, but it has to be both. The forward movement is one thing and it really astounds me that this is the same every week. However this year the one problem we haven't had is a supply of fresh meat produce because he have some A-grade butchers distributing from the middle. Binman really hit the nail on the podcast when he mentioned that these guys looked like above average or even decent kicks in 21-23 because the gameplan at the time allowed them accelerate away from the contest and launch it in where guys like T-mac and co would get it to ground for the mosquito fleet to get to work. Now these guys are being asked to hit guys on the chest with much more regularity and surprise it isn't working. I do agree though, too many of our forwards like to lead back to goal. It almost the forward structure version of the 'bees to the honeypot' issue that the midfield had.

I still want to see Viney played as a pressure forward and I hope it's not abandoned. Just because he had to go into the middle and helped us a lot when he did doesn't mean the experiment was a failure. 1 quarter is a useless sample size.

Mentioned this recently, but it saddens me that some winning streaks over teams were broken this year. North, Hawthorn St Kilda. These were ironically long term losing streaks that we needed to break to develop as a team that was genuinely going forward back around 2017/18. The last streak that I'm proud of isn't really a long one, but that Rd 10 game at Adelaide oval against the Crows was up there with one of the best I've watched. This game will forever be Clayton Oliver's finest hour for me. I am still absolutely awe shocked every time I think about the game he played that day. His acceleration out of the contest, the ball would always bounce directly up to him he literally had it on a string. And I just remember being so, so angry about losing this game. I like to think that this one point loss was the catalyst for our side binding together and going on to win the flag but I hated this loss so much that I personally swore that we wouldn't lose to Adelaide again ala Paul Chapman against the Hawks. Ok, in modern day AFL I'd take a 5-7 year stretch of beating them. Sadly this does not look to be. It would be nice to get a surprise but it's a tall order that would need to be a birthday and Christmas present. I'd rather get the new runners I've been putting off...

I was strong on fitness being a big factor in our first 5 losses this season. It's much more complex than that now. It's all of what you've said: personnel, holes in the list, poor coaching, psychology, decision making, execution of fundamental skills and yes probably still some fitness issues. It's a tangled web and I sure as hell am not going to try and fix it.

It really is a write off season now. No big calls will be made with an acting pres, CEO that starts later this year and a coach that probably won't know his future until the above get sorted. Put yourself in carbonite and set the timer to unfreeze in 6 months.

Yeah this. Missed a month of pre season or so.

I don't watch a lot of VFL these days but I'm wondering if some regulars here know much about the defensive structure that Casey plays? Do they work with zones like the seniors or is it more man on man based due to the nature of the side changing so much and being difficult to form the cohesion necessary for zoning. Lever being dropped last week got me thinking about this. Could the structure have been different to what he was used to?

First quarters matter. How often do you win when down 4 or 5 goals at QT? It happens but it's a low percentage. Carlton is an outlier altogether, for whatever reason they don't have the fitness or mentality to sustain their efforts.

I'm undecided as well. I'm also willing to admit that I don't have to love whatever decision is made for it to be the correct one, the people closest will have the best info. We can't be pointing to one thing, it quite complex the situation we have gotten ourselves into. Whether it's coaching, list management, fitness, culture I don't think any of these areas have been functioning at the elite level. Time will tell, I just hope we can get a few wins and show some kind of development in the game style.

Basketball backgrounds have worked really well for us lately. But sure why not give the guy a chance.

Who can be sure of anything with these things now? A good job creation opportunity for the AFL would be to employ people to do umpiring transcripts. What was paid, what was said, what happened after etc. It would be a mix of Champion Data stats research and interrogation.

What service offers this though? I reckon I'd happily look into something like a subscription service during the season for premium stats. For now we're lucky to have The work of Wheel O Ratings which helps a lot. I stand behind my crazy conspiracy theory though. Premium stats are kept for the network mouthpieces so you have to listen to them, down the ground footage is kept for the brains trust on the Murdoch based footy shows during the week so we're forced to watch them. We really are through the looking glass people...

It really has become an extra bargaining chip layer at the trade table. "We'll pay a bit more if we can extract a bit more draft juice out of you." Works in some cases but I do wonder if clubs offer this a bit willy nilly. I don't know what the right way is these days but I'm also a bit old school and would prefer we rip it up, take a fair trade and start fresh.

After the smoke settled and I studied the pressure ratings with eyes that were blind but now can see, I was drawn to our 2nd quarter 213 pressure rating. After the Tigers game, it's our best pressure quarter this season and I think it was reflected in the eyeball test. The commentators did their annoying thing of pumping up the team 5 goals down and saying they were still in it but I think they were right. The intent was there but we just couldn't make the in-roads we needed to. There were moments where we would force a great turnover like Trac at half back when he intercepted and then kicked 3 metres into the man in front of him, if he kicks it over the top we easily get a run and a chance at goal. Then there was Salem finding Melksham in the pocket with a kick that may have just been a tiny bit high which Jake bobbled marking. I'd argue if our skill level was 10% better in that quarter we would have gone into half time a couple of goals down at most.

They should make that stat available, but of course they need to lock some away so the experts can look like experts god bless 'em.

Wouldn't say GC put the cue in the rack but their pressure rating 166 as opposed to their first quarter 209 is a fair tapering off. Regardless of whether they did or not I still get sceptical around how much you can realistically take out of a last quarter like ours. Its definitely a positive and glad they didn't give up but it buries the lead on what the real problems are and I can name at least 6 or 7 games that have gone this way this year.

Can we go home now?

It does seem to be the first thing that people jump to. No one stat can really measure all round effort but in times like this I do like to check the pressure ratings. GC's first quarter pressure rating was 209 while their 4th quarter rating was 166. Our first quarter 160 and our last 170. It does suggest that it wasn't GC's best quarter for effort but again, it doesn't tell everything. Interestingly we had 213 in the second quarter and I do feel this was probably our best 'effort' quarter. We couldn't quite get the reward for it and make the in-roads we needed to but we were right in their faces. Which makes me even more annoyed about the meek first quarter intensity.

My thoughts exactly Unc. I thought Joeboy wasn't far off with his assessment and at first couldn't imagine people could even have 6 players in the votes thread but Return to Glory's post did deviate my thinking slightly on how I evaluated the performances. It's ok to have stances questioned, anyone who does it respectfully doesn't demand that you change it. I think it can be confusing because so many people on here don't do that and gaslight you if your take differs slightly to theirs. Appreciate both Joeboy's and RFG's contributions.

If you don't acquaint, then show restraint...

Fair point. I tend to vote Trac lately because of work rate. Not having his best season but I don't believe it's from a lack of trying. 7 clearances, 10 SIs, I wish there were others stepping up to take the votes but there just wasn't much to choose from. Also where can you get kicking eff % stats from? Would be very keen to see these.

Two goals that pumped me to fever pitch, to the point where I wanted to run onto the field and play: Neitz crunching McCabe then swinging round to drill it Travis Johnstone dobbing it from 50 on the angle moments after Matty Whelan poleaxed James Hird in the Essendon final.

3 road games in 4 weeks? Sure, not ideal. 6 of the first 7 games in VIC wasn't too bad though. And remember when we hated our mid-year bye being a 10 day break? Here's a 13 day break now but oh too much travel! It's not invalid but really this has probably been the toughest part of our draw all season, with mostly a full list to choose from. Say it out loud.

I cannot for the life of me get my head around this one. Yes, we've seen it before but this week it really ticked me off big time. We come off a bye with a point to prove and a coach who is getting crucified and we hardly put up a whimper. At this point you'd almost rather be smashed because then at least you know what you're dealing with, but the fact that this team needs to be 6 goals down to start putting in an effort suggests a psychological issue much more complex than most of us are qualified for. And I'm not just potting Melbourne here either. I saw Paddy Cripps and Jacob Weitering come out during last week and throw huge support behind their coach. They were going to make a statement to show this and look what happened next. There are some plausible excuses for things that happen in this sport as much as we hate to hear them but not being 'ready' for a game of AFL or turning up with 3/10 effort from the word go is a cardinal sin. At least Carlton had a 6 day break excuse to wheel out.

Empty, gone, rooms have been ransacked and the house has been moved brick by brick to Coorparoo.