DangerousDemon

Good post, and great thread. Maybe one of the best around here for a while.

In reply, you seemed to indicate that the question was whether he should be playing senior footy or not due to a lack of confidence, but then stated that the question was whether he would put on weight.

I would think that those two questions are unrelated. Many slight players over the years have had unquestionable courage. Ricky Petterd is a prime example and currently on our list.

I think the question should be, will he gain this courage and decisiveness by playing 5-10 games at casey where his build is less of an issue, and where the intensity is a bit lower, allowing him to get his disposal right. And, will it then be transferrable to AFL level when he is promoted.

Also DangerousDemon, any chance you would join the discussion in the Newton thread. Would love to hear your thoughts in there, without highjacking this one.

I sorry I do apologize for adding insightfulness and some critique to this argument which is far from anything lot of posters offer on here. If you feel that I have hijacked the thread closely monitor the other people who post on this site.

I agree.

We are being way too conservative, which iis strange as we threw an anorexic Cale Morton out there last year.

Doesn't seem to have done him any harm.

YM,

Please read my thought in another post on this " is Cale Morton ready for senior football" and then recosider your own theory on that.

cheers.

Firstly I am not a player basher and I don't enjoy criticising one of our own. There will be some strong reaction to this I am sure but here goes.

Cale Morton should not be playing senior football at the moment. He just does not have the confidence in his body to put his head over the footy and win possession. He shows all of the classic actions of a player playing with fear, taking his eye of the football at the crucial moment. I would also suggest that fear is the major reason that his disposal can be less that satisfactory.

I watched Cale closely yesterday and he shirked not one or two but numerous contests. I know he is just a kid but continually shirking these contests can't be tolerated by the club regardless of the experience of the player and is much more onerous than other mistakes that are made on a footy field. Cale himself need to understand his reponsibilities before career long habits are developed. If cale doesn't have the confidence in his body then he needs to train and build up to get to the stage where he has.

I understand that we have one or two others that are not physically ready for AFL footy at the moment but at least they keep thier eyes on the footy.

I played footy for a long time and perhaps I am a bit old fashioned but fear and uncertainty spread like a cancer in a club and courage should be the minimum requirement for any player who pulls on our guernsey.

The club is hopefully entering a period of improved depth and needs to take a stand on issues such as courage, accountabilty and workrate.

Hi,

Great post here on a very debatable issue which was raised rather vehemently by a few supporters over the weekend. I am a clinical psychologist and have also watched Cale closely, and posted on this very topic in the past. To reiterate what I had previously posted I feel there are more applicable displays of his immaturity than merely putting his head over the ball. I agree with you comments on football completely concur with your thoughts on putting the head over the ball. I dont feel this is old fashioned at all, and maybe some of our players, not just Cale but other senior players should be taking the initiative and putting their own heads on the line. Cale's body language is less than authoritative , is tentative and is indecisive both when he warms up at the beginning of the game during it. I agree that his decision making is often clouded. I feel this is due to the fact that he dreads making errors. I viewed the hun today and his clanger rate is up again this week. Listening to this young man speak his intelligence and love for football is obvious and with this as a predictor, I think Cale would look at these stats. Therefore I think the weight of expectation is the problem it is written all over him week after week. The Brendon Lade incident a few weeks back cemented my thoughts, and I totally agree that if he is not already effected by this, he will be in the future if this continues. There are other players who could play this position, maybe less adequately, but they could at least hold their own. They will remain nameless because of the backlash others posters may attribute to the sentiment.

In my opinion, and I could be proven wrong here in the future, I feel that this indecisiveness in Cale may never be eradicated. Psychologically this fear will impede him longitudinally and this will make him a good but not great player. I feel his brother Jaryd, who is on hawthorns list will potentially be a superior footballer based on his greater intent and ferocity. I hope I am proven wrong.

The club psychologist will know this because it is their job to do so. In my view they have made an error drafting this young man. This is so sad because he is probably my favorite player at the moment. The question is will he ever gain weight. Mitch Morton, an hardened player is not overly robust and neither is Jaryd?

We do need a wining culture. Don't forget we have a very young list and we can be critical of many players, but when you see their age and their current progression, all we need is better skill. But in reality are we going to win the flag, I would say no, if you don’t come 1st, then we may as well finish last. So let’s set our side up for decades of dominance and win only 3 more games. They can be against C/wood, Carl & EFC. I would be happy and show good 4 qtr effort in every game. This may be hard to swallow for now but to see the D's back to the success of the 50's, now I’d love to see that.

Name Age @ 1st May

Bennell, Jamie 18

Blease, Sam 18

Watts, Jack 18

McKenzie, Jordie 18

Cheney, Kyle 19

Grimes, Jack 19

Jetta, Neville 19

Maric, Addam 19

McNamara, Tom 19

Morton, Cale 19

Strauss, James 19

Healey, Rhys 19

Spencer, Jake 19

Zomer, Trent 19

Bail, Rohan 20

Frawley, James 20

Jurrah, Liam 20

Wonaeamirri, Austin 20

Bartram, Clint 21

Bate, Matthew 21

Dunn, Lynden 21

Garland, Colin 21

Jones, Nathan 21

Petterd, Ricky 21

Buckley, Simon 22

Martin, Stefan 22

Meesen, John 22

Newton, Michael 22

Hughes, Danny 22

Valenti, Shane 22

McLean, Brock 23

Rivers, Jared 24

Bell, Daniel 24

Johnson, Paul A. 24

Sylvia, Colin 24

Davey, Aaron 25

Jamar, Mark 25

Miller, Brad 25

Moloney, Brent 25

Warnock, Matthew 25

Green, Brad 28

Wheatley, Paul 28

Bruce, Cameron 29

Whelan, Matthew 29

Robertson, Russell 31

McDonald, James 32

He is trying to replicate Ports list when it won the flag. Take into account that Dean Bailey knows how to coach and he learnt from a man who has unquestionable football acumen in Mark Williams. After watching how his side dismantled the hawks on Saturday tactically I am sure we are in good strategic hands with dB who is reported to be even more of a tactician than Mark Williams. Just be patient guys as there are a number of guys who still have not played on our list yet and I know for a fact that Rowan Bail was singled out by Bailey for a particular role in our side. he is grooming the side to play a particular role in each position. I feel this is why Colin Sylvia is being tried in the forward line and on the ball, River at times played forward on Sunday when he pushed down there. it is obvious what role he wants Davey to fill.I think the game style, when implemented correctly will be very similar to Ports run and raid movement. This is why we have drafted the fine and rangy but speedy Sam Blease, james Straus who is good by both hand and foot and Kyle Cheney who is capable in both those areas and who reads the play so well. Cale Morton continues to develop his skills as a footballer and it was pleasing to see his smarts in tight on Sunday borking and faking handballs to give himself time. cale spends great amounts of time with Dean Bailey who does his best to educate this young and potentially great player.Cale has the potential to be our star of the future. I understand that Jack Watts has great raps on him but I see Morton as the lynch pin our our team for the next ten years. Watts comes from a basketball background, however it is the football brain that Morton possesses and Watts needs to build upon to make the transition from under 18 footballer to AFL footballer which sets him ahead in my book. Stefan martin has taken admirably to this task using his obvious intelligence and passion for the game to learn at a rapid rate. he is fast becoming a great close checking back-man who reads the play so beautifully and is in position to spoil on Que.

the tactic has merit. we just dont have the players to do it. the ball needs to be in the hands of a whelan, wheatley, jnr, garland rather than a warnock and meesen etc (his kick in the 2nd quarter was the dumbest thing ive ever seen)

we did try it too early in the second quarter though.

This cost us the momentum and two goals by my reasoning it was a really silly change of tempo in my book wrong time to do it. We were nailing Richmond in clearances and contested ball and gave them back the ascendancy.

I just want to add that I thought Colin Sylvia's forward pressure and tackling was first rate today, particularly in the first half. Remember this is what he was drafted for and he was revered at U18 level for his attacks on the ball. I can recall clearly one incident on our half forward line where he tackled and put his body in. We scored a goal through Brad Miller but I turned to my mate who is also a Melbourne supporter and said " That was because of Colin Sylvia". I am pleased to say that it wads the first time since Colin has been at our club that I have uttered those words. Those two goals from outside 50 were fantastic as he obviously thought what the hell and both kicks cleared the fence and were so important for us.I thought his presence round the ball even though it faded a little was really important for us just to compliment Beamer a little bit in that area. I really think Colin looks better when he plays on the ball rathe than as a half forward.

I cannot see Bartram as his opponent. What about Morton

Has the endurance but not the pace

I understand your reckoning but i don't think that either team will line up anything like as named. I don't know that Bartram is the logical tag for Deledio, maybe for around the ground but not deep in our backline. If I was wallets I would play Deledio out of the goalsqaure if Bartram lines up on him. I have a feeling that Deledio would outmark Bartram comfortably playing out of full forward.

I imagine Bowden will play his usual recieving/loose man role in order to straighten them up and improve thier skills around the ground.

Richo as usual is the man I am most worried about. From memory he carved us up last time. I think Martin may go to him, maybe Frawley. Rivers will be there to lend a hand if Richo goes deep.

I think we can win this game in close and in the clearances. Hopefully Meesen can get his hand to the ball more often than not. Believe it or not i think our forward line can stretch them as I don't rate thier backline at all. Miller and Bate may do ok.

Thats exactly what I am trying to say this is why he has put Deledio there to break the tag. And I think it is round one to us at this stage because he is out of positioning already. I understand you may think more laterally than I do about the tag for Deledio but who else is there to man up on him with the pace?

Hi again,

I just had a look at Wallets Richmond team for the weekend and note that he has stuck true to his word about skills. He has Bowden and Deledio named to play in the forward half. I think its specifically designed to get Bartram away from Deledio as this is the logical tag Melbourne should run with him all day. It gets Bartram kicking the ball out of defense. We as Melbourne supporters know that although he has great running capacity his skills struggle. Now this should be a win for us to start depending on our mids. if we can get hands on the ball before the Tigers Deledio will be made redundant in the forward line because he wont be able to use his skills to advantage.

The Bowden placement is interesting in that they need him in defense but need the skills in the forward half.

Not sure how this will work what do others think?

Green Miller Maric

Petterd Bate Martin

That way if we bomb it in long and high as per usual - we will have some chance of marking the ball.

Hi guys,

I think that sounds a fair forward line set up to take on Richmond. The most disappointing thing with Bate particularly and to a lesser extent Miller is this. When the opposition lock us down in our forward half that is dry up the scoring options and fill in the gaps for us to lead into THEY STOP MOVING. Have you ever closely monitored Bate when this occurs.As Dennis Commetti would say he " operates in a phone box" which can be applied in general terms to the parameters Bate uses. He only works about 10 meters of the forward line. When someone gets in the hole in front of him he tries to fly over the top and more often than not gives up a free kick. This cant happen against Richmond because they love to zone off and back into the holes. If you have ever watched Chris Newman closely he often gets lost on long searching leeds because one he lacks a bit of pace and two he has trouble changing direction. This was none the more evident than at Etihad on Sunday when he had to do so and tweaked his groin. Play him into the space and lead and change direction on that lead.

Moore is a different proposition he is agile and slight with good speed but something I have noticed about him is that he goes around on a wide ark. By this I mean that often he doesn't go the direct root to the ball. he is often goal side of his man like you should be, but instead of cutting the line to the ball down he goes the long way around and has to bring up the rear. He lacks a little tactical smart and his strength is to run of his man when he has the space and the time. Maybe Miller could use his strength to exploit his lack of strength one on one. We cant get locked into a run and chase contest with him because he will eat us. Lock him into the forward 50 and isolate him one on one.

Jake King in my opinion reached his peak as an AFL footballer in his break out year in 2007. At his best he is tough, tenacious and uncompromising. When pressured he leaks skill errors and costs his team on the score board through calamitous turnovers. This maybe suggests that his time at AFL is limited and his place in the side was made through hard work rather than ability.He reminds me of our own Woewodin who worked so assiduously to reach the height of the Brownlow medal, but was found wanting when his pace declined and his skills were compromised by players crushing his left side and hemming him into places where he found it hard to create the play. Run and rebound is King's game. He loves to kick the ball to space primarily because his skills errors are less glaring and that he does not have to be as precise by foot. I suspect our small forward will play on him, and the go is to push him back to the goal line and lead to the pocket or deep inside the latter 15 meters of the arc. Once he is in this position he is out of his comfort zone and more to likely mark errors. A the top of the square these are going to cost Richmond where he cant kick to space.

I hope the coach shows the forwards DVDs of Robbo on the lead. If you watch he has success against the tigers because he makes multiple lead, blocks, moves at different angles and when beaten in the air attempts to rove the marking contest. Most of all he locks the ball into the forward 50. If we can keep the ball in there it is going to make things a lot easier for Clint Bartram to do his job shutting of Deledios supply of half back and impeding his route to the ball from the back end of the square. Delidios kick range is from the back end of the centre square to centre half forward. Once he had disposed of the ball he pushes forward much like Davey does for us. He is dangerous because of his speed, and the multiple efforts he can put in through endurance. We saw on the weekend that he loathes the close tag, something he rarely had to deal with at TAC cup level because of his pace compared to the other kids. Now he can be shut down by:

(a) Running with him closely at all times pressuring his kick and forcing him into error when at the half back line.

(B) Ensuring we get him on the rebound on the opposite side of the ground as he tends to attack the members wing at the MCG.

When Deledio is beaten like he was with Picken on the weekend he spectates, that is he becomes the second to the ball, second to the contest and watched the play unfold instead of attacking it. The bulldogs identified that much of beating him as an opponent is psychological rather than ability determined. When let loose there are few who can match deledio for pace, endurance and impact on the game within a short period of time. Get inside his head to start and you have the best chance of shutting him down. Rather than sacrifice you star midfielder to psychologically impugn him, run a tagger with him and banter with him constantly chiding him psychologically until he breaks.

Just some thoughts. Some may feel its [censored], some may agree. Either way I know these are some of the starting points to beating Terry's toothless tiger sat the weekend.

The forwards you want in your side @ the moment are

FLASH

His Little brother

Nathan Krakeor

Danial Motlop

All raking up big numbers

Buddy, Pavolich & Riewaldt will all come into there own later in the season.

Fingers crossed a bloke named Watts might be some value in the back half of 09

oh I forgot to mention I have S Johnson as well as Higgins who can push into the midfield when required. The three you mentioned are spasmodic at times but brilliant when they are on. The question is really how long can they stay "on" for. In the case of flash he really has to stay red hot for us the have any drive and run out of defense because he is our link man. Krakour seems to have sublime skills and I feel his points come from the precision of his kicks. Now taking into account that he played you know who last week there must not have a great amount of pressure bought to bear on him. When this changes so to might his points. Daniel Motlop if he continues in the current vein could be the find of the season as far a small forwards go in super coach. However much like his compatriots of aboriginality in the AFL this seems to be a challenge. A dangerous forward he is, a consistent one he has not yet proven to be. Factor into this that he can be volatile and he may miss a few games through suspension. His avergae is 2 to 3 games per year.

What is going on with Buddy is that the supply is not there as yet and teams congest Hawthorns back half starving him of space. I agree that, once the hawks gain their star players back he will improve. I feel Paul Chapman is a better selection that Reiwoldt primarily because he is a goal kicking midfielder who can score points both for possessions gained din the midfield and the goals he kicks in the forward half. The great thing about Chapman is his kicking skills are almost unparalleled in terms of efficiency 80%. Only a few others, including Brian Lake 100% were better than him this week. he gained 35 touches which is unreal. Pavlich is in the same position as Riewoldt in that his coach has determined he can roam further from goals to gain higher possession and kick longer into the forward 50. However based on Freos current form he is confined to dual modalities. I even saw his in defense last week. Even so I have been waiting for him to go over the hundred mark in consecutive weeks. His last two efforts 96 and 105 tell me he may be on the rise.

You seem to miss the point

Meesen is going to score you a whole lot more points than Leunberger over the next 12 weeks.

If you where banking on Leunberger as your No. 1 Ruckman you system is flawed. He was back up @ best.

You have too many Rookies in your team @ once. Only need 2 on each line

& Trade them once you think there values has maxed out.

You wouldn't trade Rich @ present however later in the season when he tops $400000 move him on.

All the Rookies have been done & dusted hey?

Zaharakis - Bombers

Meredith - Swans

Suban & Broughton - Dockers

Cheney - Demons

Petrenko - Crows

Just to name a few are all scoring OK currently & will rise in value over next couple of months

Keep looking DD you have barely scratched the surface.

Okay OMR thanks for the tips I shall look into it further. You seem to have a good handle on this. I would love to sit with a group of mates during the off season and really nut this out. I have a air education in statistics and I feel you cant really pick a good team without the input of statistics. Anyhow all the best

Trade him for Bennell & bank the cash for later in the season.

I have a strong feeling Bennell is about to score some high numbers, he seems to be such a smooth mover

& has plenty of time. 6 games under his belt & he will be a star.

Assume you have Daniel Rich / Hayden Skipworth & Shaun Higgins

Smokey - : No. 7 for Swans think his name is Merideth - Looks the goods.

Yes I have all three of the above. I am a passionate Demons supporter and I had Brocky in there to start but he sucked in the first three games so I took him out. I have Judd, Thompson, Rich, Griffen MItchell. That is a pretty full midfield but they just dont seem to score consistently. I have a lot of big stars in my team which on paper through law of averages should be around the 2,200 mark each way. Considering over 22 players each week the standard deviation is around 6-8 it myfs me as to why I struggle to crack. 20000.

I feel in the case of specialist forwards a goal should count fora lot more than 8 points. Take Fevola for example he might only tough it 6 times a game.

im assuming you allready have ablett

No I have Bartel, Gibbs, Rich Deledio Selwood Beams

Help please!!!!

Hi fellow posters,

At this stage of the season I am looking to trade Brett Deledio for another high possesion midlefilder. Firstly I am after peoples opinions on if

(a) They would trade Deledio

(B) If so which of the following players would you trade him for

1 Chris Judd

2 Nick Dal Santo

3 Leigh Montagna

Opinions please

You need to take a punt on a couple of Rookies in each position

Once there value increases Trade them out for more rookies & bank the coin

you will need the extra bucks for the business end of the season.

Daniel Rich has risen $97000 already. The kid is a gun & Will be worth another $100,000 in three weeks.

Get Davey into your team now while he is flying & when the time arrives get ready to draft

Strauss, Bleese, Jurrah & Watts.

Trade Leunberger for Meesen & be patient, its a long season.

Good Luck

But Messen is not going to score you points at the moment and based on his current form will not at all even though he was not out worst on Sunday. With regard to Daniel Rich the kid has a lowest score of 80 for the three rounds, and until the opposition workout a strategy to shut him down will run without a tag. This is much the same as Palmer did for the majority of last year. Why would you trade Rich for another rookie, they have al been done and dusted . I have the following Rookies in my team ATM:

Hurley

Rich

Hill

Beams

Robinson

Yarran

Zieball

Vickery

Roughead

Rance

The majority of have major potential so who do I trade them for?

with regard to player values, it adds on to the salary cap. You can then use the money to upgrade to other players. For example you initially buy Kyle Cheney for $94,200; he is now worth $161,000. You can trade on Cheney's current price, so you in effect have an extra $66,800 when you sell him.

does this make sense? (it sounded good as I typed it)

So I have Luenberger who has done SFA and I have to trade him because of his injury. So if I wanted to get say Kruzer it would cost me more money.

Hi all,

I need the input of experienced super coach participants of the past on an issue. I looked at my team today and viewed a number of players who had risen in value. I wonder does this accumulated value become an addition to your overall salary cap, or does it just stay dormant until the competition finishes. If it does stay dormant I would suggest it is like that pesky super for process workers and hospitality devotees you know the money is there but you just cant get at it. What is the point of giving players higher values if you cant use them. I have a second question.

I have looked at the rankings over the weekend and considered the following two players. Yze magic You will love this!!!!

Cameron Bruce and Cale Morton both identical on every other facet of the possession tally except the clangers and goals.

Cale had 6 and Cameron had two. Now by the super coach guide a clanger is worth -8 points.

Cameron kicked 2 goals and Cale kicked one goals are also worth +8

How then does Bruce score in excess of one hundred points and Cale in the 60's

D EFF% K H G B CM UM T CL C SC SCA

28 79 13 15 1 0 0 9 0 3 4 66

29 83 13 16 2 1 0 8 3 1 1 113 105

Top scores are Cale bottom line is Cameron

Hi fellow posters,

I opened the Big Paper and scrolling through to the sports pages I noted the article with Lindsay Gilbee clenching a high tech pill between his teeth. In our fast paced world of economic and financial hardship its interesting to note that these expensive technological advances are being used by some supposed " Blue Collar Battlers". These are the clubs who are formally pledging their financial woe to the aFL for funding and handouts to make ends meet. Needless to say that Vlad and his crew of merry followers have commissioned new playing facilities for the bulldogs players. I do ask are we the most inauspicious club in the AFL?. I recently had the infuriating experience of sitting with a group of bulldogs supporters at an AFL match. Cameron Bruce led for the ball on members wing and a bulldogs supporter barked " Go on up to Queensland where you belong" encased within a tirade of other expletives we dont need to indulge. In all seriousness I saw a lady sitting on a picnic blanket not five meters from me and considered vaulting her from it and pointing out that it was a mere ten years ago that the bulldogs were grappling for their own financial existence. They traipsed the flanks of the whiten oval trawling the grass for extra dollars and asking people like beggars for even 20 cents. They highlighted the ineptness of their own club by fielding commercials with Doug Hawkins single handedly slaughtering phonetic eticut and with it the english language as we know it. Now in the penultimate year of a new decade we are lead to believe by the bulldogs supporters that they are on the brink of financial obscurity, but somehow they can find the cash to buy these pills which cost $ 55 dollars each.

What is going on in the ranks of the AFL I ask you?

:angry:

Have fans turn up to games irrespective of weather we are getting a pancing, or runaway winners by ten goals would be a sound starting point.If supporters, member of the club or otherwise are serious about its survival support in any capacity is vital. I understand it is not possible for some, through respective monetary restrictions to donate, however the most crucial donation to this great club is made through the agency of something everything has a glutious maximus ( Bum). This easy donation can be made by placing your rear end on a seat at all games in Melbourne or even interstate in 2009.The time has come to refrain from reflective thinking rootted in the glory days of the 80' when we were a super power and begin to create a culture in the new millenium, once which is lasting, is poweferfull and puncutates the symbolism of a club with such a rich history.

Thankyou for the honest assesment I appreciate this feedback. I agree we are all supporting the one great club and support as opposed to bickering is what is needed at the moment.

No these are just my observations from afar.

I left in in there to see if you had the intelligance to keep reading to the latter sector of the post, or if you would do as I suspect you have done read it once, look for errors and then read it again. You do not have the interlect to read for a prolonged period without nodding of to sleep you bufoon.Well done on the spelling mistake idiot you took the bait.Get a life you absolute illigitimate, intellectully primitive fool.

I agree good call

Oh dear I am sorry for that slight spelling error I overlooked the part of the membership form for joining demonland where it said "members will sit, eyes gleaned on their computer screens looking for gramatical and spelling errors in others posts". Surely the sentiment may have left an impact upon you and that alone may have suggested that, although there was a spelling mistake in the post I do have the utmost respect for this young man. Although it is not mandatory on this sight, I feel it important that I respond to your ill informed and blatently scurouless critque of my grammer. For your information I have been spending my time recently awake all night preparing a research proposal for a paper I am writing, aimed at at ending the vilification of sexually abused children in our commuity and helping their psycholgical health. I feel this is a great cause, however unfortunatly as stimulating as this is I feel the marking of gramatical errors on a sight like this can only ever equate to being afutile and plainly boaring past time.I hope that your life is evrerything you thought it may be, are you a little boared,or even a little bit lonley for I pitty you. While others make their money and devote their time into other more satifying ventues in our community, your vanity drives you to undermine the rights of others on this sight and sidetrack what I though was a post with great merit. Posters have a right to hear what is happening with this young man who is the future of our club without your slanderous imput.If you have noticed the grammer correction thing is not a new concept. People used to do it all the time, however other posters found it to be getting a little long winded. Soon you too will earmark yourself for this basket. I truley hope their is a way out for you from you obviously boaring and understimulating life.

Please refrain from posting comments on spelling ans grammer again please.