DangerousDemon

Next question then.....

After one of the Filth does snipe Jack which of our lot flies the flag?

Beamer

Its due to match ups mate.

Martin is stiff but it was either him or warnock considering the collingwood forward line.

I agree if you think it has anything to do with potential or current form you know nothing at all about football. Thank god someone has finally spoken some sense of this topic. Thankyou

Talk about over hyping. I'm looking forward to Harry O'Brian knocking him out 2 minutes in.

Oh yeah that would be great mate nice suggestion how intellectual of you

Hi people,

Three weeks ago I attempted to get a reserved seat for the Essendon game only to be told " This is an Essendon fully ticketed game". I have been told this continually over the last three years. Basically I was informed that when the tickets go on sale Essendon AFL members are offered them first cap off the rank. I was offered seats on level three but I said you cans stick that it is painfull enough having to watch Essendon anyhow. Couple this with the fact it is an Etihad and we Melbourne members cant get a seat close to the ground.

Please explain AFL.

I know we're all very excited about our up and coming list, however I think a real problem with our list atm is we simply have too many ordinary and average players on it. Sure this gives us great depth. It means we have about 10 players in vfl who are just as good, or a touch worse than those playing at afl level... but does that leave us with a real shot a getting to the top 4?

Category A: Players who are stars and would be top line players in any team in the afl.

- Davey

Category B: Players who are very good and you would be happy to be in the team for a push to the top 4

- Warnock, Frawley, Garland, Rivers, Moloney, Bruce, Green, Mclean, Sylvia, Morton

Players we are relying on to become Category A or B over the next 24 months- in reality we know that not all of these guyz will become top line players... just like we've seen with Dunn, Pettard etc who showed some initial promise, some of these guyz are destined for mediocrity.

- Grimes, Watts, Strauss, Blease, Wonaeamirri, Maric, Cheney, Bennel, Martin

PLAYER WHO ARE ONLY EVER GOING TO BE AVERAGE PLAYERS

- Miller, Pettard, Jones, Bartram, Dunn, Buckley, P.Johnson, Jamar, Newton, Bell, Meesan, Valenti

Playeres who are either too old to be considered part of our next push for top 4, or are so speculative there is no point speculating atm.

- Bail, Jetta, McNamara, Jurrah, Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald, Whelan

Analysis

- we have only 11 players who are category A and B- Almost all of those 11 are category B, who we are satisfied with as our starting 18 players, but by no means thrilled about...

- we have 9 players who are in their first 2 seasons who we are relying on to become good players. History shows us that only 5-6 will make the grade.

- we have a mammoth 12 players (16 players if you count Wheatley, Robbo, McDonald and Whelan, who will retire soon) who are mediocre player.

- If you look at some of the category B names, there are a few names there that don't make you jump up and down

Is our team destined for mediocrity unless a few of our draft picks (Martin, Watts, Morton, Grimes, Scully etc) turn into stars?

If that is the case, are we putting too much of our faith in 19yr olds who history shows us, will not all make it?

Bit harsh on Jurrah mate he might play this weekend and turn it on and you will be raving " oh how bout that Jurrah what a star". You have pinpointed players here who have not been given enough time to prove themselves.

I have a feeling that Newton's passport has already been stamped with the exit visa and no further entries.

Newton get a real crack how much longer did you want to keep him in there without a result. The crows game was the last straw for me sorry stamp that passport of to the Gold Coast.

IN: Robertson, Cheney, Newton

OUT: Miller, Whelan, PJ

edited (Mon 1/6/09 - 1pm).

Sorry mate need to ruckman against the scum and PJ is one of those cant leave him out we will get murdered with just Jamar in. Also who would you suppose we kick the ball to if Miller is out?

You should know by now NEVER to digest anything from Foxtel commentary. They are down right just terrible.

However, I did hear one D.Russell saying, "1st is playing last, but you would never know it, judging by the way the demons are playing".

Ill give him a point for that at least.

Yeah but he also said at one stage " Ray runs toward the 50, in pursuit is Jones, Ray looks behind to see who it is and kicks the goal and embarrasses him. Sorry guys could you please explain WHAT IS THAT ?

anyone else see street talk? They ran into Clints girlfriend! wow!!

first miller, now bartram... the demon boys do well for themselves!!

also on a side note.. how good is richo v hutchy.. would love to see backstage footage of that!!

Incase you had not noticed mate at least 300,000 of us in the Melbourne Metro Area watch the show every week and have done since its inception. Therefore the chances are pretty good that we did se it, but thanks for letting us know anyway. If there are any more pearls of wisdom that you wish to send our please feel free to fire away. You could even make it about football to be really daring.

Got to say, I love the way Bailey goes about answering questions directed by the media. He seems excellent in the handling of some players, in particular the 'kid' in Sylvia. Psychologically speaking, I think he's going about the development the right way and if it comes off, we'll see some mature quicker than we'd expect, which goes well for the team with respect to the game plan and being mentally strong.

Yes I agree as well he refuses to be cornered by them and I love when he gets that little rye grin on his face. He does well to disguise his emotions but that grin for me speaks the real message. Like I said to people on this site when people took over I know CC well and those two have a very strong plan which included the entire football department. We are now starting to see it put into action.

Here is a primary shift in mentality at our club and the reason why we are making strides toward becoming a more consistant club on the field. Below are extracts from an interview with Dean Bailey posted on the club site today. Note he makes mention of players put under the microscope consistantly on this site and demonology for suspect performance. Note his response is the reason why players are in and out of the side on a weekly basis. It is also the reason why a fit SImon Buckly has not been rushed back into the senior side.

On selection, Bailey said it is now becoming a difficult process for the match committee, as individuals are making progress. Last week, the Demons dropped Kyle Cheney, Clint Bartram, Lynden Dunn and Shane Valenti, but Bailey said it wasn't all due to poor form.

Bailey said the quartet were doing things they might have been able to get away with last year, but expectations had lifted this year. "This year we're trying to raise that standard and there is pressure there for spots," Bailey said.

WE ARE NO LONGER EXCEPTING MEDIOCRITY AT OUR FOOTBALL CLUB PEOPLE.

Now his thoughts on Colin Sylvia:

Colin played well, but we're about trying to be consistent … we'd like an even contribution across the board," Bailey said.

I particulary liked the fact that, when asked about Sylvia in his press conference his expression did not change he just said " Oh yeah Col played well, he works hard Col". That typifies a new mentaility amongst our foootball depeartment which does not reward one off brilliant performances but rather continual stong performances week in week out. He has not given Colin false assurances or undue anadulation for the past performances where he went missing. By this reaction I believe Bailey has set the bar high and encouraged Sylvia to better himself. Had he responded with " Yeah he was good wasnt he" or " Jee im glad we have him in our side" like Clarkson does over at Hawthorn Sylvia would have thought " Jee im back in favor here" I have worked hard lets take the foot of the gas again until the next contract comes around. Be rest assured that he is by no means " in favor" with the coach. He gets his fair roasting at training and at breaks in games when he stuffs up. But he now knows what is required to bridge the gap between TAC cup football and elite level AFL football.

Hi Demonlanders,

Noticed posters comments about Petterd role in the team and without conspiring to highjack that thred with my insight I choise to create an alternate. I know the moderator will most lilkly merge it but hey what the hell. Petterd's role at the moment in to be an option in a forward ine bereft of potency and marking options. In light of Miller's poor return last night he exists as an alternate avenue to goal from Bate and Miller who are supposedly talls. The problem being we kick the ball to high to him and the opposition pick of the kick every time. His mobility suggests that he should be a lead up forward moving in and around the 50 meter arc however such is the tranportation of the football from our back half, that he gets swamped with oppostion dependers dropping back .Dean Bailey again raised the issue of ball movement in his press conference and Petterd' s ifluence on the game is really contigant on the speed at which we get the ball into our attacking 50 meter arc.At his best he can be a two to three goal a game forward however I feel he remains in the side plainly because Aussie remains on the long term injury list. Petterd was drafted as a defender however due to our recent researgance of this personel is required in the forward half. He retains his spot also because of his pressure on the oppostion defenders in our forward half a task that with the conglomerate of bounding listless tallswe have in the forward half at the moment is only to valuable to have .Roberston was so intent on vigourous celerbration when he kicked a goal, or party antics in order to trya nd kick a goal that he lacked the second effort required to do so.

What would you rather a guy who puts on pressure and has a go or a guy who puts pressureon a concerned because he carries on like a tool.

I thought they figured us out a bit. really clamped down on davey morton and moloney. i think davey just might not have the tank to consistently play on the ball. Looked completely stuffed at times! But still thought he chased well, but we have to realise he cant chase that quick all the time!!

Thank you Peter that was exactly what i said they put hard tags on Morton and Davey

I don't know how many were at the game, but whoever was on Davey, and it varied a bit, had a clear run on the turnover so many time I nearly popped a [censored]. He got caught ball watching sooo many times in the square when his man was running to the open wing. Did anybody else watch this game with me? Needs a good boot up the backside this weekend.

It was Cameron Stokes on him in a defense role and what was actually happening was Hawthorn ran tight tags on Morton and Davey in our defensive half. This was to stop them getting the ball as link men at the point kick in and driving the ball into the centre corridor. Our game plan is to use the centre corridor and run the ball into our forwards quickly. However because hawthorn had huge numbers of players in the corridor at all times we were forced wide. Davey did not start the game as a forward and it is not his role to impart defensive pressure I believe thats is Petterd's role. Im not sure how you expect him to put on defensive pressure with a guy up him bum all the time. I understand we turned it over but what is he meant to do be reactive enough to anticipate the turnover and then bust his bum to chance stokes down when we make a howling error.

Bate - not enough impact

Bennell - taught a lesson

Bruce - a steady game

Davey - seemed greatly underused

Frawley - steadied after horrors

Green - reliable and steady

Grimes - seemed completely lost

Johnson - continues to impress

Jones - needs a rest

Maric - excellent first half

Martin - must be settled

McDonald - doesn't hurt opponents

McLean - lacks effective disposal

Miller - unfortunately no alternative

Moloney - unusually quiet game

Morton - disposal was amateurish

Petterd - can't justify retention

Rivers - quiet but effective

Robertson - selfish and undisciplined

Sylvia - career best performance

Warnock - stuck at task

Whelan - lost in mire

Your assessment of Robertson is 100% correct a selfish game indeed.

What a stupid idea.

McLean is better than Jones who manages to run into a opponent at every opportunity even when he is clear I sometimes wonder if he hunts them.

McLean in a good side becomes a much better player, So often I see him chase 3 different players in a row for 100 odd meters when other give up, McLean will become our Mitchell who also was "too slow" a few years ago when the Hawks were [censored].

ahhh at last some common sense and basic football knowledge from someone who obviously watches the game closely thanks for that.

Who did/do you enjoy watching play footy over your time as a Demon supporter?

Here's my top 5 up to now:

1. Robert Flower (A freak)

2. Gary Hardeman (Tough,fair,consistent Big V player.Would have been a star in any team)

3. David Neitz (Nothing better than watching Neita leading out from the square ,taking another great mark and converting.)

4. Todd Viney ( Skills nothing flash , however one of the hardest ,most courageous in an under ball winners to wear the MFC jumper).

5. Aaron Davey ( Exciting player , capable of anything )

1. Cuthbertson

2.Prympkie

3. Chisholm

4.Carroll

5.Kowell

I know this topic has been talked about on many threads. However, I think its time to remind all of what Carlton did in 2007 and how they have benefited.

The years before:

2005 - Wooden Spoon

2006 - Wooden Spoon

2007

Premiers - NAB Cup

After round 11 Carlton had a record of 4 wins - 7 losses after back to back wins over the Western Bulldogs and Port Adelaide.

Round 16 v Brisbane Lions: Carlton loss by 117 points, Pagan Sacked. Ratten replaces as tempory coach.

Round 22 v Melbourne: A pathetic Melbourne wins its 5th game by beating Carlton by 31 points, in so losing its priority pick. Melbourne end the season with pick 4 (Cale Morton).

Ratten coaches out the season without a win, losing the last 6 games with an average losing margin of 30 points.

Despite coaching to 0-6, the Blues can't get enough of their new coach and on the 20th August 2007 sign Ratten to a two year contact (very suspect).

Carlton receive pick 1 and 2 in the draft after winning 4 games. Melbourne receives pick 4 after winning 5 games the 5th being Carlton in round 22. Carlton takes Cruzer with pick 1, and use pick 2 in part of a trade for Chris Judd. End result is Carlton pick up the undisputed best player in the competition and the best school aged player in the country.

Melbourne must learn from Carton of 07. With compromised drafts for 5 years this is Melbourne’s chance to take the best two young players in the country, stop other teams getting these players, add to the list with number one pick in PSD and complete phase 2 (list build) of the grand plan.

The advantage is further multiplied by the fact that there is next to no chance of other teams outside of the new clubs being able to replenish their lists over coming 5 years. Most current top eight clubs will be well past it by 2013/14. (Carlton and perhaps Hawthorn being the exceptions).

Conclusion: The MFC has a once in a life time opportunity. Adding pick 1 & 2 plus say 19 or 20th pick to an already impressive young list will give us the best chance of breaking our the premiership drought.

Now I am not suggesting to anyone that we should go out and try and lose games. We have a great young list and even the mandatory 3 delistings at the end of the season will be difficult let along the likely 6. Young players with potential will have to be cut. Best we give them all a run and make sure we are delisting the right players. We have a great opportunity to play all ready young players, try them in new positions and really give everyone on our list the chance to show us they have the potential to be a premiership player.

Life is too short, the precedent has been set. The draft rules must be changed but while they are what they are we must take advantage of them. Some may look down on this, but Premierships don't just happen. Hawthorn played out 2004 trying out their entire list and they were rewarded with Roughead, Franklin and a premiership. Carlton played out 2007 trying their entire list and they were rewarded with Judd, Cruzer and a soon to be opened premiership window. Melbourne must do the same if it too is to be rewarded. A Grand New Flag would confirm the saving of our great club. Lets not cheat lets just be smart.

Exactly right mate well said however there will be skeptics and pessimists (see above) who would argue that it indeed harms the image of our club by stooping to Carlton's level. However if everyone over the past 10 years had done it why should the mighty Demons not.

No way will Bartram be dropped. Bailey has said he loves the way he goes about things and his game is not determined on posessions he gets. He has a spot as long as he plays his role so EVERYONE start looking for someone elses head to put on the chopping block.

Ahh thank you for that at least someone else knows something about the game plan and personnel we have.

Yes he is in our best 22 players because every team needs a tagger in their side. If he had played on Judd on the weekend and Judd had got the same possessions as Cooney did you would have said " Oh he did an okay job". He panics when he is under pressure and is at the bottom of the super coach points because he is not supposed to get the ball. I understand the quotes about Ling and others who are taggers but Geelong have the propensity to use Ling in that role because they have artillery of talent to let him loose on occasion and he he the body to be an inside midfielder when needed to get his own possessions. The general operation of the game plan is to not have Bartram put in situations where he has the ball backward of the centre square because he does cough it up on occasion thus you see the terrible turn overs because he doesn't know what to do. He like al players has been scoped a lot with other clubs doing their homework on how they can best use his tag on their position guns to make it into a win for their club. The answer to this is get him into positions where he has to kick the ball, make him accountable take him back to the goal line and make him kick out of defense. Cooney had a few yards of pace on barty at the weekend and the dogs exploited that, run and carried and put the ball in Cooneys hands to enable him to break the lines and run destructively. This is also achieved with great blocking of the ball, which the dogs also did beautifully to cut Barty out of the contest.

I dont think it is Clint who is being beaten week in week out I think it is poor tactics which continually have him kicking out from full back and to point kick ins. If we are the drop him for Bell I think the problem is only going to be magnified even more for Bell has endurance which is great, but its not endurance we need this week its hard nosed aggression and determination to win at all costs which he doesn't have. I would much prefer Bartram to Bell plainly on desire alone. Everyone used to say the same about Godfrey but Godfrey had a role to play to and that was to negate the oppositions best on baller a role I think he did very well when we were successful and had the midfield to be able to help him out a little. I can recall walking out of the ground when we had won against the top sides and people saying to me " How bout Godfrey's job on such and such. The thing was he has the artillery to back him up, to cover for him and to give him a rest when he got burned. In our side atm we have two maybe three midfielders who try manfully each week but they are not stars and we dont have the rotations there to be able to nulify these champion players of a Cooney, a Judd, a Kerr or an Ablett. When we played Geelong they had five guys running through the centre square, each of them bouncing of each other blocking for each other and making it tough for Barty.

Give the guy a break and how bout target some of our other senior players. In fact I might send Yze magic a message and get him back on the bruce bandwagon.... accountability and disposal hey well I never.

While I am a big wrap for Barty's courage on the field and obviously wish him all the best with what his family is going through his form this year has hardly been sensational. He beat Brent Harvey in round but really I think Brent Harvey was having a shocking year before he got injured really only dominated one game before his injury (I cannot remember who. Anyone?). Then at the weekend he spent a fair bit of time on Cooney, who is a match winner but is making his way back from injury and an interrupted pre season and I don't think Bartram blanketed him really at all. And when he has the ball he panics and his kicking is horrific. He coughed it up twice really badly on Saturday. He really needs to be put on Mitchell or Sewell this weekend and see what he can do as these players are matchwinners and in form. If he fails he needs to go back to the reserves.

I personally think Daniel Bell should be brought in for this game and put on Mitchell or Sewell with a view to earmarking him for this defensive midfield role. (Sorry to steal another poster's view in another thread) He has obviously played well in the VFL at the weekend and I think he is a better option than Bartram at the moment.

Bartram has never really got back to his 2006 form before he was injured. Have a look at the supercoach points from the weekend. Bartram is down the bottom of our team's individual point totals.

There is no room for Bell down back anymore and I am fine with this. The dees core backline group of Garland, Warnock, Rivers, Martin, Frawley, Bennell, Whelan, Cheyney is exciting and needs to play together as much as possible.

Bell when he was drafted was regarded as having a beautiful kick and I hope he can get back to this been a strength at AFL level.

What do others think of Bartram's 2008 form?

Is he in our best 22?

Yes he is in our best 22 players because every team needs a tagger in their side. If he had played on Judd on the weekend and Judd had got the same possessions as Cooney did you would have said " Oh he did an okay job". He panics when he is under pressure and is at the bottom of the super coach points because he is not supposed to get the ball. I understand the quotes about Ling and others who are taggers but Geelong have the propensity to use Ling in that role because they have artillery of talent to let him loose on occasion and he he the body to be an inside midfielder when needed to get his own possessions. The general operation of the game plan is to not have Bartram put in situations where he has the ball backward of the centre square because he does cough it up on occasion thus you see the terrible turn overs because he doesn't know what to do. He like al players has been scoped a lot with other clubs doing their homework on how they can best use his tag on their position guns to make it into a win for their club. The answer to this is get him into positions where he has to kick the ball, make him accountable take him back to the goal line and make him kick out of defense. Cooney had a few yards of pace on barty at the weekend and the dogs exploited that, run and carried and put the ball in Cooneys hands to enable him to break the lines and run destructively. This is also achieved with great blocking of the ball, which the dogs also did beautifully to cut Barty out of the contest.

I dont think it is Clint who is being beaten week in week out I think it is poor tactics which continually have him kicking out from full back and to point kick ins. If we are the drop him for Bell I think the problem is only going to be magnified even more for Bell has endurance which is great, but its not endurance we need this week its hard nosed aggression and determination to win at all costs which he doesn't have. I would much prefer Bartram to Bell plainly on desire alone. Everyone used to say the same about Godfrey but Godfrey had a role to play to and that was to negate the oppositions best on baller a role I think he did very well when we were successful and had the midfield to be able to help him out a little. I can recall walking out of the ground when we had won against the top sides and people saying to me " How bout Godfrey's job on such and such. The thing was he has the artillery to back him up, to cover for him and to give him a rest when he got burned. In our side atm we have two maybe three midfielders who try manfully each week but they are not stars and we dont have the rotations there to be able to nulify these champion players of a Cooney, a Judd, a Kerr or an Ablett. When we played Geelong they had five guys running through the centre square, each of them bouncing of each other blocking for each other and making it tough for Barty.

Give the guy a break and how bout target some of our other senior players. In fact I might send Yze magic a message and get him back on the bruce bandwagon.... accountability and disposal hey well I never.

I am surprised to be doing this but I for one will not be attending next week.

Another Sunday twilight job. And it's live on Foxtel. At least this is not our home game - if it were I would go - so my attending can only help Horforn

Twilight Sunday is the worst scheduling option especially at the G in winter.

Lame effort by our supporters against the Dogs, however, and maybe the live Foxtel coverage hurt there as well. The MCC was expecting 30,000. I thought, given how the Dogs are going, and our blokes improving that we would see 35,000.

Sorry I am not sure why you would encourage people to boycott any game the club is involed in when you know the fiscall sitaution we are in. Irrepective of the time slot or the opposition we all need to support the club and help to remedy its finincial crisis. The surge in memberships after the debt demolition dinner does not suffice for the problem being erradicated. Sure it went some way to adding to bringing as back toward an even keel, however the real impact will be when fans turn up week in week out. It may help Hawthorn, but the more red and blue fans who get to the game the more will go the following week due to a consensus effect. There were viably more melbourne supporters there against the bulldogs and I must congratulate initiatives like the one which gather outside gate 4 at home games. More and more people should be going to games and not whining about the time slot, or the day on which the game is played. Please remember that for two years we played crap football, which in turn attracted crap crowds and poor television ratings. I cant say if I was an opposition supporter I would want to go home on Friday night and watch Melbourne and Geelong in prime time either. However whilst the club continues to improve we may see more and more prime time games. We needed to be there in force on Saturday to show why we whould be in that Saturday afternoon time slot. However when the game looked lost halfway through the final quarter people got up and started walking out NOT GOOD ENOUGH PEOPLE this happens time and time again and it is a poor mentality amongst our supporter base.

Until we start to really win games tighten your lips and just keep turning up to the football the improvment is there. If you think we are going to win the flag this year or next and go to the football thinking we will beat the likes of Geelong or St Kilda take your kids to play tennis or some other poofy sport because real football clubs are not built around supporter mediocrity and lack of faith thery are built on resiliance faith in the team, pride at wearing the teams colours through think and thin. If you cant do that then go and play golf or do something else with your time.

I thought they cost us the game today.

I think we underestimate the importance of this facet of the game.

I think we need to use some creative thinking on this point. This year's the ideal opportunity to try some innovations. Sides with a chance of making the finals don't have this luxury.

20m. kicks to the back pocket are not innovative.....or effective(but better than Rivo's short pass to an opponent 25m. out, straight in front.)

Am I insanely obsessed with this failing in our tactics?

Bartram should never kick in from full back and why we continually let him have the ball in tense situations is beyond me.

Please oh PLEASE don't be injured Beamer!!!

He is injured mate he clearly grabbed at his hamstring and grimaced . And just for good measure if you think Brock Mclean is injury free then think again. His ankle has never been right since his injury. He is slower than he was and I can understand the comment about his match fitness but he is clearly impeded. However we shall wait and see if "The club says he will miss". Again if you think what the club says is gospel then you are just incorrect because every player plays with niggles, bruises and bumps every week. He may come up for next week but play sore and the question will be then is it going to do him more damage than good.

Hi,

Noticed Molony grab his lower leg/hamstring late in the last quarter. He tried to run it out by sprinting toward the forward flank ( not smart). He was in obvious pan after that and he wont play next week. So I ask what to do now?

Do I need my eyes tested? why would I make that up?

To reiterate Brent Molony has injured his hamstring and wont play next week