CHF

6 hours ago, Demonstone said:

Jordon played against Geelong and did nothing.  Spargo was the sub for that game (and did nothing).

In the last four games we have got exactly one goal out of Spargo and zero goals,out of Chandler. Not an acceptable return for a couple of small forwards. 
 

Jordon can at least give us some time in the middle. 

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

so one of Tomo/Brown plus Laurie and bowie in for who?

Brown in for Smith

Bowey in for Hibberd

Laurie in for Chandler

Jordon in for Spargo

and

Melksham in as sub

I do hope that we get back to basics at the selection table this week.

My team for the Alice match below.

B:     Bowey         May         Lever

HB:   Salem         Petty/Tomlinson        McVee

C:     Langdon     Viney       Hunter

HF:   ANB            Petty/Brown    Pickett

F:      Fritsch      Van Rooyen        Grundy

R:      Gawn      Petracca       Sparrow

Int:    Rivers       Laurie      Jordon     Brayshaw

Sub:  Melksham

That performance was a major disappointment.

e hear all the time that the team has the ability to reset during the game and work hard to get the basics right. We were not able to do that properly on Thursday night. Coaching failure? I just don't know.

What I do know is that we need the selectors to reset and get back to basics. In defence we know what works. we have a good structure to the game plan back there and we have to players to execute. For the last two weeks we had a good team within a team back there and then they drop Tomlinson and bring in Petty back there who has not played for 5 weeks. When they selected him I thought that they would play him forward and, on a wet night rely on a smaller defence to clean up the ground balls. I was wrong.

Midfield still lacks rotations and run. As far as I am concerned we need to have 12 mids in the 22 including a ruck, 2 wings and 9 rotations of mids. We do not have that. we have 2 genuine rucks and a whole bunch of small forwards that, either cannot play midfield or are not used there.

Bloody Hell! Don't get me started on the forward 50 steaming mess. I got potted by on here some weeks ago for saying that our forward line was a shambles that needed to be fixed. Nah, says a bunch of people.... we have the most points scored in the competition.... Now it is more of a mess than it was.

Back to basics.... Two talls, a medium, an inbetweener (one that can play either medium or small) and a couple of smalls.

Is that too much to ask?

We improved that quarter and upped the pressure. I expect us to step up a bit more this next quarter. 

We will have to if we are to overcome the rubbish umpire's decisions.

This quarter is ours.

Good time Charlie as the sub is what I expected.

Could be some interesting moves made by Goodwin this evening and it will, of course depend on the circumstances of the game. 

Petty could play forward or back and will be effective at both ends of the ground as required. 

Something from left field I would like to see is Smith given a center bounce as an attending mid. might be something that would throw the cats. 

Good morning DemonWorld........and what a fine morning it it’s in my part of the world....

woke up this morning (always a good way to start the day given my age), have showered, shaved and done the other thing. Had a healthy breakfast and just now sipping coffee and savouring the prospect of a great win in the offing.

We will declaw the cats in t’the third after spending the first quarter seeing what they bring to the table and then upping our pressure to take the game away from them and leave their season in a smouldering heap of ashes.

so, as you see, I am feeling confident.

Damn! It’s good to be alive and a Demon supporter.

Dees to win.

Interesting selection and it looks like the coaching team are going to be working to a bit of a different Plan A with a different Plan B as well.

Bringing Petty back for this game will keep the Cats guessing exactly how we might use him. It is going to be a wet one from all BOM reports so I do not mind a smaller back 6 with Tomlinson being dropped. It is not ideal after his great performance last week but it looks to be a horses for courses selection and I would expect him to come in to balance the defence when required. He may even be a late in if there are any key positions players that do not come up. 

Brown named as an Emergency a well as Spargo and Woewodin. looks like Spargo will get the nod as Sub.

Strong looking team with an interesting mix shown on the bench. I know that it is unlikely that the 18 named in the team will be the starting lineup... Petracca, Viney and Hunter at the first bounce???? ..... JVR and Petty on the bench can rotate into the forwards as required and Hibberd and Petty can rotate into defence as required. Jordon covers wing and inside mids.

Plenty of flexibility and I can see us playing a similar way to the way we played the Pies. Strong, driving drfence and smothering corridor defence giving the Cats no space inwhich to work. this will force them to kick long into their forward 50 on a wet night so that we can run it out of defence with our agile running backs.

Go Dees! a 20 point win coming up

Selections against Geelong will generate a bit of thinking from the match committee and after they have thought they will make only one change. Spargo out, Oliver in.

I can see Bowey having another week off after his concussion in his last game and the defence was very good against the Pies so why change it?

Petty might get a run at Casey if he is good to go. Interesting to see Oliver running laps of the ‘G’ after the game last week but there was no sign of Petty doing the same thing.

Long Car based post….. you have been warned….

Had a listen to the podcast last night in my present part of the world. A part of the world that is a giant, very hot sandpit. That is another story.

The podcast was great and a big thank you to Andy, George and Binman for their analysis and thoughts. A great discussion on what was a great win.

Binman went on a couple of times about V8s and Ferraris and I think I understood what he was on about. Mid-point of the season…. Evolution of the team structures and plans into something more sophisticated from our present baseline shown the game against the Pies. Mind you, we could aim for the best of both worlds and look for a V8 Ferrari.

I am a car nut. Lov’em. Had a lot of them from a Hillman MInx through Ford Cortinas, Toranas, American Muscle, Italian exotic, German tech…. British unreliable….

Binman’s comments on the poddy got me thinking about automotive equivalence in our team. No so much brands and particular cars, but more about the heart of the vehicles, the engines.

There have been some wonderful engines over the years.

DEFENCE

6 Defenders…… 6 Cylinders. There have been some great 6’s over the years and the present crop is no exception. However, we could start the discussion on 6’s back in the 50’s with Jaguar’s 3.8 straight six that was the base of the E-Type and S-Type saloons. A good strong reliable engine that evolved and was in use for decades. Strong, reliable and enduring, all good characteristics for a defence. But it an old engine that modern times has passed it by. Definitely not our present defence.

Other great 6’s? Nissan has had a string of excellent straight sixes used to power their GT-R’s great flexible engine and wonderful cars. The BMW 6 is another great engine and was evolved by their M Works into one of the very best modern engines. Both of these could qualify for our defence but there is one 6 That I think stands out above the rest.

The Porsche Flat Six. It has been around for a long time going through a lot of development and evolution and placed in a car hanging over the back axel in a unique car configuration. My personal favourite is the naturally aspirated 3.8l with a sports exhaust in the 911. Don’t get me wrong, I love the new Porsche engines but they have a lot of bits and pieces added to them these days that I do not fully understand.

So, for me our back six is a Flat Six. Reliable, strong, agile, powerful, sophisticated and well evolved.

MIDFIELD

Have to go with a V8 here. However, do we go down the track of the large displacement American V8s or do we go with the smaller displacement turbo assisted European? Hard choice.

Not the best V8 produced but one of the most significant was the Ford Flathead, the first V8 produced for use in mass production. That was 1932 and with 65hp was the fore runner of all the rest to follow. Not for our present midfield.

Looking at American contenders there is the Ford Boss-302 small block that was developed in 68 and used in the Mustangs and others. Over the years it was developed and evolved and was still used in 2007. A lovely versatile engine that started off simple and has developed into a more complex iteration that is still based on the simplicity of its origins.

How about the LSI that powered the Corvettes from 1997 onwards? It had innovation with an aluminium alloy block making it a lightweight V8 compared to others. Was developed over time to produce 350hp. Lightweight? Not our midfield.

The Daddy of all the US V8s has to be the 6.2l Hemi Hellcat that was in the 2015 Dodge Challenger. Over 800 horses in its latest iteration. Big, Brash and Ballsy….. a riot on Wheels. I drove one of these not so long ago and it is an experience not easily forgotten. I would like to forget it as it scared the hell out of me. So much raw power…so little control….

The Europeans have approached v8s differently to the US. Smaller capacity, turbo charges, high revving with sophisticated management systems makes for a potent combination. Mercedes has the 4l twin turbo charged AMG developed engine that is simply wonderful. Has all the attributes you would want in a midfield. Powerful, versatile, agile and responsive… yes please….. except that maybe BMW M Division has something to rival the Merc. BMW’s 4.4l  N63. I am not talking about the original version, that had a few problems with reliability. This version was used from 2009 through 2012 with some of the kinks ironed out. A completely new version was released in 2013 and it was a beauty. Still in use today and has all the attributes of the Merc engine above with over 520hp. A contender

Last and possibly best of the Europeans? The Ferrari 3.9l F154 twin Turbo…. A Ferrari V8 for Binny. It was introduced in 2013 and is used right across the Ferrari range rom the SF90 Stradale through the Portofinos and the Roma to the F8 a lovely engine with all the tributes we want in the midfield. With over 700hp and a great management system it is strong,  versatile, lovely to watch with a sound under full acceleration to rival 84,000 at the MCG. Give me a Ferrari V8 powered midfield any day of the week. We have the management systems to control the power and properly direct it.

Forwards

 I will keep this simple I am looking at 12 cylinders. Why? Well in the first half of the season we have had at least 12 players tried there.

Something cobbled together? How about the Bentley W-12? It was made up of two 6’s welded together. Lots of power, over 700hp. But they no longer produce it. It is past it, old technology and very much past its use-by date. Could describe our present forward setup. Still producing the power but in transition.

So where do we go? Most of the great 12s come from F1. Not sure we want to go there. Much to temperamental and requiring specialists to keep them running.  

I would not turn my back on the Rolls Royce 27l Merlin a 12 that was used in the Spitfire and a few specialist cars. Old fashioned but a brute of an engine that proved to be reliable and went a long way to winning a war. If we had brute power in our personnel, this is the way to go.

You have 12s being produced by Ferrari, Bugatti, Mercedes, BMW, Aston Martin and Lamborghini. And these are all wonderful engines, all seriously complex and all seriously powerful.

What I want to see in the forward setup in the grand final this season is the engine from the McLaren F1, the BMW S70. 30 years old and still one of the most innovative engine developments placed in one of the most innovative cars of all time. It is still the fastest naturally aspirated car of all time.

I want a forward structure that develops into something that is ahead of the pack… a benchmark. I do not know what it looks like but we do not have the bits for a conventional structure so we need to innovate, we need to be the McLaren F1

Now all we have to do is get these engines working together. 26 cylinders… 2000hp with strength, power, durability and agility.

I can dream can’t I?

31 minutes ago, dl4e said:

I hate the filth but for the life of me I can't see us winning. We are not playing good footy.

I can understand this. I live in hope that the challenge that the filth present will concentrate the minds of our players and will turn their collective form around.

Dees by 21points after a strong 4th quarter.

I enjoyed the game against Carlton. I always enjoy beating Carlton and have memories of having to sit through a lot a games where we were just not good enough. o, I will enjoy taking the 4 points every single time it happens.

The only problem with the game was our accuracy. In all other areas of the game, I am with Goodwin, we dominated. 

Defence looked much better with an additional tall. It just takes the pressure off May and Lever and allows them to play more expansive games. I have no problems with the game that Tomlinson played. I think he will be better for the run. He was up against one of the better forwards in the game and his game helped the defensive structure so much. If he can hold that position well it will allow Petty to come back into the team as a forward. it would also give us more flexibility with Tomlinson able to back up the ruck and Petty to swing back if required.

Mids without Oliver did very well against a solid Carlton crew. I think both Petracca and Viney have stepped up their games and I hope that they do not relax when Oliver is back next week. 

The forwards did not have a great day....... again. JVR had a good day out for 4 solid quarters but generally we lacked serviceable delivery into the forward 50 that was exacerbated by bad kicking once the ball was in the hands of the forwards. 

I don't think we should play both Chandler and Spargo in the same forward line. It is one or the other to my mind. since Spargo got back Chandler does not seem to be as effective as he was.

Team for the Pies?

Backs: Hibberd, May, McVee

HB: Lever, Tomlinson, Salem

C: Langdon, Oliver, Hunter

HF: Sparrow, Smith, Pickett

For: Fristch, JVR, Spargo

Fol: Gawn, Petracca, Viney

IC: Grundy, ANB, Brayshaw, Rivers

Emer: Jordon, Chandler, Schache, Laurie

I think we will go close to losing this match with the selections we have made. IMO we are light on for run and rotations in the midfield. 

Wonder what we will do with selection this week. In the first half of this season, except for the first few rounds, we have not had a settled effective setup with our tall forwards. While some on here and even our esteemed coach site the fact that we have scored the most points of any team so far this season, we have only played three teams presently in the top eight and lost to all of them. we have scored our points in 8 wins against teams in the bottom 10. Not a reflection of a good effective forward setup.

Some here also look at the delivery into the forward 50 as an excuse. To me it is a bit of a chicken and egg issue. Could our delivery be better? Of course it could be but it would help if we had a settled structure to the forwards and then it would give the deliverers a clear idea of what was happening ahead.

So what to do over the Wednesday night cheese platters? Where to start?

Midfield, always a good place to start, as that is where the ball starts with a bounce. Oliver is out for another week so we need to get more run and cover in the midfield. Hunter comes back but do we slot him back in straight away? Langdon looked better last week and Gus had a very good game playing back on the wing. Same set up this week?

Do we persist with Gawn and Grundy in the same team?

Petracca, Viney, Sparrow, Pickett, ANB, Rivers, Harmes and Laurie all rotating through the midfield at times. Langdon, Jordon, Brayshaw and Woewodin to the wings with the last three to have time on the ball as well.

In the defence we have a pretty good structure with May and Lever as the kingpins. I am of the opinion that Petty, when fit, returns to the back line as we look a lot better with him there beside the other two. With him injured, we may look at Tomlinson for this match and possibly the next. He did a good job at the back when required earlier in the season and I think we will need tall options against the Blues. Rivers and Salem back there and a choice of two of Hibberd, Bowey and McVee.

Forwards are a problem and have been for the last few seasons. Even in 21 we looked fragile up the pointy end during the season. 

I would keep Spargo in there and drop Chandler. Chandler has been good but he has not been as effective in the last couple of games and might need a freshen up. Fritsch is there, of course. ANB and Pickett will spend time there. The rest??? A lot of questions. Dr Seuss, in one of his books has The Cat In The Hat saying to someone "Sometimes the questions is complicated and the answer is simple." If we accept that, then the reciprocal is also true. "Sometimes the question is simple and the answer is complicated." 

Unfortunately, we suffer from the later when discussing the forward setup.

I think there a a lot of versions of an answer but no idea how effective they might be.

Anyway.... this is the way I would go for the Blues game.

Backs: Hibberd, May, Rivers

HB: Lever, Tomlinson, Salem

C: Langdon, Sparrow, Brayshaw

HF: Spargo, Grundy, Pickett

F: JVR, Brown, Fristch

Fol: Gawn, Petracca, Viney

IC: Bowey, Jordon, Harmes, Laurie, Woewodin ( One selected as sub)

McVee having a rest

Disappointing game and result.

I said in the pre-game thread that I thought we had not selected enough to fill midfield rotations and that we did not have enough run. I think we did a bad job of selection and a very bad job of ingame coaching.

We lose a wing and our best mid field driver and do not use players such as Pickett to fill roles in the midfield. One of Chandler, Spargo or ANB should have made way for Jordon in the selected team or at least made way for him as sub at half time for Chandler. That would have given us the chance to run Brayshaw through the middle while Jordon ran a wing. Pickett should have been given some time in the middle. In the first half with Viney being sat on we could have swapped Pickett and Viney to give some more drive and to try and break the tag on Viney.

The situation with out tall forwards is nothing less than a shambles.... omni or otherwise. When Petty gets back play him as the third tall in defence and settle the forward situation. Give Brown a few weeks there with JVR or Schache. Get back to the structures that stood us in good stead in 21. due to a reluctance to change things and injuries the team looks incomplete and disconnected.

Partly the fault of the players but a lot of it needs to rest at the feet of the coaches and the rest of the footy department.

Our record as Naarm is not good. We are yet to win a game. Any chance we are tanking to get a priority pick for the best indigenous talent in the next PSD? 

19 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

We lost one mid and brought in two CHF, what makes you think we will be a bit light on for midfield rotations? 

Same reason that I thought the same last week: We do not have enough run through there to cover the whole game. We did bring in another mid but have lost Hunter that spends 90%+ time on the ground and Oliver that spends 80%+ TOG.

We shall see. I hope that I am wrong.

I think we are a bit light on for midfield rotations with the team that is named even if you include a mid as the sub. We may not have the legs to run out the game and may get found out in the 4th quarter.

1 hour ago, DeeZone said:

I like your thinking CHF do you have any influence on the match committee???

Nah. If I did have any influence on those guys there would have been changes a couple of weeks ago.

1 hour ago, Dee*ceiving said:

Angus??!!

Knew I had missed someone. Have him in there instead of either Sparrow or McVee. 

1 hour ago, djr said:

"Dire situation" Really? We are the second highest scoring team in the comp. Something must be working. 

Yep. Really. I believe that it is a dire situation with our tall forward mix and has been since the first couple of rounds with the different things we have tried. Need to find a solution and work with it.

That was a good game of footy. No quarter asked and none given. Heart in mouth stuff for us Dees supporters when what-his-name had a shot to tie it up but good to get the 4 points from the game.

We came off a trip to Adelaide, a 5 day break and then a tip to Queensland for this game. I know that The Suns also had a lot of travel to deal with recently, but I was surprised at the tempo and intensity delivered by both teams.

My big take from the game is that while the coaches bang on about the way the team looks to reset during games in response to the circumstances, I do not see the same 'reset' from the match committee at selection given the dire situation of our forward line.

One of the cornerstones of our 21 Premiership was the stability and structure of our defence. We built the gameplan around this structure and it was a success. I heard that Goodwin was talking about clearances and that we base a lot of our attack on winning turnovers after possessions out of the clearances and I cannot argue with that given our results but what I would argue is that if that is the case we need to ensure that we have the best people in the best places in defence. To my mind that means rebuilding the defence around May, Lever and Petty as the talls with Salem (when fit and in form), Bowey, Rivers, Hibberd, Brayshaw and McVee as the smaller running defenders. 

Petty back is what is needed at the moment. It seems as if in his absence, there has been a little too much pressure on May to perform and it is to the detriment of his game.

Well we have to discuss the forwards and there is a lot to discuss.

Petty is not the answer to any question regarding the forwards.

JVR out for  couple of weeks.

This leaves a couple of large holes at the pointy end. What to do?

I would try Brown and Schache as the talls for the next couple of weeks with Gawn/Grundy resting there as required. Fristch as a genuine spare medium forward and have Chandler, Spargo, Pickett and ANB as crumbers/harassers at the fall of the ball.

I would have Harmes in the team to cover any tagging roles that crop up during the game. I would have loved Goodwin to pull the trigger on the sub much earlier and get Harmes into the game to tag Anderson yesterday. 

With these suggestions I am not sure what that does to the team selection.

B: Lever, May, Hibberd

HB: Bowey, Petty, Rivers

C: Langdon, Viney, Hunter

HF: ANB, Schache, Chandler

F: Fristch, Brown, Pickett

Fol: Grundy, Petracca, Oliver

I: Gawn, McVee, Sparrow, Harmes/ Jordon (one of these two as sub)

A lot of flexibility and options in that team and all playing primary position to their strengths.

Petty in Schache out.

No real idea on selection this week. Defence and Midfield pretty much as is except that we may bring Petty back in place of Hibberd if there is any doubt on his fitness. I did notice he was icing his achilles when he was subbed at the end of the game last week. It may have been just a precaution but if there is any doubt he should get a rest. 

That, to my mind, is the only contentious issue in the back two thirds of the team.

The forward 50 is where the selection gets interesting. Looking at the first 7 rounds we just do not have any tall forwards that are fit and in form. I find it amazing that we can score enough points to win games let alone being one of the top scoring teams in the comp. This season we have a few more avenues to goal and improved accuracy but we do need to find a couple of talls that can add to the scoring in a meaningful way.

Fristch is there along with the Buzz Brigade of Kossie, Chandler, ANB and Spargo. all good and effective in front of goals and also with effective controlled inside 50s. 

Talls for this week for me would be JVR and Schache with Max putting in guest appearances as we see fit. I would like this even more if Petty was in the side in place of Hibberd as he could swing forward if Schache or JVR was not effective.

Any tall forward that has a good one at Casey will get a run the next week.

I would like to thank all for their training reports tonight. It is really great for all of us that cannot get along.