old55

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not saying Hale is "a 2nd rate ruckman" - I'll leave that up to the FD to judge. I am saying that if we like him then he must be good enough to pay a decent price for. There's two prices - waht we pay North for the trade and what we pay Hale. There's usually a balance between the 2 - if we take on the whole big contract the trade prices is less, if North pay part the trade price is higher. The key point is - we want flag quality players and we'll need to pay fair price to get them.

I don't want a "2nd rate ruckman", I want a fwd-ruck who presents a threat in the forward line and who is a capable ruckman. I don't expect our FD to pursue a "2nd rate ruckman" so I expect the trade price to be comensurate. You need to think it thru - you get what you pay for.

I'm very keen to fill the fwd-ruck role with a mature player. I'll trust the FD on who - they know 100x more than me about it. If it's Hale then fine - he appears to have good attributes as a long target, good kick and can definitely ruck - as I've said my worry about him is his defensive ability. Now on trade cost - I think you need to look at what you'd want for Matthew Warnock - they're in a similar situation - in-demand position KPB, held just out of the best 22 by two better players, in contract. I see people talking a 3rd rounder - would you take that for Warnock - I don't think so. Personally I'd prefer to retain our draft position and trade a player - not necessarily Warnock, I'm just using him as equal value, because I think it'd take at least our second rounder and then some.

GC here: http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=88635 "Draft concessions enable Gold Coast to sign up to 16 uncontracted players in the 2010 post-season." GWS here: http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=86208 "Team GWS will enjoy the same draft pick concessions as the Gold Coast franchise but will be given extra time to build its list. Team GWS will have access to 16 uncontracted players, from AFL clubs, across a two-year period. If it can’t sign 16 players in 2011, it can continue signing players in 2012."

St.Kilda 2 goals from kick-ins, Collingwood nil.

Need to add Setanta to the list.

That would be a nightmare alright.

Wrong - GC have one year at OOC signings, no matter how many they sign - it's over fot them this year. GWS have the following 2 years.

then again, I thought these guys were all related:

Because they are playing at the next level down. We've got two different ruck needs: 1. Backup #1 ruck for Jamar If Jamar gets injured, as Golf says, we don't have a ready-made #1 ruck replacement. We could retain PJ as insurance but he has had plenty of opportunituy to show his wares and hasn't delivered. We have Spencer but he's young and he has been injury prone so we can't depend on him. Without at least a competitive #1 ruckman we'll lose midfield structure and it will be hard to develop the team. Golf's suggestion of delisting PJ and rookie-ing a state-league mature aged ruckman makes good sense. It frees a spot on the primary list and we'll only need the insurance if Jamar and Spencer can't ruck - hopefully Jamar will play all 24 games. There is a risk there'll be no-one suitable available to rookie as Golf points out. 2. Fwd-Ruck relief With the interchange rule changes we wont be able to go with 2 traditional tap ruckmen, i.e. Jamar and Spencer together is too top heavy. We'll need someone to relieve the #1 ruckman for 20-40 mins a game and play a useful role the rest of the time - someone who could ruck full-time if Jamar gets injured mid-match. Bailey has stated that he'd like a long forward target - the combo we need is long forward taget with genuine rucking capability. PJ is useless in the forward line, Fitzpatrick or Gawn may fulfill this need but they're some development away. We could draft an U18 but they'd be even further away - not to say this isn't a good idea but it won't solve the problem for 2011-2. To trade for a player capable of fulfilling this role we'd need to give good players and/or picks. We may be able to draft a mature age player not in AFL but again if they're any good we'll need to use an early pick.

Yeah right and they're offering us Veszpremi for Jurrah. It's the trade time disease - if I said Setanta for Warnock both Melbourne and Carlton supporters would be demandng pick sweeteners. Perspective please.

I'm far more interested in Josh Fraser than Jack Anthony. Fraser is versatile and appears to have a good footy brain and knows where to position himself to assist Watts and Jurrah. He can ruck quite well to assist Jamar and wouild be a perfect foil. If jamar gets injured he can play #1. He's 29 at the start of next year - that means he'll be 32 in 4 years in 2014 - it'd be better if he was two years younger but he's not too old. The question mark is on his knee - we'd need a solid medical. Yes he's not an aggressive big man but I think his smarts outweigh that - we don't want a big dumb lunk (aka Will).

We need someone who can play fwd-ruck - Anthony can't do this.

They're different cases. Woey was in contract - he really didn't have to go but if he was going it had to be a trade. Jones is out of contract - if he doesn't like our plans he can go in the draft with a contract request and we get nothing.

You can't trade a player to somewhere he doesn't want to go

Why would GC trade when they can take him for free as uncontracted? Fortunately this means I don't need to get started on the suggestion of a top 8 pick for Jones ...

Luke Power >>> Pick 57 >>> Simon Buckley

If he's value for money I am positive he'll be with us in 2011.

Brent Grgic, Big Al, Godders, Belly, Ferg and CJ all polled Brownlow votes for us.

Gumbleton has had injuries but his kicking! It's is truly horrible - how someone could get through junior football these days with an action like that is incredible. There's a big question mark using a top 3 pick on a KPF who simply cannot kick. Jack Watts is a great kick - we don't have any worries there.

His trick is the line breaking goal from outside 50. But his lack of agility and resulting inability to provide defensive pressure in the forward line is a major limitation. For example in R22 North's backline took big advantage of this.

He's not delisted - yet. He just wont be offered a new contract. IF GC want him and they don't want any other MFC OOC player then they can take him in their set of OOC players and we get compensation. If they want him, it's no cost to them - they don't supply the pick, the AFL does - otherwise they have to draft him or trade for him.

If Josh Fraser's knee passed medical scrutiny I'd take at him depending on the price - assuming he's OOC. I think he's a smart footballer and we want him to play fwd-ruck not #1 ruckman. He's definitely a better player than Hale. He doesn't have the physical presence of say the big Q but I'm unconvinced Q is a smart footballer or that he can mark overhead. At 29 in 2011 Fraser could play 3-4 years - we'd probably need to offer him 3 years. If he is OOC Collingwood have to trade realistically, if he's in contract forget it. We have some players who may be looking for more opportunities that may appeal to them.

Eye fillet that's been in the sun for 3 days doesn't make a good meal because it only costs $2.