rpfc

Where do you get off turning a reference to the 32 on these players back into a slagging off of Brent Moloney? He's a 'mess', and he's 'useless'? Come on, mate. Poor form.

This club has been far too protective of careers at expense of the club. I have said before, and I will continue to say, I want a flag. And if that means not seeing Brad Green play 200 games for this club, then so be it.

The club isn't keen to lose him for not much and see him become someone they hope he can become. The value isn't there for Rivers in the trade market, we are better off keeping him, getting his body right and playing him in a back pocket. Martin at FB and Garland at CHB. Imagine Rivers playing on the 3rd or 4th forward, or playing loose, more value than pick 30ish.

For YM and others - it's easier to trade Green than it is to trade Bruce. Green is OOC and Bruce is on around $500-600k. This means that clubs are reticent to take on his wage. And if we do trade Bruce we will pay half, or maybe more depending on who is willing to trade for him. The Bruce situation is a reason why the club is not eager to put Green on $500-600k in 2011 (the third year he wants) as we will be right where we have been with bitpart players being paid an enormous amount.

You are harping on a semantical argument. Of course no two players are "equal" in talents; there are so many variables to consider, strengths and weaknesses that apply differently to a midfielder as compared to a forward, athletic ability etc. If there is no stand-out player of the few that are considered in the top 3 - Rich, Watts, and Natanui - then go with the KPP.

My original point was that if they are even in talent, go for the KPP. You said - That's what we did with Molan - And I replied "Who was Molan even to?". Molan was picked because he was a tough KPP and went far higher than his talent should have allowed. He was not even in talents to those picked immediately after him. Watts and Rich are even in talent, as far as can be discerned at such an early stage of their careers, and I would go for the bloke who is 194cm tall and is a CHF or FF in the making. It is not the Molan decision all over again.

Who was Molan even to? Kevin Sheehan was completely shocked at our selection if I remember correctly. I don't accept that it's just plain stupid, because you're analogy is just plain stupid. Deledio and Franklin, great talents in the same draft. Who would you take? They both have talent but Franklin is more valuable to his team and their chances of winning a flag. Deledio is the best midfielder in the team but cannot be a catalyst for success to the extent that Franklin can. Therefore, go tall.

For those of you who are unconvinced of the argument that a great tall forward is more important than a great onballer, look at the Bulldogs in the Prelim. They were, and are, crying out for a CHF or FF to straighten them up. They don't want another Cooney, they want a tall forward target. Will Minson is great at a pinch, but he is ruckman pretending to be a forward. You could argue that Geelong has no dominant forward but they have a midfield of Ablett, Ling, Corey, Selwood, and Chapman. If we could pick up Rich and 3 or 4 others of his ilk then, yes, great midfielders can drive a flag tilt. If Rich and Watts are pretty even, and by all accounts they are, we just have to go tall.

If there is an option, and I have no information that there is or there isn't, it will be the same as the first two years. 1m over 2 years with an option for a third at $500k. I'm for standing our ground on two years.

The cap increase from 09-11 will be approx. $520k (around 6.5% of the cap). You are absolutely right about Green's wage being swallowed by the increase, but that doesn't allay my concern over having a massive contract for a fringe player in 2011. I'm not even willimg to give that clause that BB was discussing, things change quickly in footy, as White can tell you, he was a stalwart, undroppable until he was dropped and became an expensive list clogger. And for that one second of doubt you have, here is the article that mentions CC's remarks. Jeff White and Adam Yze cut saves Demons about $1m

What a fat 18 year old! Where did you get that info?

High Tower this is a massive 'bump'. I think you need to calm down. As for the leadership group - who knows what Brock will get up to over the summer. And with trade week, I don't know who will be left.

The best 5 players at each club get paid roughly the same amount. That is because of the rule that every club has to pay 92.5% of the cap. We have to pay the money to someone, which is why White and Yze were on a combined wage of over $1 million. The source is Chris Connolly, who revealed that to reporters a few weeks ago. I think $500k is a conservative estimate of what Brad wants and what we are prepared to offer. As for your last few questions, I don't understand what you are saying. The cap is still there even when 'really good players' earn more than $500k.

If our rebuild is going to plan, Brad Green will probably struggle to be in the 22 in 2011. But he'll be on $500k. Let that sink in, and think about the up and coming players that we will have to resign at the end of 2010 (Jones, Garland, McLean, Bate etc.) knowing that $500k is locked up on Brad Green. We are trying to build a strong club, not respect careers.

He lacks vision, can make mistakes with the ball, and doesn't zone off his man as well as Rivers or Petterd. Doesn't bode well for HBF. But he does have pace, a strong core, is ferocious in close, and has great tackling technique. I just don't think we should delist a 23 year old with commitment that has the aforementioned skills. Hope he finds his place, I think as a defensive forward to push Davey onto a wing, but if he doesn't he is capable depth.

Just calm down on the sarcasm. Those of us putting Bell forward are just trying an avenue for him to 'deliver.' We are not giving him a free pass, or being delusional as you imply. The acid is on, but we all have to step up. I have to find my lucky hat that I lost around 2006, I swear I did. And you still need work on your sentence building. Because gramatically, wow. I get queezy reading it.

Great footy brain, but is running out of time. At a better club he would have been dropped already. However, his back half of the season was good at times, and inspired at other times. Chance to be traded but more worth to us on the field than a 3rd round pick.

I'm all for picking up a promising 21 year old, even if he is an in-and-under type. Especially if he is free in the PSD, but this Warnock rubbish means we can't commit that pick to any out-of-contract player until Oct 10.

I would suggest that being a leader extends to being seen by those you are leading to be a leader. Green was injured, however, but real 'captain material' make the extra effort to be involved in the group even when they are overcoming something themselves. He had a very good season though, and was actually put back in the leadership group midseason. 1st round pick or two years more. I don't want to have a 31 year old flanker on $500k in and out of the team as we try to sign up our youngsters and stay within the cap. The trouble of having Yze and White on a mil combined was offset by the fact that we didn't have too many 'prospects' to re-sign at the end of last year.

Getting better, and asserting himself more in marking contests. But his ruckwork has stagnated. Needs to work on this, I don't want to have Jamar as first ruck with PJ relieving in the long term. I don't think it is good enough a combination. If Warnock doesn't spill to the PSD and Vickery cannot be assured, we have to throw a wide net with our rookie selections and find someone good enough to allow a second ruckman like PJ to flourish.

Yes... a famous quote. Bell has no vision. He has committment in spades, and fearlessness in the contest. The Mitch Hahn analogy has merit in my opinion. Chance for a trade, but not a delist. He is worth more than pick 51 and the next few years might be his saving grace as the drafts become squeezed for talent. I'd try him on a forward flank as others overtake him on a back flank. That is, of course, if he's still at the club...

I hope he fills out like his brother Mitch, because we will have Garry Lyon back in the forward line. Needs to find a tad more aggression, but that should come as he gets more confidence and experience. Great first year, really enjoyed going to the footy to see him play.

He wasn't saying he couldn't make it in the game, but as a forward. Bloody hard place to play - CHF. You need a footy brain; know when to lead, where to lead, etc. Hard to learn.

I think the basic premise of the thread was "we are not as crap as we may fear." On that I agree, our talent is young. And with young talent, it is all potential. But with Buckley, Jones, Batram, McLean, Bate, Miller, Frawley, Morton, PJ, Sylvia, Dunn, Petterd, Grimes, CJ, Maric, Garland, Bell, Moloney, Rivers, Newton, Martin, Davey, Warnock, Wonaeamirri, Jamar, and Valenti all 25 or younger at the start of next season, and all showing varying levels of potential I don't despair like some. Add 3 more players (hopefully 4 with a trade) from this draft in the top 20 and possibly McNamara, Cheney, and Spencer, and you have 32 players that have may have a very bright future. Turn 60 - 70 percent of them into good players and you'll have a very competitive team.

That is not an argument to not pursue a 1st round pick, that is an argument to recruit better. Green should re-sign for the reasonable amount we are prepared to pay for a winger/flanker who is not in the top 80 players in the leaugue. Otherwise he will be at another club on Oct 10. And, probably, on less than we are prepared to pay.