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Garland is pushing Carroll out of the team at the moment, which is promising for the future. Wheatley and Carroll for Valenti and Buckley. This would take our over 24 yr olds to McDonald, White, Bruce, Green, and Robertson (5 out of 22). Another promising sign for the future. But 5 is as low as I would like it to go.

Good luck to him. Hope he gets a few games and a few touches.

Brad Miller played extremely well against Fremantle. But if he wants to be CHF, HFF, or FF for the Melbourne Demons going forward he has to play like that more often. Love his attitude but he's 24 and we need to see more from him.

Has been cruelled by injuries but I wouldn't want to trade a top 20 pick unless we traded for it. Another promising player that frustrates...

This, by any chance, wouldn't be a reaction to the story in the paper today about Nathan Foley is it? Lots of teams overlooked him, with hindsight, the club was wrong and we all know it. I'm sure that everyone involved, given the advent of a time-machine, will correct their decision.

Good point. Not sure about Grimes being quick, Buckley is quick but can be very stupid with the footy. Davey has got to stay on a wing, but that still leaves Jones, McLean, Moloney, and McDonald as the nucleus of a slow midfield. They get a lot of contested footy but when we don't have it, they can look like they're drowning.

They all have promise but so would the kids we would pick up with 17 and 18. I do agree that Warnock should be traded for, to keep the PSD pick open.

Can we stop this never ending argument? How about we all say 4 wins 18 losses and we get a shiny toy surprise. Any more and we don't. 2009 is going to be a thin draft. I'm conflicted on what to do, trade up then or now? Not at all? 2010 will be a fat draft (because of the increase in age) for the clubs with picks 6 - 13 and 16 - 30. But 2011 and 2012 will be back to a normal draft and if with the concessions still in place we better be on our way by then. PS. I am in favour of giving teams that lose players to GC and WS compensatory picks, but it's difficult to arbitrate that. I'm sure clubs will bring it up.

No, the Casey proposal is for full time at Cranbourne until Olympic Park is up and running and then winter training at OP and summer training at Casey Fields in Cranbourne. Could work, the Yankees have a summer training base at Tampa in Florida where the local (lower level) team is called the Tampa Yankees. I think it's a good idea if they can get it done, also having some involvement with local councils, I would suggest they sell the lack of all year round presence of the Demons as a plus. Basically saying "you want these guys taking away these brand new facilities we bought? Don't you want to use them?"

Yes, but when it comes time to buy a membership or gather sponsors for 2009 the factors that go into people coming on board are not going to be swayed by a 2008 season of 6 wins and 16 losses, as opposed to 2 wins and 20 losses. Personally, I want to keep the side young with only Bruce, Green, Wheatley, White, Robertson, and McDonald as stalwarts, with Carroll, Neitz, Whelan, Holland, Yze only coming in for selected games or injury to the previous 6. If we win games with that young team, then great, if not... Failure gets its own reward. PS. On the fact of the effect of losing on the players - I don't see how an extra handful of wins spread over the season is going to markedly help their psyche...

How about asking our midfielders and forwards to stop allowing 62 inside 50s a game and then judge Bell as HBF in a half decent side?

Exactly. The end. Everyone shut up and stop defending the indefensible, you are embarrassing the club. We had a percentage of 52 at half time last week for f@#$% sake!!

Miller is contracted for 09. Rumour starters should do their homework.

My players 'on notice' (for any Stephen Colbert fans) change constantly but it's usually based on their demeanour. Anyone sulking with their head down is not a pleasant sight for me and I cannot stand that (White, Green, Bruce, Jamar, Yze, Robbo and Davey are the culprits with varying degrees). Those imploring their teammates on, while practicing what they preach, are a cause for defence in my eyes (McLean, Carroll, Neitz, Moloney) as are those that don't preach but still practice (Rivers, Batram, Bate, Davey, and Bell).

The one thing that could save Yze (although I think he's done) is if the club needs one more year of him to push the club to 92.5% of the salry cap instead of putting some youngsters on inflated salaries to get there. Lord knows with Holland, Neitz, White, and Yze will clear an enormous amount from the cap - upwards of $1-1.2m. Possibly not necessary with (by my reckoning): Bate, Warnock, Bell, Frawley, Woneanmirri, Moloney, Buckley, Dunn, Petterd, Garland and possibly Valenti required to negotiate new deals. Green and Whelan I believe are also out of contract but their new deal would be equivalent or less than their current one, so that wouldn't affect the cap space. Anyway I think Neitz, White, Yze, Holland, Bode, C.Johnson, and Weetra will go. Bruce and Green are our only trade options, and I will only let them go for a top 15 pick. Sylvia has age on his side, otherwise... Wonna deserves elevation and Valenti might get there as well. 4 picks (at this stage: 1, 17, 18, 34) in the national draft and 1 PSD pick. Those calling for Carroll, Jamar, Miller, and Robertson to be moved on should be reminded that they are contracted for 2009. Reminder: Estimations of contracts are my own and pure conjecture, intermingled with press reports. There will be mistakes.

Tim Watson is the awful one. Jamar is in a tough position. He can play the bash and crash ruckman and he is handy as a marking tall in the square. But he is out of his depth around the ground, in this regard he is similar to Sandilands - with the difference being 15cm. That is why PJ is value, because he can play a lead up forward role, defend the resting ruckman, and follow the play in the middle with good skill. Jamar is playing well, but his effectiveness may be outdone by a Spencer or Warnock, just because they are 204cm+ and Jamar has no extra attributes to distinguish himself from them. Tough, but that's footy.

Outside of the Geelong game we have been awful, those arguing against a semantical argument over 'the worst side' are kidding themselves. Up until half time Melbourne scored 63 goals 61 behinds - 439. Our opponents scored 126 goals 89 behinds - 845. With a percentage of 52 we would have played some of the worst football in more than a decade. I'd run away from the "we weren't that bad" argument pretty quick folks, it doesn't read well.

Adelaide away, Hawthorn, St.Kilda at the dome, and Collingwood. We will be 1 and 10 (maybe 2 and 9 with QB) heading into a game against Richmond at the dome (tougher than many people think). Then Sydney at Manuka, the Lions at the G, Dogs at the Dome, Freo over there, and North. Maybe the Lions could be a W. Essendon should be a W, then Geelong, WCE at the G, Port Away, and then Richmond at the G. I think we might beat Collingwood, Brisbane, North, Essendon, WCE, and Richmond. But if we play like we did in the 26 qtrs before the last two, we will beat only Ess, WCE, and Richmond in Rd 22. Sadly this option is our path to a reward (priority pick.18). WARNING: Indulging Demon Fan If we play like we did in last half on Sunday: St.Kilda, Collingwood, Rich, Sydney, Lions, Freo, North, Ess, WCE, and Rich are all beatable and that take us to 11 wins and probably the eight.

Is ND to blame for everything? Grow a pair and realise that ND was not the disease that some portray him as. As for not playing blokes underdone - that's rubbish. Bruce at the start of the season was unfit, Moloney was nursed through Rd.1 which was an abject failure and he was out for the next three. Davey and his ankle is another example. Players play injured and coaches play unfit blokes, don't give me this 'ND was to blame' crap and expect to get away with it.

Getting indignant at YM is pointless, he does these things for your indignance. It's a vicious cycle. As for Wheels to come back... We should be looking to the future here, and if Whelan plays that's not mutually exclusive to looking at the future but it's getting there. Surely with Frawley (19 yrs old, 193cm), Warnock (24, 192), Rivers (23, 192), and Garland (20, 191) the pressure is on Carroll (27, 191) to keep his place. Wheels for Carroll.

You can thank Homer Simpson. I think we should 'return-oriented' when it comes to trade week. It's not a matter of ruthlessness but a desire to build towards an end that may mean Green's value toward that end is an early draft pick. That is not to say that pick 29 is good enough, I don't think it is. But if someone said that they would take Green and they gave us a ticket to one of the 'best 15' 18 yr olds in the country you would have to look long and hard and do what is in the best interests of the MFC winning a flag.

We have to continue looking at the horizon and make sure that we maintain our team is predominantly young. On Sunday we had 4 teenagers, 3 20yr olds, and 8 between the ages of 22 and 24. No free games to the younglings but we must keep the 27 and over crowd to a maximum of 8 (Wheatley, Green, Bruce, Robertson, White, and McDonald are immovable. Yze and Holland would have to be considered long shots for an extended run, and Carroll, Neitz, and Whelan would be somewhere in the middle). If we win games so be it, but we must keep our focus on 2009 and beyond (maybe more focused on the 'beyond' than the 2009).

Bate is a KPP. I hope Sunday reinforced that for many. He is too slow for a wing, but already is a fantastic HFF. I reckon he can become CHF or FF. His left foot looks ungainly but his kick to Robbo in that 3rd Qtr was a 40 metre pass that never got 6 metres above the ground, and it was off only a few steps.

As with everyone, I am looking forward to seeing Grimes. But have some concerns - from all I have read about Grimes he is an inside midfielder, on the slowish side with exceptional leadership skills. Can we have a future midfield of Jones, McLean, Moloney, Grimes, and Valenti? Looking at St.Kilda and their embarrassingly one-paced midfield it seems that you have to have some quickness in midfield. Looking ahead (and assuming Morton and Bate are groomed for a KP) Centre line: Davey Grimes Moloney Rucks: Johnson, McLean, Jones That's alot of pressure on Davey, and it doesn't bode well for Valenti to find a position. Even in the forward line there would be Wonna, Maric, and possibly Davey as small forwards ahead of him. I would like to give Valenti a run of games before the season is out but at the minute, his position is seemingly covered.

As Melbourne supporters, we would have to be used to that 1st half. I stay for the reasons Dappa outlined - hope amid the carnage. This year is going to be a tough one and you just have to go with a some mates, or family and have a joke when things are going awfully because you'll go mad if you just sit there at the ground and stew. But you have to go, you don't want to miss Wonna's excitement, or Cale's smoothness, or Beamer acting like a maniac when things aren't going well, or the act of trying to figure out whether Garland is good or not. Even if we don't win another game i'll go and enjoy the fledgling careers of those that I think are good enough to push us back up the ladder soon...