Thrice

On 2/12/2017 at 7:13 PM, nmgar said:

I've just checked the Champion Data scores in the Hun and I was amazed to see that Collingwood's highest scorer was their ruckman, King with 150 points.

She scored this with 2 effective disposals, 0 marks, 1 clearance 3 tackles and 13 effective tap-outs.

How on earth does that give her 150 points, 2nd highest of all players?

Players of supercoach will know that an effective tap is one of the highest scoring acts. And 13 effective taps in 60 minutes is enormous - Max averaged that last season in 120 minutes, and he was far and away the highest in the comp. 

I know an effective tap is 5 points for the mens game; but when you then factor in that the match is shorter, with fewer possessions overall, those taps would be worth even more than that, as the scores are scaled to a combined 3,300 across all players.

2 hours ago, DubDee said:

you rate their midfield an 8? Agree on Steven but no other A graders in my opinion and a lot of them are inside mids or runners without much skill x factor. id rate it a 6 at best

I think their midfield will hold them back, unless guys like Billings move in there and develop

DeeSpencer was referring to the 8 players in the midfield (and the 7 forward and 7 in defence).

12 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Lewis is clearly a leader at the club.

Co-captains: Jones and Lewis. (Will ensure that Lewis is thoroughly invested in this club AND he deserves it AND I've no doubt the rest of the player group think of him in that light anyway including Jones.)

Vice captains: Viney and Vince.

Others: Gawn, T Mac and Watts.

 

Ron, mate, I usually like your posts: but there is absolutely no way that Lewis will be co-captain with Jones.

Jones has earned the right to captain the club on his own two feet, and making Lewis captain diminishes this. It also smacks of the 'Melbourne of old' STMJ was referring to: a premiership gun falls in our laps and is made captain without playing a game. I actually think even including him in the leadership group is a bit of a stretch (but understand where the sentiment comes from).

In all honesty, I think he would refuse if he were offered co-captaincy anyway (which he won't be).

Gawn, Daisy, Watts, Oliver, Jones, ?Viney?, Tracc, TMac, Gus, Hogan

10 hours ago, McQueen said:

As for Salem, you either don't get instruction on how to pack your back pack or he's too thick to do a simple risk assessment.

It's the latter. Put him the 'he's lucky he's a good footballer' category.

22 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

As it is the team's senior leaders who are into him: Gawn, Jones and Lewis I would say 'yes'! 

Letting him know what they expect and what to expect if he doesn't follow the rules.  A good lesson to learn and learn it early.  

Its these little things that show how far our leadership team has come.  A far cry from the days when players didn't feel like training so cancelled it (related in Jim Styne's book). 

I have been wondering whether this was part of the 'punishment' for his DD episode during the off-season: it seems a coordinated approach. @Satyriconhome or others - is this something you could try to suss out?

34 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I managed to get along and take some fairly average photographs that I will upload later tonight.

Overall, it was a fairly causal session with most players in small groups working on specific skills and drills under minimal pressure.

Succinct as always CB.

Any chance you can elaborate on your observations? I always appreciate your take on things

1 hour ago, chook fowler said:

Agree - have been watching some highlights of games from the past 2 seasons and he seems to glide ala Pendlebury and his kicking to position is elite - also knows where the goals are.

Its funny you mention Pendlebury - I was talking to a very knowledgeable mate yesterday (Saints supporter) who also compared him to Pendlebury. Reckons he will be the best of the lot: the 'pure football brilliance' and impact he has had on some games in 2015 in particular is remarkable for first year player.

26 minutes ago, binman said:

Amazing Messi 42 Right Foot Goals

 

 

Ha ha, the danger of using the rhetorical device in argument! Put it down to the exception that proves the rule?

That was stunning viewing, by the way.

32 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Never played Thrice?

At a stoppage, you gain possession and exit the defensive side of the pack, there are no clear players, as a right footer you turn left (anti clockwise) and the opposition knows that, what do you do? You go clockwise and kick on your left surprising the opposition. It only needs to work once a game or to do it once a game and the opposition have more difficulty trying to stop you. If every player does it once per game the opposition will have no idea where to defend at stoppages. 

It is another tool that every player should have, it spooks the opposition. It does not have to be as good as the preferred side just an option.

Could've saved you the trouble of a reply had you read the last line:

6 hours ago, Thrice said:

The only value it has is in being able to kick a short pass to space / a free teammate from congestion. 

9 hours ago, pinkshark said:

Astounding!  One of the greatest loads of bull$%!^ I've ever read.

How many times has Lionel Messi scored a goal on his right foot? 

How many lace-out passes does Suckling hit on his right?

Why doesn't every full forward use NP when kicking from the 'dead side' to open up the angle? 

I could go on, but what's the point? 

Basically every human has a preferred side, and it will always be better than the non-preferred. And the precision required required to play at the top level means that unless you are truly ambidextrous (such as Mitchell, Brayshaw, Vince) you won't be able to hit passes with the required level of accuracy on your NP, no matter how much you practice. 

The only value it has is in being able to kick a short pass to space / a free teammate from congestion. 

23 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Nope, the stutter has been there since day one, I watched with amazement (along with other players ) at his first training session when he lined up for a shot at goal, it is another myth on here that he hasn't got the distance, he has, as an avid training watcher he can kick them from anywhere.

This is still a very young guy who has had issues both physical and mental,.he will be fine, I am amused that the only people who don't rate him are MFC supporters.

He is going to be one part of a very good team going forward, if he kicks a consistent 40 or 50 goals that will do me, because hopefully we will have a few more doing the same thing, training drills are already showing me that this is what the plan is

I can assure you this is not the case. 

Talk to a Bombers supporter about who they'd prefer between Hogan and Daniher, a Pies supporter with Moore, Saints with McCartin.

Whilst its true that the thing they point to is the body language and mental fragility, his kicking action comes up regularly too. It's like he's taken the worst of the Riewoldts: Jack for the mental fragility and dummy spits at his team mates, and Nick for the wayward set shot kicking. 

It is remarkable that anyone could flippantly suggest that this kicking action couldn't be improved. 

21 minutes ago, durango said:

You do realise the world record for 3k Steeple chase for women is 8:52:78 so 9:45 is not that great for a professional footballer who is an endurance runner. And running and jumping steeples and a water jump is much harder than flat running.  When I was a junior I ran 1 mile(1616 meters) on grass in bare feet in the time of 5:05 which was not that great. I did not train every day. My son who was a decathlete ran 1500 meters after doing 10 events in 2 days in the time of 4:35 he was mainly a sprinter.

Unfortunately Geelong don't do 3km time trials anymore so we could gauge where Blicavs is at after 4 years in the AFL and an extra 15kg of muscle. I know he ran an 8:20 prior to being drafted (and when he was gunning for the London Olympics), but I very much doubt he'd get near that now.

2 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

To the people saying that it will somehow be better to miss the finals than make it, just know youre in good company - Damian Barrett said the same thing

It is the stupidest thing I have ever heard

Of course Purple would say that: he's the most one-eyed North supporter in the media. 

19 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

 

I share your uneasy feelling, hemingway.  Maybe it is intuition.  Maybe it is things like:  

• A few times posters have said players respect Roos but really 'love' Goodwin.  The Goodwin 'Love' without the respect can quickly evaporate.  As 'Swooper' alludes to Goodwin has big shoes to fill when it comes to Respect.
• Goodwin has openly talked about being really good mates with Melksham and Hibbered.  I'm not sure having the coach's mates on a team is ideal for team harmony especially if a perception of 'favourites' evolves re contracts, team selections etc.  That they are reported as getting 4 yr contracts when our homegrown (excellent) players get only 2 or 3 (except Jones/Viney) makes me wonder. 
• People seem to think that Goodwin will be a Hinkley, Pyke or Beveridge and we will automatically climb the ladder.  Goodwin is very inexperienced compared to those guys: 4 years at a dodgy club and 2 years with Roos'; never coached his own team at any level; has no runs on the board.
• Last but not least - Roos has not followed the Longmire handover pattern.  Is it Roos' ego to make him coach out the season?  Or does he have some doubts about Goodwin?  Roos has given Goodwin no public profile whatsoever. A mystery?
• We have a very inexperienced team with limited on-field leadership and again will have a rookie coach. 

I look forward to 'Goodwin bringing his own strengths' as 'Swooper' notes.  For our sake, I sure hope man management, team building and coaching is among them. But I can't shake that uneasy feeling.  The one thing that gives me some comfort is that Macca is there. 

This is the part that scares the bejeezus out of me.

This has been Hardwick's major problem. The Richmond players absolutely love him, and undoubtedly they are a tight bunch. But without the respect the pointed words don't mean as much, and if you love your mates you won't be as harsh on them when they need to be called out. Contrast that with Clarkson, Longmire, Beveridge, the Scotts - and the culture of those playing groups.

3 minutes ago, P-man said:

I sometimes wonder if all the fuss over him leaving would've been halved if that photo of him in the Fremantle scarf had never gone public.

Every kid on our list besides Grimes, Stretch, Viney and Harmes barracked for someone else before they came here. 

Brayshaw's dad is on the board of North and his uncle is the president. Not a word has been said about him joining North.

Prestia's connection with us is well known. But if the Tiges are offering $700k and a first round draft pick and we only value him at $500k and a second rounder + young fringe best-22 player there's every chance he end up there instead.

I remember the story of when our recruiting team went over to WA (Busselton?) to interview him. We found his Aunt who thought we actually there to talk to his cousin Lewis, as he was the one the family thought was the better player. Certainly early in their careers that was the case, and arguably even over their respective journeys, but at the present moment there is no question that we have the better player.

15 minutes ago, Choko said:

I suspect we will play O Mac and not Garland.

To me, Garland is either low on confidence or the game has gone past him.  Every time he gets near it it looks like he is trying to wrestle a bar of soap.

I am a Dunn fan, but I personally love the fact he isn't getting a game.  There are too many things the coaches have been frustrated about with him, and for too long we have had to accept that because there were no better alternatives.  For mine, the fact he hasn't remedied those areas and now will not get a game without doing so will lift standards across the board.

 

We have to trim the list from the 7 on the bench. Garland is named on the field, so won't be dropped.

The 7 on the bench are: Kent, Newton, OMac, Hunt, ANB, Grime, Harmes. Make your selection from that lot

8 hours ago, Chook said:

I just hope one day I see a Melbourne game in which our coach makes a tactical move that wins us that game, even though it might not be 100% in line with our predetermined gameplan. That would be nice.

Roos did it in the game against GWS at 3/4 time, and we won.

He switched Jones and Vince between m/f and hbf, put Garlett to a wing, pushed Watts to a higher hf and isolated Hogan deep forward. He spoke about it in the presser after the match.

You might recall him putting hogan in the middle for the third term after a quiet 1st half to get him a feel for the ball... Which was repaid with 3 goals in the final term.

I surmise it was because we were on top in the contest all day, so we backed ourselves to continue that and had the pace and creativity of Garlett and Watts delivering into the forward line. Kennedy was killing it on the other wing all game as well.

7 minutes ago, Akum said:

The other thing about the Diamond Defence that just occurred to me. The Dogs often defended by pushing us out wide, but attacked through the corridor, which is what we were trying to do. For long periods of the game, they owned the corridor. I don't know this for sure, but it may well be that Diamond Defence works better against attacks from out wide than from through the corridor.

Interesting point.

I played Hockey at a moderately high level, and there are a lot of parallels with the diamond defence in the type of 4-man structure I mostly commonly played under. Hockey is a game where much of the attack is along the flanks, and the defence would pivot around the side of the ground the attack was coming from. This structure is very effective at guarding space and foiling attacking thrusts when there are limited angles of attack (such as from the flanks). It is harder to defend balls coming through the corridor; in this scenario we would revert to a more man-on-man set up. This was also the team rule in the 16-yard "D" (for those that don't know hockey, you can only score from within this zone). 

This is where the two-way running is paramount, and requires the mids to be 'on' all the time and force the attacks out wide, where we are better able to defend space. 

Another advantage of the diamond, which other have alluded to, is that it forces the forwards out wide. This means that whilst they may take a lot of marks inside 50, they will be wider and force the forward to take a lower % shot. This is being played out in the relatively poor conversion against us. 

Have any of you watched us play all year? He won't have a direct opponent. He will kick 4-5, all out the back and mostly on a mis-match with Jetta. 

But I'm not worried about him at all. The midfield pressure and forward press will mean far more to the result of the game than who is nearest Stringer when the ball gets out the back.

17 hours ago, ding said:

Prestia is a gun, and would give us more options than we currently have. With Prestia in our side, we could use Brayshaw and Bernie from half back to give us much better disposal from that area of the ground. I would take Prestia any day of the week for a first rounder, and even throw in our second round for their third. (The way they are playing it wont be too much of a downgrade)

*Red wine talking

 

Good point on Brayshaw. He played much of his underage career as a half-back flanker. A lot of those skills are on display at AFL level too: strong mark, vision, great one-on-one. If we're able to play him off half back it means that we have depth in the midfield rotations such that we are able to play him back there, like we do with Vince now.

22 minutes ago, Choke said:

Maybe we need a new stat, like 'clanger goal assists' or something. A stat showing if a clanger resulted in a goal or not.

Or maybe a different word it? Like 'clanger' is just what we mean right now, but a 'glanger' is a clanger that directly results in a goal?

So Viney/Dangerfield/Ziebell would have might clangers, but Tmac has high glangers.

Edit: yes, I am a wordsmith. Fear my wordly power.

They do have this stat. "Points conceded from turnover". Jack Viney leads that stat for us as per this article from a couple of weeks ago: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-04-20/giving-it-away.*  This would correlate to the first part of Nasher's example above: if that errant handball in the heat of a stoppage didn't result in a tackle, but rather a score it would be recorded against that stat

* I couldn't find more recent data. There's some decent names in that list too: Bontempelli, Enright, Shiel, Zaharakis, Montagna. That also supports Nasher's premise. So I guess what I'm saying is you're great Nasher .

Whilst no where near as interesting as the other stories, I met him with my 4 y.o. son on Grand Final day. We had our dees gear on, so naturally he made a bee-line for us. He spent a good 5 minutes just chatting to my son, he is fantastic with kids - really relates to them on their level. Needless to say he's got a fan for life. 

My son was worried about his broken toe, and has asked every week when he will be playing for the dees. Needless to say he is very excited that he is playing tomorrow and will be proudly wearing his No.5 jumper!

13 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Article by robbo

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/expert-opinion/mark-robinson/jack-watts-a-more-settled-and-confident-player-writes-mark-robinson/news-story/0d4d64408001b0d5696e568f0b6881c9#load-story-comments

Great article by Robbo. He can write really well when he sticks to the facts rather than opinionating.

You know it's resonated when the comments on the article are all positive.