BenJamin on Deesy St

30 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

The biggest story in the past 100 years in the AFL ( the Essendon saga) was broken and reported on by John Pierik and Michael Gleeson at the Age.  Caro was head of Age football reporting at the time, and didn't write a single line about it. 

Her source at the AFL was Demetriou and he was trying to push it under the carpet, so no mention from Caro. 

Journalist?  No...... Pierik and Gleeson are journalists. 

Sorry George, way off the mark here, as Lord Nev has pointed out. She was at the forefront of this, reporting fearlessly and unrelentingly on the subject, much to the chagrin of many Bomber supporters and Hird sycophants.

7 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

I thought we got the better of the umpiring early but I had a niggling feeling it will go against us late in the game if scores are close and become victims of home crowd decisions later in the game. The same happened in 2019 when we got some shocking decisions against us in the last quarter against WC in Perth. This year it’s become a big problem for away teams in close finishes and vocal crowds. The umpires need some form of re-education.

Indeed JCB. With around 4 minutes remaining, I actually turned to my partner and said, "We won't be getting any free kicks for the rest of the game." It was as predictable as it was disgusting (from a Melbourne point of view). Umps get swept up in the moment like any of us would, I suppose. Self-preservation kicks in, in high pressure moments.

Hate the bloke but I don't recall David Howlett squibbing blowing the whistle in the '87 preliminary final, after the siren mind you, to give Buckenara that 15-metre penalty in front of a passionate and partisan Melb crowd. That's the sort of bravery and integrity required from umps in situations like last night (and in Geel v Bris, and Syd v Geel).

For what it's worth, I was more livid with the missed Keays holding the ball decision. After more than 20 HTB decisions the week before v Carlton, I am totally confused by the rule and its wildly inconsistent interpretation.

A paedophile ring infiltrated St Kilda's Little League for a decade, and the toll is now emerging

Not sure if this has been mentioned or posted but Russell Jackson has followed up with another excellent but disturbing article on the extent and impact of the alleged paedophilia by Little League coaches (Ray, Briggs and Mitchell). Again, not an easy read but these stories must be heard.

On 5/18/2021 at 7:26 AM, Dr.D said:

Brayshaw is an inside mid who has been forced out onto the wing where all of his positive attributes don't get utilised. Further to that, all of his flaws in his game (lack of leg speed, defensive pressure and foot skills) are getting exposed. They either have to find another spot for him or look to get a 2nd rounder for him and cut our losses. He needs to do it for himself. How does one go from 3rd in the brownlow to a fringe player.

Dr Drivel. Brayshaw forced out of the middle? A fringe player? Cut our losses and get a second rounder? For his sake? Ummm, no.

Time for you to move on from 2018 and embrace what is actually going on at the club. 

Brayshaw as a wingman is a critical component of our team, particularly with his defensive running and brave plugging of gaps (both on the ground and in the air). And he’s only going to get better in that position the longer he’s a member of the Ed Langdon Wing Club, learning from one of the best in the business and appearing to be loving it. He ain’t goin’ anywhere. One of the first picked in the side at the moment (along with our 8 or 9 All Australians!).

1 hour ago, one_demon said:

I never said teams who win heaps of games rarely win premierships, I said teams who start strongly like 9-0, rarely win premierships

Well, since 2000, 8 teams (other than Melb) have started with a 9-0 record. 

4 or 50% became premiers (Ess in 2000, Haw in 08 and Geel in 09 and 11), 1 got runner up (StK in 09), 2 bowed out in prelims (StK 04 and Freo 15) and 1 finished 8th (NM in 16).

I like these odds. We’re in it up to our eyeballs.

2 hours ago, 58er said:

I said to myself in the first 20 mins that same comment We were not handling the sep up in class at all well.

Made every mistake and fumble in the book and could have been 5goals  to nil down at 20 min. Mark.

But credit where credit is due we kicked 10.8 to 2.5 in the next 70 mins till 3/4 time to totally control the game.

Last quarter was a holding operation done without much fuss and much attention to team ethos and structure till it broke the Tigers discipline level.

Just as they may/will recall  Kossie was a little cheeky ( didn't mind it at all no backward steps from this new Demon) then we can bank the Tigers lack of Team discipline for future Occasions. 
 

Round 2 whenever at MCG will be worth waiting for! 

Yep, at 2.3.15 to 0.0.0, things were a little concerning, but not necessarily from a step up in class. It seemed we were a little hesitant, waiting at contests, not aggressively invading the space of Richmond players when they had the ball. Goodwin called it ‘ball watching’ in the after-match presser. Perhaps too much deference to the opposition and occasion, at least initially?

Anyway, as has been said in this forum, Charlie Spartacus changed all that in an instant with his ferocious tackle on Houli. Charlie’s tackling this year has been unbelievable. Sitting near the fence line last Sat night, you appreciate just how much commitment, effort and weight (for a small bloke) he puts into it. The slap, latch and crunch of a Spargo tackle is a thing of primeval beauty! It inspires the team.

As for Kozzie’s antics at the end, I also loved it. And Richmond’s ‘holier than thou’ attitude about this amuses me, particularly as many of their players spent much of the game sniping in marking and ruck contests, and in stacks-on scrimmages. Yes, they’ve been a great team and have earnt respect for past deeds but that doesn’t mean opposition teams should sit back and bow to their magnificence. Quite the opposite, I would have thought.

Just on this, it’s been quite instructive to see Richmond’s reactions to their losses against Port and us, and their need to point to past glories. Are they insecure about their prospects this season? Remember, Hardwick got all defensive and hoity-toity towards the Port supporter who offered him a tissue when he quipped, “We’ve won three of the last four flags mate, I’m not sure I need a tissue.” Riewoldt and others appeared to do something similar with Pickett, as if to say, “Get back in your box, show some respect, you ain’t achieved anything yet,” which is sort of all true but do they need to say it? They obviously think they do.

Anyway, I’m hoping the Tigers will be 4-6 soon, with their 2021 premiership aspirations - and indeed their era - over.

Bit annoying that MCC/MFC premium - but only ‘home access’ - members can’t book now (10am-12pm slot) with their kids who have Junior MFC ‘home and away’ membership. Gotta wait until 1pm

On 3/11/2021 at 10:47 PM, praha said:

Anger is the path to the Dark Side.

 

9 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

. . . Kossie is a pressure king! 

The stats ignore a lot of his crucial tap ons and spoils as well. 

Hopefully he settles down and just hits the crumbing spot a little slower, that's all he needs to do to get his disposals way up

Agree in part with this but I’d like to see him be more assertive (in terms of taking responsibility in possession) and actually grab the ball as his default first option, instead of doing cute flicks, tap-ons and - even last night - tunnel-balls. This will come with experience, improved awareness and confidence in own ability. Timing his acceleration in and out of contests, as you say, will help too.

Bartlett’s words have had the desired effect. Players have bought into the team defence, team-comes-first mantra. Trac’s post-game comments were illuminating in this regard. Working harder without the ball and creating opportunities and space on turnover, utilising our superior fitness. Loving it, may it continue.

10-3

Well done, Clarry, great to see you hold on to the ball longer, accelerate out of packs and look forward and beyond with your disposal. Good signs from Gus who decided to pull his finger out. Viney and Trak continuing their excellent seasons. Max brave. Jacko and Weid exciting and mobile, let’s stick with two talls up forward. May and Lever playing better together. But all means nothing if we don’t beat North.

One of my daughters, a keen Harry Potter fan, reckons the umps are under the Imperius Curse. A few Snape-like Crows fans with wands in the crowd, shouting ‘imperio’! As good a theory as any.

5 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I reckon the club knows where we’re at - and it’s not as bad as many here seem to think. It’s a pity we didn’t beat the Lions - because we should have.

Indeed. The club had no doubt pinned their hopes on winning one of the Bris and Port games. I just hope the ‘winnable’ Lions loss is not the game that blew our season apart like the one in R11 v Adel last year, ‘cos it sure seemed that way v Port. Time for some mental fortitude, Demons. Next two games will tell all, no excuses.

Probably been said before, but the structural and personnel changes to allow Fritsch to play third tall forward and Lever third tall back have made a mountain of difference. Let’s keep it that way, please. That and our sustained fierce tackling and pressure warmed my heart today.

I wouldn’t fall into the trap of saying our “effort is as good as anyone’s” and that our skills, decision-making and efficiency forward of centre are the main things letting us down.

Our effort is precisely the thing which has disappointed me the most this season.

Insipid in Round 1, inconsistent and coasting in Round 2. Then it got worse.

Countless strings of uncontested marks and possessions by Geelong pointed to laziness, issues with accountability and little preparedness to run and cover defensively. In other words, not everyone was willing to work hard off the ball. In modern footy (and soccer and basketball), it only takes one passenger to stuff up the whole team defence thing. We had more than a few stuffing it up.

The Tigers game then showed up more passengers in other ways, with certain players - more senior players, shall we say - half-heartedly going into contests or pulling out of contests altogether. When senior, highly-paid members of a team go into self-preservation mode and are unwilling to sacrifice themselves for their teammates, you know something is amiss. You know for a start that there’s a problem with standards and expectations around effort and a team-first attitude. There also appears to be a lack of positional awareness, and even trust, among players.

I’ve been reading quite a bit about my favourite German, Jürgen Klopp, and the transformational impact - in terms of effort, intensity and buy-in - he had on Liverpool FC players from the moment he arrived at the club a few years ago. (I love the Reds, perhaps more than the Dees now - get on board if you want to follow a team that wins, that scraps and is relentless in its pursuit of excellence!)

Klopp is an excellent man-manager and has always had a very clear idea and philosophy about how his teams should play, but I am particularly interested in how he manages to motivate and inspire his players - many of whom are superstars in their own right - to work so bloody hard when they don’t have the ball, like maniacs really, for 90 minutes game after game, season after season.

To give an insight into this, these are some quotes from their experienced hard-nut midfielder, James Milner, over the past week on Klopp's exacting training standards, focus on running and intensity, and how he changed that side of LFC's game overnight (even though the skill side of things and quality ball-use took longer):

Asked about Klopp's intense training sessions, Milner said [my emphasis in bold]: “We had to adapt to that - there were a lot of injuries early on. People were saying, 'You can't do that!' You could, you just had to get used to it. Straight away you saw the tempo and the intensity in that first game at Spurs. 

"It was ridiculous really, it wasn't like we played at a slow tempo under Brendan [Rodgers]. That journey started then with the manager's methods and how he wanted us to play. 

"You saw it come in bit by bit. One week the quality would be there and the next week we would be miles off it."

And this, spoken in the immediate aftermath of their Premiership victory:

"He [Klopp] is right up there at the top, if not the best. How he goes about training is different to anything I've done before.

"Never do you have a session when you are in auto pilot. Everything is about reacting to the next situation.

"He has a good relationship with the players and knows when a rocket is needed. He is very good at taking other opinions on board. The team always comes first.

"How we play as a team is different to how I have played anywhere else. If one player doesn’t do his job, the whole thing breaks down. That is down to the characters he has put together."

I want my Melbourne team to be as relentless, as cohesive, as driven and work as consistently and as hard as LFC, with all players held to the same standards and expectations, especially around defence, which everyone can do no matter how skilful or highly-paid you are. I want to see and feel that ‘the team always comes first’. This is all a supporter really wants from his/her team, isn’t it? But this is not what I’m seeing at the moment, and that in turn is driving me - and others no doubt - away from this once-proud and fierce club (at least, so my dad tells me), despite there being stuff-all else in life to look forward to in this dreary, and increasingly scary, locked-down world.

On 11/18/2019 at 8:38 PM, Deemania since 56 said:

Stanley the Alves, wore No.15 with pride and was the complete wingman. Good choice for Langdon. (Stan also had the best blind turn and run-around balk - at top speeds - than anyone I have ever seen on the footy field. No sheet!)

Robbie’s for me

8 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

Because, Hogan aside (with his unique situation), the last time we had someone leave Melbourne to go 'home' to WA was Jeff Farmer and Troy Longmuir ... nearly 20 years ago (2000 and 1999). The last player to go 'home' anywhere was Scott Thompson in 2004. 

As a risk it's way over-played, particularly for players leaving Melbourne.

Over-played or not, it’s real.

Ask any of the clubs in the so-called non-football states, where player retention is and has been a huge issue. Look at the raft of concessions the AFL has given these clubs over the years to mitigate this risk, including granting GCS pick #2 this year so that two Vic-based best mates can stick together, support each other and stay at the club.

As for the Demons, yes, Thomson and Hogan are indeed two great examples of MFC ‘high-end talent’ wanting to leave the club and go home. And, for many Dees’ supporters, their cases alone provide enough of a cautionary tale - and they should.

Looking at the recruitment of our last 25 high draft picks (i.e. Round 1, priority and mini draft) over the past 20 years, Thomson and Hogan represent almost 30% (2 out of 7) of those taken from outside Victoria. All seven, and their outcomes, are listed below:

2000: S Thomson (SA) - went home, traded to Crows end of 2004

2002: D Bell (SA) - delisted end of 2010

2002: N Smith (SA) - delisted end of 2006

2007: C Morton (WA) - went home, traded to Eagles end of 2012

2009: J Trengove (SA) - delisted end of 2017 (picked up by Power as DFA)

2012: J Toumpas (SA) - went home, traded to Power end of 2015

2012: J Hogan (WA) - went home, traded to Dockers end of 2018

On the face of it, then, 5 of our 7 high draft picks from interstate since 2000 have ended up playing with a club in their home state. 

Now, I won’t claim that Morton, Trengove and Toumpas are the greatest examples of the go-home factor at work, but the other two, yes. And those two (Thomson and Hogan) just happen to be the best of the lot.

MFC no doubt know all this (and more) and - it appears - are willing to take the risk with Jacko.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I said very few, not none.

Franklin didn't go home, so he's irrelevant to the go home factor.

Kelly had a partner, 3 kids under 5 and two with Autism. In a fairer world he never would've been drafted interstate to begin with. In fact had there been live trading I think he would've been treated like a defacto academy player and had the WA clubs trade up for him once he got out of the first round.

Cripps, Rich, Duncan, Conigilio, Harry Taylor, Cale Hooker and so many other good WA players have had long careers at one club and others like Cameron, Franklin and O'Meara have had their reasons to move to different non WA teams.

Unless there's significant family pull or circumstances the go home factor is minimal for happy players.

I’d say more than a few.

And don’t under-estimate the amount of time, effort and money clubs put into potential targets to come back to their home state. It’s a compelling selling point.

The last three free agency / trade periods have included the following player movements, where one could easily argue the pull to go home played an important  - perhaps the dominant - role in that player’s decision to move states:

2017: Schache, Weller, N Wilson, B Matera, Gibbs, Lever, Saad, C Cameron, D Smith, Ablett, B Ah Chee, J Trengove, Crozier

2018: Conca, T Lynch, Lycett, Newman, Shiel, Colyer, Hogan, Lobb, Mayes, Scully, Stengle, Scrimshaw, Setterfield, Hannebery, Rohan, Pittard

2019: Tomlinson, T Kelly, E Langdon, Betts, Patton, Howard, Z Smith, A Keath, T Cutler, Z Jones, A Bonar, Acres

For me, the go-home factor (and why, by the way, should that exclude ‘significant family pull or circumstances’ - isn’t that what it’s all about?) is a legitimate concern to have with the recruitment of Jackson. And that’s not just because the Hogan experience is still fresh. Jackson, as talented as he is and as good as he may become, appears to be the kind of player who will take years to reach his potential, by which time the lure to go home may well be irresistible.

1 hour ago, Colm said:

Dunno why there isn’t more chat here about a split with the cats. Their list manager came out and said there’s s player in the draft they like and the only way to be sure they get him is to have pick 3( or something to that effec). They have 14, 17 and 24 at the min. Prob not what we want but if 17&24 could be turned into a top 10 then happy days. 

We need to be talking to them regardless even if it’s just to force GWS hand. 

Agree, I think if we were to split our pick 3, the Cats would probably be involved. On a pure swap of these picks:

Melb pick 3 = 2,234 pts

Geel picks 14 and 17 = 2,186 pts

If it were to happen, might be some haggling over later picks to even the ledger.

Good to catch up today, @Return to Glory

With Burgess on board, top 4 next year, mate. You gotta believe!

Enjoy Tokyo. If you can, visit an old haunt of mine, Inokashira Park. A welcome oasis in the concrete jungle.

23 hours ago, TGR said:

I wont be.  A slow list recruits Lewis and gets rid of Frost.  Says it all.

This draft is weak too come 2nd round I hear.  

You continually impress me with your ingenuity (and absolute bloody mindedness) in including a derogatory remark about Lewis and/or his trade - no matter what the topic - in almost all of your posts (or at least the ones I happen to stumble across).

As that trade fades more into the distance (already three years ago, mind you), I’m just wondering who your new whipping boy(s) for the next few years will be. Ah wait, Lever or Preuss?

4 hours ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

He's got great training standards, and seems like a wonderful young man but just doesn't quite seem to be an AFL level player. he's a very good VFL player at this stage.

if you as an outside mid can't break into a side with no outside mids consistently you're maybe just not quite up to it.

Well, as his dad mentioned in his Demonland interview, Billy actually played his best junior footy as an inside mid and was recruited as such. ANB in a similar boat, I dare say. With our glut of inside mids, both have had to change the way they play, to varying degrees of success.

Comes back to the club’s laser-like focus over recent years on building the list from the ‘inside-out’. With the KK addition and current interest in Tomlinson and Langdon, it seems we have belatedly reached the ‘out’ phase of this list management strategy.

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Wrong.

Howe has never made the actual final All Australian squad. Hibberd has.

Think poster is referring to Hibberd and Oliver as All-Australians

Some great learnings here. I’m in agreeance with all of it, at a high level.

Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to talk to the slide to get a more granular view.