Engorged Onion

Well @Tony Tea it still sounds as though it’s about the potential for something to happen rather than it is happening. fWIW - I’m almost happy for him to go to merely prove the point to some posters that it’s ok to discuss hypotheticals, as sometimes those hypotheticals occur.

Setting a goal is not setting a standard, that's setting an expectation...it's fairly nuanced I get it... standards (in 2018's language) is about behaviours time and time and time again... set them high for sure..make people accountable for sure (see Watts, Garlett, etc etc) with an understanding that athletes are humans, and [censored] up as well...

Because it is not the reality of elite sport...that's why not. Because MFC don't operate in a vacuum, other teams improve for a variety of reasons, from technical, to tactical, to age, to experience, to what staff the bring on, to what players they bring, to the vagaries of umpiring, to how many times to effing play at kardinia park... etc etc Top 4 is a pass mark. But i'd like to distinguish between expectations vs hope. For all the reasons listed before, I'd hope we'd get top 4 - and I'd expect we comfortably make the 8, considering learning for the year and the demographic of our club. If we don't - it's not because 'we haven't learned', or thoroughly gone through things forensically', I see that as too simplistic.

Totally admit it... no issues there @Diamond_Jim - it's not just about preparation though, that's far too reductionist. Shall agree to disagree

In your opinion, leaning is only observed if performance occurs at a linear rate does it? So next year a minimum of 18 wins is a pass?

I find these sorts of comments really frustrating, as I'm fairly certain there is no response that would change your conviction, nonetheless here goes... Let's assume that they did prepare 'properly' as they did for the previous two finals. Does preparing properly mean that a whole range of things that occurred (missed handballs, slipping over, poor tackles/pressure etc etc), doesn't occur? Also, what does preparing properly look like to you @beelzebub in your day to day? Have you ever prepared properly, but because of someone else (or a range of someone elses) things didn't go the way you expected. Sometimes [censored] happens, and its got SFA to do with the preparation, it all to do with the execution under pressure. And sometimes (actually every time) exposure to an uncomfortable experience reduces the stress for the next time... It's to be expected to some degree that this happened as the players are a young young team, with no knowledge of playing finals...and probably had spent most of their petrol tickets over the previous 5 games.... I vehemently disagree with the 'preparation' problem...its too myopic.

dear god mate, you think they wont?

Totally pleased... I come here for the debate, and opinions, anything is fair go as long as it isn't bigoted. Mind, it feels for the some that the emotional cost to not potentially have Hogan is too much, that they can't even hear a 'pub type conversation' that is happening on an internet forum. I like you're first point though, perhaps you could post that...and then exit the thread? Because as you say, it's a total waste of energy discussing Hogan leaving/trading options etc, unlike the meta debate about whether Hogan role in the team is worthy of a trade is appropriate or not... as that is far more worthy of energy.

Why @Jaded, it is a forum after all. You don't have to open the thread.

Some people have great memories - which I for one, am thankful for as I don't remember the context of how teams track before premierships... I remember 5 years or so ago when Ken Hinkley got on board that Port were to be the next powerhouse... I fret the same will happen.

Sounds like you're still tired and emotional @TGR I agree with the sentiment on point one, and completely disagree on the latter two points. Point 1... If Stretch wasn't injured, I'd dare say he'd be the winger. Tyson I feel was insurance for the contested ball as well, and yes he's not a winger. Point 2 - Watch the Geelong and Hawthorn game... the team constantly goes on little 45 kick forays to open up space...this happens week in week out... If you mean switching RIGHT across the ground... we do it from time to time, but remember - our game style did get us to a prelim...so for what purpose does bringing in more switching mean? Part of our success has been able to get the pill to our players relatively straight in front...and the system seems to be about doing it more so from the centre of the ground, rather than within 60 metres and centering it. Point 3 - Watch how we iced games after the Geelong loss....particularly the Geelong and Hawthorn final... the last 10-12 minutes of each game was ALL about tempo football.

As devo’d as I am - and as amazingly awful/insipid as we are... I’m curious what will we learn? what about structures ? and heartbreak was going to happen... in this way it’s uber surprising - AND NOT representative of how we play... so it’s an aberration. we’re still a young young team - and tried to get on footywire for a breakdown - couldn’t find it. i get its emotional - and surprising - and aiming to be a voice of sense making.

Yeah, you're right @Clint Bizkit. I'm thinking in terms of this shift towards 'pre-agency' from clubs... He's one year off becoming a free agent (am I wrong on this?), andGWS may want to maximise their return...this year instead.

What would need to occur (or what is the chance) of prising J Kelly away from GWS this trade period?

I'd be backing the football department in, rather than raging about whether Fritsch or Tyson should have gone. They have a clear unemotional rationale, and after a while thinking about it, it makes sense to combat a forward line with a drifting Vardy as well with a combative, less then silky player of half back. It's a horses for courses decision, we have silk on two sides of half back with Salem and Hibberd, and Smith's athleticism in the air as well as his ability to halve contests will be vital. Mind you, Fritsch 'may be tired' and he may not... he did put his body on the line in a clutch situation and marked in front of Roughhead in the last, so it's not merely a combative style vs silk argument.

think Steve has crook knees at the moment...

so @Wolfturdo, in your view, what is a pass mark from an outcome perspective for smith?

truth be told...how nice it is to be in the position to have to make heartbreaking decisions...

Absolutely fire trucking powerful. I'm not a believer in motivational talks....but by jeez, this is compulsory ...and I hope the players have had a listen also.

hogan > may

you've been doing the last 8 years sober? masochist

who was it that mentioned Nicholls wouldn't get a game again? ?

@layzie...he doesn't need to be traded for Some people also like the issue of $ taken off the table... ie: "I want what I am worth on the market but prepared to take a little less + presumed success "(and that presumed success offsets the extra 100k,200k). He might be a 'thug' now but I don't think he is a mercenary... ? Anyway we will find out if @ProDee is accurate or @Grimes Times is, in around 10 days methinks...

what logic is that? from the outside there are pros and cons for him to stay, to shift elsewhere, or come to the dee's... all as logical as one another.

I've got a question around our 'process' of moving it into the forward line for a shot on goal. I'm not saying our current way is problematic (yes it can be tightened up) - but I recall very few long kicks for goal on the run from 50, or at least entering from 60/50. Are there any stats on, how many goals the team have kicked from beyond 50, or even 'streaming in' and kicking it between 50-40m. If we have variability in our style, does this add to the unpredictability (although it increases the risk of missing). Or with TMAC, HOGAN, WEID and Captain Sparrow... and that fact that we are the highest scoring side, and in a prelim - does it matter nought anyway..