Rodney (Balls) Grinter

Sounds like the Josh Mahoney podcast interview has already been recorded. So @Demonland, did you ask Josh how serous the conversation got to including Andrew Brayshaw as part of the Jessie Hogan deal?

Gawn is really a pretty good kick for goal (particularly for a ruckman). There was that absolute numpty of a kick after the siren in Rd 1 and one or two more similar to it in the next few weeks, but after that he tidied up his goal kicking nicely. He kicked a number of great goals in pressure times of the game from 40 - 50m out a number of times during the season and those two checkside/bananas from right out on the boundary against Essendon are ones that not even some forwards and mids kick reliability. Not only did Gawn nail that first on from the boundary against Essendon, but ten minutes later he went back and did it all again to prove it wasn't a fluke. The sledge he gave the Essendon supporter afterwards was pure gold and another 'Max Gawn Classic Moment'!

I know that he can kick a good goal on his day, but Trac has never given me the impression of being a confident or reliable goal kicker since he arrived at the club. He might have gone through a period here or there (2017 I recall he was fairly decient in patches), but that's about it. Based on that, I think it's entirely appropriate that he plays more within his capability and the teams game plan of finding players in better positions to kick goals inside 50.

Exactly. And if Garry wants to be true to the 'be like Gawn' comparison - he had two knee reco's and took a good half a dozen seasons to reach his full potential. ...don't really wish that on Trac. I'm not so sure that this was as much about loosing confidence as it was about playing to team rules/system. Whilst he certainly didn't kick many/any big bags, I think Trac certainly used the ball well inside 50 to give it off to team mates in better positions. This is typical of the play of many of our other top forwards like ANB, Melksham and even guys like Tommy regularly give off to the higher percentage option than go for the kickable but lower percentage goal themselves. A lot of perceptions around this call Garry has made and others hint at, so I'll add some of my own. He's certainly an extraverted, confident character Trac, but I also sence a ultra compeditiveness that wouldn't be satisfied with being an average player in a good side, so I don't have too many concerns that he wouldn't be seeking advice from all his relevant peers, coaches and fitness staff and pushing himself to become the champion he believes he can be in his own mind. The other thought that comes into my mind is a quote from Paul Roos or someone that after players are drafted, the number they are picked at becomes irrelevant. Whilst we all want Trac to become an absolute champion of the game that would somehow justify that pick 2 selection, I'd be quite happy for the rookie Harms to become the champion player like Sam Mitchell was for the Hawks, whilst Trac is just plays a solid team role in the next MFC premiership team.

Agreed. I have high hopes that we will get good value out of our ealier picks, it's just that speculating on who they might be is fairly frivolous. Who knows what Taylor and other clubs recruiters are actually thinking and who is left by picks in the 20s.

I prefer the red back jumper to us wearing white Bali clash singlets any day, but it is definitely still a third preferance behind the traditional and royal blue. I actually find the all red back looks a little strange from side on, a bit like it's two different jumpers sewn together up the middle of the sides. I almost prefer a totally inverted predominantly red jumper with either a navy blue V or MFC logo in the rare instances where both our traditional or royal blue jumpers were not given the ok but the league.

Wikipedia lists it as "played 12 matches for Melbourne in 2009 but only two in 2010, playing the rest of the season with the Casey Scorpions and winning their player of the year award that year. At the end of the 2010 season, Cheney was traded to Hawthornalong with pick 66 for pick 52." Perhaps not quite moved on, but more a case of accomodating his desire for more opportunities elsewhere. Pretty much fits with my recollection that we probably assessed him and wrote him off as being a bit of a nearly, but not quite good enough. His track record since has somewhat demonstrated this to be the right assessment and I guess he could be categorized as the classic frindge player. My take would be that good teams can probably afford to carry a few fringe players for depth if they come at the right price and character propersition. We probably already have a few in this boat, with Stretch, JKH, Wagner and perhaps some others, so I'm not really sure that we'd want to take on Cheny as well from that perspective. Thinking about things further, I wounder if the mid season draft has put less of a premium on depth, which clubs will try to exploit to get more young developmental tallent on their lists

All the media types put out their top 30 draft picks or whatever. I wonder how many of them actually have the inside intel on character etc that top recruiters like Taylor and clubs like the MFC seem to use to heavily influence their recruitment decisions. I doubt many do. Must say unless we had picks in the first half a dozen, I find it had to engage with this pre-draft speculation on who goes when and goes to who. Even then, when it seems to be more obvious, clubs pull unexpected moves like McCartin and Oliver.

If you read my other post in this thread, I think we are on the same wavelength on this DV.

So what you are saying is that we need a backup for the backup ruckman? Not sure that AFL lists are big enough to enable that luxury these days. I know we sort of had that when we had Spencer to some extent, but I think allowing Pedo to retire was a fair sign that we don't think we wanted to go back there. I haven't paid too much attention to what this mid season draft is all about, but I'm wondering if the opportunity that could present to pick up the best/ in form state league ruck in case of an emergency is something that factors into all this?

I think it's a bit more than hope. We have picked up some pretty good players with late picks and I think they would have been pretty purposefully selected. Their is a certain amount of hit and miss at all stages of the draft.

Agreed Roos and most good recruiters mantra is more or less pick best available at the draft and trade to fill in the gaps based on needs.

With the club's first few picks, yes, I think you would pick 95% based purely on best available. By the time you are getting into later picks, the perceived difference in talent, cultural fit etc probably plateaus out and that's when you'd try to pick based on needs. Of course if you the best available at an early pick also aligns with needs, then that's the ideal scenario. I wouldn't be against us drafting more quality inside mids, somewhat for the purpose of evening out our age profile a bit for future years. No doubt Jones will play that role less and less and if we have another young guy that can work himself into an inside mid role over the next 2 or 3 years, then who knows, maybe we can free up Oliver or Brayshaw to spend more time forward (particularly against lesser sides) and prolong their career a bit. Bradtke is probably ok as a project ruck at the moment, but I recon if there was someone we rated, we could probably use another on either the main or Rookie list.

That was more or less my thinking. I feel that loosing Vince, Pedo, Bugg, Kent and with the prospect of Lewis slowing and potentially getting injured in his sunset years does leave us a little exposed for mature, experienced players. From what I've observed, Cheny probably isn't a superstar, but is a pretty solid, reliable type and has only just turned 29. Whilst he was probably never quite in their best 22, Cheny obviously knew what was required and executed well when called up as a backup player for several top teams in Hawthorn (during their prime) and Adelaide. I paid a bit of attention to him when I re-watched our 2018 away game Vs Adelaide the other night and he had pretty tidy foot skills, made good decisions with the ball and has always been a pretty tough, hard and tenacious defender like Nev. Assuming we could sign him on for a reasonable price, he could be both a good insurance policy and also a mentor down at Casey. I guess Wagner, JKH and Keilty and Petty would be the other depth backline players we have, but none of them would have the same experience as Cheny and all could probably benifit from playing beside him at Casey. Don't know if he is future coaching material or not. Part of me also likes the sentiment of him ending up back in Red and Blue, since I always thought when we moved him on, that he was a goer, which I think has been somewhat proved since.

According to the new 'Mumford Rule' any one of the AFL's pet expansion teams that has a list need, may create a new rule to enable them to aquire that player through whatever means possible. Will really get on my nerve if this transpires. I was really hoping GWS were going to struggle to put up a credible ruck option. As an asides he does play pretty angry Mumford - he has taken white line fever to a whole new level.

Just throwing out a bit of a curve ball - what about getting back Kyle Cheney to the MFC for small backman depth?

You mean we have escaped from 'The Twilight Zone!'.

If we are playing the sort of footy that puts us in premership contention, I really don't think it matters who we double up on as we should be better than 50/50 against the best sides. It's also a double edge sword in a good way. Every time we play a good side, it's also a chance for us to deny them 4 points as well. In the context of playing Adelaide twice last year, our two victores against them essentially kept them from playing finals.

...because watching the side get smashed in an empty stand was more fun? Hmmm

Rd 2 - BAM

Agree with 90% of what you are saying here, but I really do feel like we have been short changed for Jesse, based on the hit and miss rate of KPPs in the draft. A proven commodity should always be worth more than an unknown. Just look at Josh Schache and Tom Boyd as two virrually failed top draft pick KPPs. Yes we got May, KK and a little bit of loose change, but I recon that in the scheme of things: 1. Freo got a bargain; 2. We got somewhat short changed and; 3. The Suns got completely shafted. Basically they got pick 6 for x 2 top 10 club B&F players - one a pretty solid defender and the other a running player who has been a bit patchy for the last few years (like if we traded Brayshaw at the end of last year). Pick six could be the next Lucas Cook, just an average on baller or a pretty remote possibility of being a superstar - more than likely it will be one of the first two. I don't buy the injury doubt thing. Not only have Freo got a known commodity, but compared to a raw draft pick, they have also got a player with half a dozen years devopment already put into him and raring to go in his prime physical maturity for a KPP. I still hold the view that free agency has skewed the system way too far in favor of players, because the club that recruits them doesn't have to give up anything with respects to draft value. Would the Tigers have thought twice about Lynch if they had to give up their first and second round draft picks for him? The draft has become broken as an equalisation tool when players can serve a few years on a list and then walk to basically anyone they chose to as occurs these days.

Don't think this warents a seperate thread, so this is probably as good a spot as any: https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/10/30/who-was-st-kildas-real-best-recruit-of-the-off-season/ Think Timmy may be onto something here. My old man had the view that Brett Ratten was a pretty good and influential assistant coach during his time at the MFC - thoughts?

I'd say that's a fairly accurate assessment. I can't see why Carlton could be so high, surely they would be keeping things pretty low key and moderating expectations from where they are at. I agree that 3rd would be reasonable for where we sit hype wise, weren't actually sitting in top spot for hype. Perhaps is because I'm cautious by nature, but I'm a bit concerned that we are actually over hyped. Quite conscious that as good as we have looked at times and as much as we have improved, have a quality young list etc, that taking those next steps of being a genuine flag contender are fraught with peril. The Port Adelaide story from 2013 when they pushed Hawthorn within a few points of making a GF, and subsequent narrative was they had this great young list full of potential etc and the the failure to deliver since. Bulldogs the other example. Were going to have an ultra compeditive team for the period following their flag, but have similarly fallen off a cliff. Would rather the hype follow the MFC retrospectively after we have delivered the flag.

Agree. Will be over half a decade since we have played West Coast at the G.

I know next to nothing about Lovell, but will be interesting to see if we can turn around the career of a few truely recycled players over the next few years. We seem to have been good at picking which established players to trade for (Melksham, Hibbard, Lever, Lewis to an extent and hopefully May, KK) and also the state league (AVB, Hannan, Freitch), but with the exception of Garlet, I can't think of any worth while and we have really struggled to recruit and turn around any real discards (McKenna, Balic, Mitchie, Aiden Riley). Hopefully perhaps Preuss might hopefully be considered a good selection of a recycled player for us in much the way Martin did for the Lyons or Dunn for the Pies, but it would be good if we could get a few more bargins that turn into solid players, even if they are just affordable depth.