stevethemanjordan

Am I the only one who thinks that this is the most overtalked and overrated piece of play around these parts? The way posters talk about it is as if it was the making of Brayshaw. He read the flight of the ball well and made a decision to intercept mark the ball. It's no surprise he shot past several Geelong players on the way through due to the fact that they were running the opposite way right up until he marked it... And as for the kick, it was just a long kick to a 200cm giant. If you look at the replay closely you'll realise that the kick isn't actually really to the advantage of Spencer. I consider Spencer's mark the most impressive part of the play. Because it was an extremely fortunate mark. It just stuck to his mits. Anyway. Regardless of all of that, I'm confident Brayshaw will be a player in time. And believe like Roos, he is a pure ball winning mid and will be of most value when he's moved there full time.

* I want to preface this by thanking whoever the legend was that changed all demonland txt to 'bold'... Now I can't use my signature highlighting tool. A couple of points to your post. Firstly, the fact we conceded nine points more again doesn't tell the full story. What was the opposition inside 50 count average from 2014 onwards for example? That is a much better stat if you're choosing to continue to use them. It's about how much ball they were both exposed to and I don't need to tell you not every forward entry results in any score. There are useful stats as you've mentioned that coaches use and there are pointless stats used completely out of context by a football supporter. The numbers comparison game that posters are playing to determine 'who is the better player' being the latter. I don't buy it. It's the same as when posters were thinking we'd struck gold when Gysberts got close to the thirty possession mark in his first three games. Some supporters get way too sucked in by numbers and that's what has happened here. And as for the draft number, the following is exactly the type of context that is relevant for the stat (that you think is useless). - Both drafted in the 2014 draft as key position defenders. - Lever missed the entire 2014 year due to an ACL injury but still went inside the top 15 of that year. He was an underage Vic Metro player and the captain of his TAC cup side and had an incredibly strong 2013 year. Oscar started his 2014 year as key forward, was overlooked for the national carnival and played as a key defender for the second half of the year to come into contention as high as the second-round but ended up going in the third round. - Generally, a pick number will give a fairly good indication of the quality of one key defender who goes in the first-round compared to one who goes in the third-round, unless of course there has been a significant injury/special circumstance that has meant one player has had less exposure than another. Lever in this case was the one who spent his entire draft year having not played a single game. Yet he still went at pick 14. Oscar had no injury and only switched to defence in the second half of the year. This is a fairly strong indication of who the better player is. Without having played a game of league football. Single attributes alone, Lever has him covered in almost every aspect of the game and only Melbourne supporters would tell you otherwise.

^ For all of those who look at the above and and conclude that Oscar is at the same level as Lever as a player, do you consider the following: In which teams defensive 50 has the ball spent most time in over Lever and O-Mac's career? I would almost certainly say ours. Which most obviously means Oscar will see more opportunity of gaining kicks, handballs, disposals, tackles etc ect. I never really understand why posters provide stats like that, given they're playing in two different teams that have been at opposite ends of the ladder for the past three years. Anyone that has a decent eye for the game with a balanced view would agree that Lever, (after an ACL comeback pre-draft) is a significantly better and more talented player than Oscar, even if his numbers don't show it yet to the stat obsessers. That's not even considering where they went in their drafts. Again, Lever was touted as a top 10 pick pre-injury. Oscar had no injury problems and went at 50-odd.

If the thread/discussion re: Lever is of no interest to you, why do you feel the need to comment? This is a [censored] supporters forum. What part of that doesn't compute for you?

@McQueen - Because I saw the article floating around and thought I'd share it as a point of discussion. I too think offering up Brayshaw is going a bit far. There's a whole lot of untapped potential there, although I do think many demonanders believe him to be something that he's not; that being a classy and skilled user of the footy. Gussy will be part of a top five most important players in a couple of years, I'm sure of it. His attack on the ball, man and ability to mark above his head are his strengths. He is dual sided, but definitely not in the Mitchell league. It's an area he needs to clean up though, for sure. I'm sure most are aware of the fact that we'll need to keep as much of our core together as possible to have a shot at the flag. Our core being Hogan, Weeds, Viney, Salem, Petracca, Oliver, Brayshaw, Hunt, Stretch etc. So if we were going to go after Lever, we'd be offering a fringe player and some future picks including a first rounder. Anyway, too early to speculate but he's definitely a player I'd love at the club. I heard Mahoney saying not long ago that we have saved coin to lure someone at the right time and when I look at our list, I believe we're another quality tall defender short and perhaps a classy and skilled power running mid short.

Prepare for the storm that is about to rain down on you.

If we wanted him that badly and he was keen on coming back to Vic/us, we'd be able to satisfy the Crows. Let's hope his girlfriend decides she wants to come back home because that- as he states- (along with family) will be the deciding factor. I think we're two players short of being a well balanced list. Another quality key defender and a Josh Kelly type of mid. (Someone with silky skills and a tank).

Lever waiting on CBA before signing contract Get. Him. Here. 2018 backline: FB Jetta Lever Hibberd HB Hunt T-Mac Salem/Vince/Lewis/Jones

History and therefore evidence suggests that the vast majority of finals and especially Grand Finals are won from hard/strong inside contested ball kings. Plays and situations where heavy packs of players are trying to win first possession. You've named an outlier in Johannisen winning the Norm-Smith one year. Usually it's influential combative contested ball players or mercurial forwards who take out that award. Hardly speculation. It's not that I don't rate Parish, I'm simply saying I'd rather head into a Grand Final with Clayton Oliver starting in the guts over Parish if I had a choice. No, we're not. And I agree with Parish being a stronger inside player than Toumpas. Only because of his tenacity. But again I'll stress that the heat of a final or grand final is at an entirely different level. I'll also add that a contested possession is another 'stat' that can be misleading. Just like a clanger. I won't post it here, but you should have a look at what counts as a contested possession these days. My argument is that Oliver is bigger, stronger, more aggressive, is as clean/or cleaner with his hands and has a far better chance of marking the ball in a contested situation than the smaller Parish. All of these things point to him being the more influential player in a final, given the way finals are usually played.

All I think and care about with this kind of comparison (Oliver/Parish), is who would be more likely to be the better player under the heat of a final. And for me, Oliver wins without question. Generally finals and especially grand finals are scrappy contested affairs and Parish is exactly the type of player who'd be caught out in that type of environment. He is 180 cm and will never be in the build of Nathan Jones. He'd purely be relying on the heavy lifters to get the ball out to him and whilst he may have that rare ability to kick a classy goal when it's most needed. Oliver would be right in the coalface from the start making it happen.

Clarry is an extractor and his vision and peripheral awareness reminds me of Mitchell's. He nearly always gives a release handball to the player in most space every time. The fact he possesses that sense of calmness and composure at his age is phenomenal. Petracca is similar when he has the ball in close. Clarry can handball all he likes, it's always to the advantage of his teammates.

At least we got Pederson out of the trade. Rather than pick no. 12,000 like we did for Morton.

Disagree. Let's leave it at that.

That was one of several-hundred.

How about Aish/Toumpas/Morton for a knockout combo?

Bont without question

Nobody is the same. However, as our list stands right now, Tyson is the least versatile of all our mids and his inside work is hardly far and away better than any of Brayshaw, Viney, Jones, Petracca and Oliver. He may be more valuable once Jones retires. But Kelly would be of greater value to us going into the 2017 season. Nobody at our club possesses the running power or class of Kelly. (Hunt has the pace, not the endurance).

The trade was great for us at the time and was a no-brainer. But as our list stands right now, I'd have Kelly over Tyson. Kelly possesses attributes that our midfield sorely lack. And as good as Tyson is inside, we have a plethora of mids who are super strong inside. Would be a dream if were to land him. But I can't see him moving back home anytime soon.

Dat font tho...

[censored] Essendon

Good call, I've like some of his work this year. Reminds me a bit of Jake Lever in his build. Would happily rookie him.

If we see Garland traded this year, that has surely got to be the biggest fall from grace I've seen from any individual on the back of a three year extension deal. It's a real concern. Him and Dunn. I don't get it.

Post more please.

Here's an idea. Everyone shut the fark up about Heffernan on the Hibberd thread. Best.

[censored] Essendon. I hope we standup and play hardball on this one with Hibberd. I want the MFC to be the club that dictates the play. Too many times have I seen us be bullied by stronger clubs like Essendon. Makes me sick to the stomach.