stevethemanjordan

Sure we should enquire. But I'm talking more about the Dom Tyson types. I don't think O'Rourke is quite in the same class. But of course I could be wrong.

I know I've thrown the possiblity of going after O'Rourke, but there are plenty of other mids I'd want ahead of him. I'm no expert, but from what I've seen, there doesn't seem to be anything that overly excites me..

We are extremely blessed to have someone like Jones who Salem, Viney, Tyson and Toumpas can all look up to and learn from. I've never seen another player so determined to get the absolute best out of themselves year upon year. He is a genuine star.

Not all of them.. No.

Yes, fair I guess. I've just always felt he, out of all of them, could show something if given a clean run.

I don't get it, why?

Again, depending on which midfielders are available from other clubs, that will determine who on these recurring lists actually gets the flick.. I'd imagine Roos will want to top up again on midfield talent that has been in the system. Similar to Tyson. If we can get a hold of a midfield combo again of one or two young highly rated youngsters like a Shiel or O'Rourke plus another Cross or Vince type and then one or two mids from the draft, I genuinely believe there will be no point in persisting with any of the following: McKenzie, Evans, Blease, Strauss, Nicholson, Tapscott etc We've identified recruiters who know what they are doing, a coach and support coaches who know what they're doing so identifying, recruiting and developing talent will mean there is no need to try and squeeze the limited ability the blokes who just haven't come on have. No matter how hard they try. It's upgrading your list. And it must be done. Barry needs at least one or two more years. He's had nowhere near the opportunity those others have. Tappy is unlucky as I think he possesses some really strong attributes but it seems hard for him to stay on the park. I'm already excited about who we can bring in next year. I'm sure it'll be much easier to entice some players to join with the state of the list and how we're currently traveling.

Or if he was in a Melbourne jumper I'm sure you'd say something along the lines of: 'Barely had a pre-season, is clearly injured but is an absolute superstar. And lols at Jack Watts and anyone who'd even dare compare him to NicNat.' Am I right, am I right?

Still interesting he wasn't named in the best, is it not? Why would he not be in it if his report card says that he was in fact one of the best? You're a funny one BB. I know how much you love him. And rhino, I see those cheeky 'likes' of yours big guy.

Juice?!?!?! Lols

For all the 'number' lovers out there. McKenzie 35 possies = Can't get in the best Hopefully sheds some light.

Well clearly at AFL level you can and you have to. If not, Jordie would be the first picked every week wouldn't he.

Silly comment? Nobody, (aside from a Melbourne supporter) would consider either of those two elite kicks of the ball. Dunn may have an accurate long kick. However he is a very average shirt to medium kick as well as a questionable decision maker. Garland's ball use has improved but again, he is not an elite kick. Elite kick JR... Burgoyne Hodge Guerra (when he played) McKenzie (Gold Coast) Goddard Etc

It's definitely a worry. One thing we definitely lack is an elite user of the ball in our back six.

Perhaps. And perhaps not. It's very different now. Look at how well the whole team defend now. We still have Dunn, McDonald and Garland to take the big boys. Frawley's influence as a player at his age should be much more about setting an example, teaching the younger guys, being a real leader of the club. I don't see that in his nature and I never have. It's as if he's floated through his career and on game day he just 'gets the job done' kind of thing. He doesn't play with the same intensity Dawes does. I'm ready for new and fresh faces at the club. Players who haven't been part of the MFC conditioning. Of course it will be up to the club and Frawley. But in my view, if there's a player we think could be a real culture changer and leader at our club in the draft this year, I would much rather take the compo pick then to continue with a player who seems to be going through the motions when he plays.

Sure, but I'm interested in seeing the MFC become a powerhouse club and for that to take place, we need to have a list full of contributors. Again, I don't see the point in emotionally investing in individuals if we are to move forward as a club. I'm just stating the truth. Spencer playing as our number one ruckman reduces our chances of winning games, significantly. That's why I hope Jamar and Gawn stay fit for the rest of the year.

Having ruckmen that can offer more than just an 'admirable effort'. I hope to god these two stay fit and keep Spencer out for the rest of the season as he literally offers the team nothing.

It's the same with Reiwoldt from St Kilda... He said he'd never move to another club as winning a grand final with an opposition team just wouldn't be the same as winning one with the guys you have spent years with and formed such strong relationships with. If Frawley goes, it's for money. And if he says it's for success he is dumber than even I thought. Clearly we're improving as a team. And yesterday again proves playing without him is no big loss.

Your understanding of my 'argument' was that I put them in the same category.You can do all the changing of words you like BB, but if you go back to my initial post, all I said was that McKenzie, like Magner, Couch and Valenti are one-trick ponies. I am ignoring his avhievments because they have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Which is the here and now. Please shut up with the emotional fixation you have on the guy. It's clouded your view so much so that you misinterpret and make up what I'm arguing all because I don't value him as highly as you'd like me to. The end BB.

Different positions, different strengths, different ability. You've got to judge individual cases on their own. JKH has a lower centre of gravity and has played a lot more football than Barry who from what I know, switched sports later on in his schooling years. Two years isn't enough for someone of his level of experience, body size and understanding of what is required to make it. He is a similar case to Jayden Hunt and I'd be very surprised if he was delisted at the end of the year. Rookied, perhaps.

Agree with Bail and Terlich surviving. Spencer I'm not so sure. I know we have limited ruck stocks and Gawn finds it near impossible to string more than a handful of games together, but I'm hoping we can nab a ruckman at the end of the year. The others you mention are certainly not doing themselves any favours. I'm still hopeful for Tapscott. Another one who's never been given a clean run at it. Barry would surely be held on to for one or two more years. Came to the club as a stick insect and has shown some signs at VFL level. Remember that at very strong clubs, some kids don't get a look in until their third or fourth years in some cases. I think Barry will be given another contract.

Lord Jesus. My argument from the beginning was this: McKenzie is a limited footballer. The reason he was drafted is because of his manic ball winning ability, similar to Magner, Couch and Valenti. He is similar to them in that sense. They were all drafted on the back of that strong attribute. They are midfielders. They are ball winners. They don't provide much more. You say you've take the emotion out of it, yet you go on to provide a pointless list of 6 points as a means to argue that McKenzie is so much better than the three I compared his one strong attribute with. It's a simple case of you (and the likers of your post), rating him more highly than myself. Here is my rebuttal to some of your points: 1. Due to McKenzie's limited ability in most areas of the game he was made a stopper/tagger. One of his strengths is his tackling. I imagine he received those votes for tagging a player a couple of times. I would argue that there'd be several players who could also do a fantastic run-with role on an opposition player and providing they received the same support, could also receive BOG awards. Including the three I listed. Did they get an opportunity? No. However, Magner and Valenti received brownlow votes for winning their own ball as midfielders without run-with roles. Something I'd argue is harder to do than strictly limiting an opposition players influence on the game. 2. I wish now that I had said, 'Rarely kicks goals on the fly', or something like 'Is not known for hitting the scoreboard'. Of course you can find one goal he kicks on the run haha. I'm sure it was easy enough to find considering he never does it! (don't take that literally now BB). Again, further evidence that his skillset as an offensive player is NEAR non-existent. 3. Speaks absolute volumes of the quality of our list in 2011. If you are using that as evidence to suggest he is so much better than those other three I named, none of whom were at the club that year, (I don't think), then you are kidding yourself. What a ridiculous point. Our list was an absolute joke. Matt Jones finished top 5 last year I'm pretty sure. If Magner was on our list back then he would have possibly finished 1st going by your logic! McKenzie was drafted at a time where we happened to blood every young player we had including most of our top draftees. We all know what happened to many of them. For various reasons they were traded and delisted. McKenzie happened to be drafted at the right time. He has displayed attributes and a work ethic that players like Morton, Gysberts, Blease, Cook and Watts haven't displayed. He was at Melbourne at a time when we were the laughing stock of the AFL and because so many of our young players for various reasons did not display some of the qualities that McKenzie is known for, he is made to look a hell of a lot better to supporters like you. I appreciate his efforts. I appreciate the qualities that got him drafted. I see that he is limited as a player in the same way that Magner, Couch and Valenti are limited. They are all 'head over the ball hard-nosed and rough around the edges VFL footballers'. McKenzie was given the chance to become a run-with player and took a couple of admirable scalps. The other three were never given the chance to play a run-with role so we will never know. Which by your logic suggests that McKenzie is by far and away the superior footballer. I disagree. Enough.

Get [censored] we're likely to lose Hogan. I will murder someone.

I'll bite. I thought you would be one of the first to know that we have a completely new FD including recruiters and head recruiter. A new coach who is known to be one of the best player developers as well as George Stone. Another coach regarded as an elite player developer. There's a big difference Saty. We are no longer under BP and co with Moloney and Sylvia as our midfield leaders.

As a poster has already pointed out, Magner and Valenti both also received brownlow votes during their short stints at AFL level.I think I'd receive support in my comparison of McKenzie to those I mentioned in the sense that they're all one trick ponies. They don't offer enough as footballers and they share the same one attribute. Which is winning the hard ball. So the comparison is a lot closer than your ridiculous analogy suggests. He was sent back to Casey to try and develop and DISCOVER some attacking attributes. Rediscover? When have we ever seen Jordie burst out of a pack ball in hand to deliver down the throat of a forward? Or kick a running goal? We haven't ever. Some may argue that his role has never been to play the game in that way. But there's a reason why! He doesn't possess those attributes!! So yes, he's been sent back to Casey to try and develop a more rounded game. I can't argue or debate with posters like you or Saty. You develop such strong feelings for the individual that it blankets your view of his abilities as a player and his value to the team. I get that McKenzie is a love child of yours. I'm more interested in our club becoming a powerhouse again. It's a ruthless business AFL. I wish McKenzie all the best in his efforts to become a more rounded midfield. But the reality is that we're going to be continually injecting more and more quality over the next couple of years and he will be squeezed out. Wakey wakey.