stevethemanjordan

Stanton's worst performance for the year because of McKenzie's tagging job solely? Not helped by the fact that Jobe Watson was out? Yes, McKenzie limited Stanton's uncontested ball count numbers, something he thrives on. So well done to McKenzie for that. Is that what this thread is about? Congratulating him on everything he does, without a second thought? If so, I think I'm at the wrong place.

What, the example that Jones has been trying to set for how many years now? Clearly rubbed off didn't it.. Obviously in the meantime he'll be getting a gig here and there providing he 'plays his role'. But the point I'm making is that it seems Melbourne supporters have been used to shite for so long that they start to applaud passages of play and fundamentals of the game that should be expected.

All indicators are pointing at the MFC improving next year. With or Without Frawley. Sure I agree if we use the compo pick at the ND, then that player will not directly fill the structural hole left by Frawley. However, we'll have Hogan ready to come in. So there's your structural hole filled. Plus another top draft pick waiting in the wings under much better leaders, coaches and culture than what Frawley was exposed to when he came to us. There are a number of options available with the compo pick we'll be getting if - hypothetically speaking - Frawley decides to leave and my belief is that whilst I'm sure the club would like to hold onto him, it will be no big loss with him gone because of the potential to nail either a fantastic mid or player, trade for a couple of solid role players or go to the draft with another first rounder. Nobody would have imagined our backline would cope this well without Frawley being down there but look at what has happened? Dunn is playing the role better than Frawley. He's taking the big boys but also being damaging on the rebound and as our kick in general down there. Our defence is just as solid without him and whilst it's helped by the fact that our defence as a team has improved significantly, it still shows that Frawley is easily replaceable. And that our team will not suffer without him. He has been shifted forward obviously to cover for the absence left by Clark and Hogan. Again, his job at times has been admirable, but I've already mentioned we'll have Hogan back before long to take that position. Which leaves Frawley to either go back to full back, or continue to take a post in the forwardline. My question is as follows. If he decides to leave for the money, do you not think that with the return of a first round compo pick, our club will not be able to add even more potency to the list next year to improve our side further? Keep in mind Hogan will be taking the position Frawley is currently sitting in. It's as if you think there's nothing in it for us if Frawley leaves. Read above. Please, give the stats a rest. His value to our list as stated by many demonlanders is grossly overrated. I stick by that. He's a player that goes through the motions. In the same way Sylvia used to. I'm sure you would have been in the 'Frawley's absence in our backline will be telling'. Full back is his natural position and the position that earned him AA honours one year. Do you not think we'll be fine without him next year once Hogan comes in? That's what I'm interested in here. Not his [censored] stats. Yes, you've really nailed it... Look outside your little demon box Machsy. There's a whole world of opportunities waiting big guy.

Obviously not if we don't get anything back for letting him go. But we will be won't we. A compo pick. Which will help in either trading for a seriously good mid. Or going to the draft again with another opportunity to strike gold. And we know with our current recruiting team, our chances would be fairly good you'd think.. We will be a better team next year. Without Frawley.

This line by Frawley really proves how little he thinks before he speaks... "At this club we've seen massive improvement over the last few years and if we keep going in the right trend, we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon." I don't know what improvement 'over the last few years' he's talking about. Does anyone else? As for Finals, I'm pretty sure he said the lure to leave is from the possibility of playing finals football. Yet he says in the quote above, 'we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon'. The bloke is an airhead and definitely an overrated player. One year All Australian full back and y'all call him a superstar. Dunn might get it this year, I wonder if he'll suddenly rise up the charts. He can go. His worth to us as a leader and culture changer is non-existent and his onfield performance is grossly overrated. We need players that can change our club, and if Frawley goes, our chances of nabbing one improve greatly.

I would have laughed if I were Jordie also. Scoring involvements ? Like the one where he happened to be at the fall of the ball when Frawley went up for the mark on the wing and he gave off a one-two handball to Frawley and then off to McDonald? Are we watching junior footy or something? Are these aspects and fundamental skills of our game not expected? I'm so confused... I'm sorry but if a couple of handballs during passages of play that happen to result in goals are congratulated by supporters, it really shows how shite a footy team we have really been over the last near decade. In two years, McKenzie will not be getting a gig, and we won't congratulating players who happened to get a couple of handballs off during passages of play resulting in goals. And it's going to be brilliant.

Hahahahahahahaha Amazing.

Sure. I also noticed Watts lead so hard and fast in the last 5 minutes when we were UP. When we were WINNING. They need to be able to run just as hard when we're losing, or when chasing an opponent also. You're talking about half a quarter of footy where we turned it on and making mention of Frawley's body language. Did you watch the first half? Again, myself and those I went with last night noticed that Frawley still doesn't get it at times. I'm over people defending the guy. Like he's some untouchable. He needs to take a leaf out of Chris Dawes' 'effort and presence' book. He looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane. We need consistent effort and presence from him at all times, and we're not getting it.

Fair enough.However, you haven't made mention of his efforts onfield so far this year. How would you assess his performances? I'm talking about his intensity and willingness to work as hard as he can for the side. His onfield leadership.

Well your mate must be about the only Hawthorn supporter to think so! He was a dead eye dick with his disposal and regularly went for the riskier targets. He was a beautiful kick.

I'm sorry TFH, but you are simplifying the modern game in a big way. There's a reason Hawthorn have been the benchmark team over the last few years. I suggest for you to find out why.

? Are you saying any backman in the AFL that has great kicking and decision making skills should be a forward? This is the AFL in 2014. Not the AFL in the 1950's.

We've got a backline full of questionable kickers and decision makers. If we had a guerra, birchall, Suckling, Malceski etc then Tommy wouldn't be asked to take the game on as much. But we have pretty much next to nobody who has the confidence nor ability to split teams open with great decisions or disposal and that's what ultimately lost us the game against Collingwood.

I think supporters who have a deep care and connection to the club have the right to feel agitated and fed up with the way in which Frawley is dealing with the contract situation at large. There are many reasons why and here are a few. - Frawley's obvious brain fades on game day. Whether it be missed sheppards, pathetic chasing efforts, attempting to chest mark the ball rather than reaching away from his opponent to give himself a better chance to mark the ball, etc etc. - The fact his initial comments about putting contract talks on hold were purely to do with him wanting to know the club was headed in the right direction and that Roos was going to hang around. - His (more recent) continual automated dribble stating his love for the MFC, loyalty as a country boy etc which is only further adding unnecessary pressure to the situation as it's clear we're improving dramatically under Roos, which is the reason he initially wanted to hold off on talks. It's not just a simple, 'I'm putting off talks until the end of the season'. His effort in games in comparison to other 'leaders' of our club has been very questionable and it's extremely disappointing from a supporters point of view. His remarks about the contract, reason he was holding off etc have caused further debate because it's clear we've improved and to me it's really disappointing that his output and effort onfield to perform acts of pressure for the team speaks volumes of where he's at in his head. You don't see that with Dawes do you. I find it more baffling that yourself and Machsy continually talk down the whole situation. We're a club on the up. Frawley needs to keep his mouth completely shut and give the media nothing when they ask and display performances that reflect where his head and heart are at for the time being. It's the absolute least he can do, and he isn't doing it.

The reason we lost today was solely to do with decision making, hitting up targets and getting the ball moving forward quickly. McKenzie's three weaknesses. Why are people calling for him to come in? Kent would make much more sense. Goal sense, kicking ability and ability to break the lines.

Umpires are hardly the issue.. The very reason we lost today was because few of our players had the trust to hit up a short target and get the ball moving forward quickly. Whether that's confidence alone or going against coaching orders I have no idea but it was clear that's the reason we lost. The amount of pointless kicking backwards and sideways was baffling. To the point where sometimes players weren't even looking forward for the first option. Coaching? Players? I reckon we still have some slow minded and average skilled players. Still a problem.

As we all know, his effort is never questioned. But now we have a midfield of players who's efforts match that of McKenzie's and a footballing ability that surpasses his also. So unfortunately for him, (but fortunately for our club) he is being squeezed out.

I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere on here, but that passage of play last weekend with Toumpas in which he ran from the left side of Jimmy all the way to the right to not only shepherd, but knock Ebert to the ground and then run on and receive the ball was the most significant and exciting thing I've seen from a player at the MFC for sometime. And he is a first year player. Sacrificial acts for the team like those in which Salem regularly executes have been sorely missed at our club for far too long and I'll go as far to say have contributed and filtered through to the rest of the players and the environment. Never in years gone by would Brad Green, Cam Bruce, Col Sylvia, Moloney, etc ever even consider taking out a player in manner in which Salem did in that passage of play. They all would have stayed boundary side of Toumpas screaming for the forward handball until the youngster had to pass it for fear of getting a mouthful from a 'senior leader'. The fact that Salem's instinct was to shepherd first, then push forward as an option is something that will stick in my mind for a long long time. To have that sense of team oriented play matched with the other unbelievable gifts and attributes he possesses is astounding. Salem and Viney both have that instinctive team first attitude. It's an absolute gift to have them at our club. Bring on the new breed..

Bang on. The signing is hardly a surprise considering our current ruck stocks. I'm hopeful we land another over the trade period..

So why has Dunn come out mid year to sign rather than waiting until the end of the year?It says something about the character and personality of the player. Last year with Watts and this year with Frawley are very different situations. The environment of the club is also very different. It's a very poor reflection on a guy who is one of our more senior and experienced players.

Honestly, I'm well over this Frawley situation. The guy is a pea heart and has very little going on up in that nogan of his. He is clearly being swayed by the opportunity of a big pay packet and being thrust in the limelight as a KP 'star'. His attitude is appalling for a player of his experience and age at our club. Take a leaf out of Dunn's book fcs James. If you want to show your commitment and your 'loyalty' as a player, what better opportunity than to do it at this stage of the season?! If you want to wait, stop banging on about how you love the club and are a loyal country boy. It's substanceless. He is really irking me now. It means his mind is not on the job. He is aware now that his form as an individual is going to help determine a pricetag. If he goes, I don't care because I'm hopeful we'll receive more than enough compo to cover him down the track. But I will vomit if I keep reading this automated dribble about his supposed love for the club and loyalty as a player.. Dunn has just set a great example of someone who genuinely cares about the club and his contribution to help build it. It makes Frawley look like a fool for saying what he keeps saying..

Patton probably least excites me most out of all the young forwards in the comp. I agree with AdamFar in that he's more your goal square monster. There's so much hype about his size etc but really, I haven't seen anything special about his actual footballing ability. His kicking is pretty poor and he still has no idea about work ethic, chasing etc. he reminds me of Tom Hawkins. Of course Tommy's rise has been accelerated due to the team of champions he was surrounded by and has runs on the board now. These kids dominate under 18's because of their sheer body mass and size but with Patton, I just don't see that he can offer a whole lot other than being a big body.. Of course I could be wrong and it's very early days, but if you're comparing the attributes both athletically and in footballing ability - Cameron and Hogan look like they have a lot more to offer than Patton. I ain't buying the hype yet and I reckon our KP stocks are fine at the moment. It's the midfield and half forward line where our problem still remains. Our inside 50 count is still hurting us. We're still not using the ball particularly well going in. With Hogan back hopefully from round 1 next year in the forward line, we certainly don't need Patton..

The effort may be there, but we simply don't have the cattle to execute the skill level to match a side like Port at this stage. If port play poorly, get on or two injuries which impacts rotations then we're a chance. Providing our intensity and skill level is sky high for the majority of the game. But realistically, no.

He was always 'rated'. It was his inability to stay injury free which meant we couldn't see him perform consistently but there were definitely signs from when he played at GWS. Now he's with us and has had a clean run we can see how good he is. O'Rourke is just genuinely struggling to get a gig in a midfield of youngsters that Have developed quicker or are better players. I'd say it's both.

He is the perfect example of a one-dimensional player who lacks in footballing ability. We still have far too many of them, and we don't need another. I'm over footballers who may be really fast or have terrific aerobic ability but cannot hit a target. That is Atley to a 'tee'. Sam Blease is our Atley. We don't need another.